killing people

[lenin]

didn't know which forum to post this in but i posted it here to get the commnist reaction to it.
if we are all marxists here, i presume we are all anti-religion. if we are anti-religion, we don't beleive in god, heaven, hell, purgatory, redemption and all that, right? so why is everyone so anti death on this site? everytime a stalinist suggests people 'deserving death' we get berated, why? if the death will benefit everyone else, why don't they deserve to die? why is human life so precious? if you stood on an ant, would you be grief stricken? theres no difference, an ant is a living thing too.
do you think killing someon will make you a bad person? in the eyes of who? theres no god to judge us comrades. we are born, we live, we die. as marxists, this is what we believe, correct? so what we do in our lives (be it 'good' or 'bad') has no bearing on where we end up, does it?
the truth is, human life is not as sacred as you think. because once we are dead, we don't know it! we are just gone! our goal as humans should be to make life better, if that means killing someone, then we should do it. of course, i am speaking in a purley governmental sense here and i am reffering to dissidents or enemies of the people, not just someone who fucked your wife or whatever.
opinions please.

[Edelweiss]

What's wrong with you, lenin? You are sick! Don't you have any morals by your own? Can't you differ right and wrong? How can you say anti-human bullshit like that? Do we have to expalin you the value of a human life? Maybe you should found a new Stalinist sect called "Communist Children of Satan" or something.

[lenin]

unfortuantly, this is the kind of responce i expected. this 'right from wrong' religious bullshit. right from wrong is a personal opinion. just because some guy who claimed to have the word of god says the 10 commandments, doesn't make it wrong. anyway, if you don't believe in god, you don't belive in 10 commandments, yes?

[Blasphemy]

did you actually read malte's post? "don't you have any morals of your own?"

YOUR OWN. not something dictated by god.

[lenin]

"We're a generation of love, not war."

lol, good signiture coming from an israli!!!!

[Felicia]

ftr, I avoid stepping on ants
Being Marxist doesn't mean being anti-human. Do you know anything about Marxism? Killing people should make you a bad person in the eyes of YOURSELF!!! It's about personal morals not religion. Unless ofcourse you're a sick f**k, which I assume that you are.

and what did you mean by "good signature comming from an Israli"?? How RUDE is that!!! Just because he (she?) is from Israel doesn't meen that they want to blow everyones head off (which I assume you wouldn't have a problem with!)!!!!! Stop making generalizations!!

(Edited by felicia at 5:38 pm on June 6, 2002)

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from lenin on 7:21 pm on June 6, 2002
"We're a generation of love, not war."

lol, good signiture coming from an israli!!!!


will "lets kill all the palestinians" be more appropriate in your opinion?

(Edited by Blasphemy at 8:06 pm on June 6, 2002)

[Supermodel]

If you read back over your own argument, you have it backwards. If there is no God, religion, or afterlife, the only thing that matters is the life here and now. Therefore the absolutely worst thing you could do is take someone's life away. Would you not consider it to be a fact that the worst thing that could happen to you in that scenario would be to have your own life taken away?

If there is no God, Religion, afterlife, right or wrong, I have the following points for you:

1. Che Guevara, a dead person, must have no meaning to you. Likewise Lenin. They're gone, how can they matter. How can it matter that they died. How can it be wrong that the Bolivians murdered Che.

2. If none of this matters, then why not just spend all your days masturbating?

3. God says you're a real jerk

4. If religion doesn't matter, why do you have opinions on Jews or Palestinians?

[lenin]

what i am basically saying with this thread, is that sometimes, people have to die. if it is for the good of the majority, they have to die. che and lenins death were not for the good of the majority.
would i not consider it bad for my life to be taken away? well, i'd be dead so i wouldn't know my life has been taken away would i.

"2. If none of this matters, then why not just spend all your days masturbating?"

i didn't say none of this matters. i wasn't philosophising or nothing. it does matter. this is why certain people should be killed, because it would be for the good of mankind.

"3. God says you're a real jerk"

the feelings mutual.

"4. If religion doesn't matter, why do you have opinions on Jews or Palestinians?"

i didn't say religion doesn't matter. i personally i am not religious but the majority of the world is. what does this have to do with anything?

what you have done is turn my post into a religious debate. my pesonal views are there is no god or afterlife. the closest thing i get to religion is slightly beleiving in re-incarnation. thats the only thing that makes sense to me.

anyway, what i was trying to say, is that all these liberal commies are berating us stalnists for killing people but some people deserve to die. its hard to explain over the internet.

[Blasphemy]

so let's just all kill ourselves. hey, we'll be dead so we won't notice it anyhow, right?

[James]

Whats wrong with it?

Well say if i killed you in a very nasty way. If you have any family/friends, who love you - they will be upset.

[evil chris]

suspermodel's first paragraphy somes it up well.As an agnostic i see the worst thing you can do to a person is kill them,to condem them to oblivon.

"i am speaking in a purley governmental sense here and i am reffering to dissidents or enemies of the people"

whats
your mandate bub?Who are you to call the enemies of the people.Your man Lenin called the Makhnovist peasent revolutionaries who defeated the invading forces in the Ukraine enemies of the people.Trosky later massacared them in violtation of treaty.Why? Becuase the saw the Bolshys as thugs,liars,murderers and crimminals.I agree with them and so deeply distrust all of their followers.
This makes me a dissident in your terms there.

Would you murder me Lenin?

Now i aint a pasifist by any stretch and their are certain people who i feel the world would be better off without.The murderous likes of Kissinger and Pinnocet but it takes alot to rile me up to this.

Why do we have this morality?
Becuase we are a social anaimal.We are not, at heart, justfying ourselves to God, we are justfying ourselves to our people.We cannot live as a community if we are stealing from each other and killing each other.Thats why Athists don't kill as a rule.

[evil chris]

blasphemy-don't talk daft lad.

[Blasphemy]

i'm just trying to show how ridiculous lenin is.

[lenin]

"Thats why Athists don't kill as a rule."

what???? stalin, lenin, hitler, mao, pol pot???? were these not atheists? and wasn't that timothy mcveigh guy a big atheist??

enemies of the people are enemies of the working class. fascists, bourgeosie, stauch capitalists etc. of course, if they just got on with there lives there would be no problem.

you distrust bolsheviks! and you have to ask me weather or not i would kill you??? i think you know the answer. maybe not straight away, but you would be a possible target.

again, this thread is meant as a responce to pacifist communists who say no-one deserves to die. blasphemy and supermodel are taking this the wrong way into thinking i am some sort of cult leader who thinks everyone should kill themselves! this is a political thread. i want to stay away from religion here becasue the thread was directed at marxists (who should be non-religious). i want to know why marxists are against killing political enemies.

[evil chris]

sorry blas.Wasn't sure how to call it.My Irony Counter ™ messes up on some of these poltics forums till i know what people are about

[I Will Deny You]

People don't only get their morals from religion. Some people don't need the threat of hell or the promise of heaven in order to be motivated to have morals. One huge problem with communists killing people for the greater good of society is that the "greater good" excuse is often bullshit. The White Army deserved what they got, but civilians who simply disagree with one single policy of the government (or are just the unlucky victims of Stalin's paranoia) don't deserve to die at all.

Lindsay

[evil chris]

" stalin, lenin, hitler, mao, pol po"

well thats 5 and with timo 6.
Now i havent killed anyone.And i just asked my dad.He claims not to have killed anyone.
None of the Seccular Society in Leicester i know have killed.To my knowalge.So thats about 8.Weight of numbers is on my side here if we're going to aruge in fruitloop world leaders vrs centre left people i know.

"you distrust bolsheviks! and you have to ask me weather or not i would kill you??? i think you know the answer. maybe not straight away, but you would be a possible target. "

so nice to be lumped in with facists, bougouise (why must they all die? ) and staunch captalists.
Thinly vailed threats and thinly vieled implaction and there is wonder why i distrust bolshys?

[lenin]

you idiot! i was using those men as examples. do you think they are the only people who were atheist who ever killed people? very few pecent of the world ever does kill people so how can you say 'numbers areon your side'?
you are no fucking leftist!!! you are a blatant anti-bolshevik!!!! you are a social democrat and therefore, you are a social fascist!!!! and i didn't say they all had to die, i said if they conformed and got on with there lives, they could live, but the bourgeoisie are the land owners, there lives couldn't just continue because they wouldn't own the land anymore!!! so they would become possible enemies of the people......like you!!!!


(Edited by lenin at 9:48 pm on June 6, 2002)

[lenin]

another thing for you tree huggers, if che guevara would have lived to see his dream of a latin american revolution, how many peopl do you think he would of killed to get to power, and to stay in power? i think we all know the answer would be a lot!

[Edelweiss]

lenin, you are talking all the time like a Soviet communist character does in one of these bad 80's US propaganda movies. :)

[lenin]

malte, even you have admitted that people like hitler should be killed. but why wait for them to get popular? hitler got in because of his great oritory skills, rather than let him speak, the germans should of killed him in the 20's! one life to save millions of innocents! what if another hitler style racist comes along and makes use of his 'free speech'? what do we do then? wait for another holocaust and say, oh next time we'll know better? the cancer needs to be stopped before it spreads.

[Supermodel]

You know Lenin, the dumb thing is that you are making points many have made on this site before but you're so busy trying to piss people off (or maybe it just comes naturally to you) that they fire off against you.

Basically you're an aetheist, may here are.
You support the death penalty, many here do.
You do not believe in life after death, I'm sure many on the board agree.
You squish ants, something I've had to do daily since the beginning of May.
You have no problem with someone else fucking your wife. Perhaps some members here might take you up on that.

See how easy it is to be charming?

Is your wife good in bed or would it be a crime aainst humanity for a C-L member to show her how it really works?

(Edited by Supermodel at 10:44 pm on June 6, 2002)

[Edelweiss]

I agree lenin, Hitler deserved to die. BUT what you said is basicly that everyone who slightly disagrees with the government should be killed. That's pure fascism!

[lenin]

not everyone who slightly disagrees. just blatant dissidents. if you are someone who disagrees and you just keep quiet, there would be no problem. but like i say, when someone with the speaking skills of hitler talks, the cancer can spread, so we must kill it immidiatly. the only people who would incure certain death would be, the previous rulers (depending on how bad they were), the fascists and the bourgeoisie (the ones that were in league with the previous rulers anyway).

[Edelweiss]

ok, I'm not against a violent revolution. But you call yourself a Stalinist, and Stalin killed also many people of the working class and didn't allowed any socialist opposition.

[pastradamus]

yeah good idea lenin,why dont i go kick ur ass to death & kill the "cancer" that is you.

[lenin]

malte, i am a stalinist but i do not agree with all of his policies. i agree with left opposition. i would of allowed trotsky to stay in USSR and formed a leftist opposition to stalin. not necessarily another party, but i would of let trotsky run for general secratary.
pastradamus, why don't you kick my ass to death? because you would fucking die trying you social fascist!!! i looked at you profile and it said, interests: social democracy. damn you!!!!

[marxistdisciple]

Geeze lenin, you must be angry today. I understand your point of you here. I'd just like to make a few points.

1) You say if killing dissidents for the greater good is not "wrong." Surely under communism "the greater good" and "wrong and right" is decided democratically by the people? Therefore, to kill someone you ought to have a referendum first.

2) You don't need to kill people to stay in power -example: capitalism (although this uses repression instead)

3) If you do kill people to stay in power, people will resent you, you will get attacked by many nations, and end up pushing up the dasies yourself while your successors wonder what went wrong. e.g. Hitler, Milosovich, Stalin etc. If there is one thing evolution has supposedly taught us....(albeit a few people still dont get it it) it is that killing people doesn't help politics.

4) Your opinion is entirely subjective. Have you ever killed someone lenin? Would you feel guilty if you did? Who decides what the "greater good" is? who decides what a "dissident" is? Why are their decisions right or wrong? All you speak of is dictatorship. That isn't democracy. That's ridiculous arrogance. How do you expect people to follow their leader if they don't agree with what he's doing?

5) Most people don't kill because they believe it is morally wrong. Religion or no. If you as a leader kill, when the majority of your citizans, (or quite possibly "subjects") disagree with your morals, then you have undeminded "democracy" already.

Don't bother to argue that communism isn't about democracy, isnt that the whole point in it?

The future doesn't have to be ALL Orwell, or ALL Huxley, there is middle ground you know? You make it sound like the capitalists will end up keeping us happy with soma, and the communist will have to "cull" a few of the dissodents that step out of line. This is a little over the top. The world is made up of a whole lot of grey as you pointed out before. There is no right or wrong, there is only what most people democratically believe to be right or wrong. How they got their opinion is none of your concern.

[RGacky3]

First of all, not all leftists are anti-religion, just becouse marx did not like religion does not mean all leftists hate religion, so there can be many religios communists. Second of all if the people want a communist society, there will really be no opposition, perhaps a few cappies will try and oppose the government, but if the people want communism then everthing will be fine. I think it should be the way cuba is, if you like communism stay, if you don't go to the U$, opponants can just be kicked out not killed. Personally I value my life, I believe in god (not an after life though) and I value other peoples lives.

[lenin]

"Therefore, to kill someone you ought to have a referendum first."

in a perfect world yes. but the descision would be made through democratic centralism.

"You don't need to kill people to stay in power"

yes you do. the bourgeoisie could launch a counter revolution.

"If you do kill people to stay in power, people will resent you,"

only the capitalists.

"Would you feel guilty if you did?"

not really. it would depend on if it would benefit people. i am going to join the red army and will have to kill chechens. i will do this with no regrets because i know it will benefit people.

"All you speak of is dictatorship. That isn't democracy."

democratic centralism. and its only temporary.

"How they got their opinion is none of your concern."

it is if it contradicts the view of the majority (the prolateriat).

"Personally I value my life, I believe in god (not an after life though) and I value other peoples lives."

do you value the lives of fascists?

[vox]

What fucking BULLSHIT you people are talking here!

You want to extend the elitism of democratic centralism with a bullet, huh? You're of no Left that is deserving of the name.

I've already told the Leninists to fuck off, now it's time to tell the filthy Stalinists to do the same.

Indeed, Stalinism is a complete lie philosophically, relying on circular logic, and as far as I can tell Stalinists are simply anti-social wannabe thugs who were attracted to Stalin instead of Hitler.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the "Stalinists" on this board are actually capitalist trolls.

vox

[peaccenicked]

killing people, murder , no. It is wrong. There is such a thing as completely wrong. Life is valuable, and you are criminally insane perhaps you should get help.''Lenin", what a delusion?

[honest intellectual]

Hey, vox, I thought you had left.

Anyway, lenin, I'm by no means a pacfist, but you have to accept that you can't kill all your opponents. even if your Stalinist partyu is extremely popular, you might have 95% support. In which case 5% will be "dissidents". So you plan on killing 7 million Russians? Some people do deserve to be killed, particularly in a revolution, but not all dissidents. In Cuba for example, the regime was rock solid a year or so after the overthrow of Batista, and only 550 were executed

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from vox on 12:33 am on June 7, 2002
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the "Stalinists" on this board are actually capitalist trolls.

vox


I was actually thinking the same thing. I mean, Imperial Power and Reagan Lives left immediately when these fools came in. I don't really think their smart enough to do that, though.

[lenin]

yes cuba is an example of a fairly peaceful revolution. but this was easier because batista was suck a prick who had no popular support. there were very few bourgeoisie in cuba. i wouldn't kill anyone who simply didn't agree. if they kept quiet and got on with it, no problem. the whole idea is, you kill a few leading capitalists, and the rest of them keep quiet after that.

[lenin]

"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law and order." - Idi Amin

excellent quote.

[peaccenicked]

killing capitalists is not a communist goal. Neutralising capitalist resistence is a goal of revolution when it has majority support. . Why are you so obssesed with murder?

[lenin]

"communism is not love. communism is a hammer we use to crush our enemies" - Mao Tse Tung

another brilliant quote!

peacenicked, read the two quotes and my signiture. especially my signiture. the easiest way to destroy capitalism, is to kill capitalists! not all capitalists. some are merely capitalist sympathisers, but the leading bourgeoisie, should be killed.

[peaccenicked]

Mao's quote is dumb contradicts human decency.
Here is what dumbism means.
http://www.starbuilders.org/flash/ff53/ff53-pg2.html

[El Che]

Life is supreme value. I dont want to harm others in anyway, and let me tell you that is was not always so. But I`m proud to say that one of the things my political and philosophical introspection and reflection has brought with it is a more correct atitude towards others. Isn`t that ironic Lenin? I was never religious, and I soon understood, like you understand, that often by bringing harm to others we can benifit our selves. I learned, in part through socialism (though some of the merit is my own), to care for others, and you want to use socialism as a cover to hurt and to murder, the irony lies therein, and it also shows what different conceptions you and I have of what Socialism truly is.

You think its hard to be cruel? You think your the stronger man? haha, you idiot I`ll tell you whats hard, its hard to have principals and stick by them, its hard to put others above your self. Anyone can be cruel and infact most everyone is at one point or another of their lives.

But I`ll tell you one think lenin, though I seek not hurt others to the best of my ability, I do not extend such courtesies to those who would harm me. People like you should be left alone but if you try and pull something off then its time to put the dogs to death.


(Edited by El Che at 1:11 pm on June 7, 2002)

[Blasphemy]

well said, el che.

[lenin]

lol, you think i started this thread to sound 'hard'? i am pretty confident i could kick the living shit out of most people on this site. i have no need to prove anything to myself or too anyone else. i started this thread to ask non-religious leftist what is there problem with killing people if it is for the sake of mankind. i'll ask another question (because i still haven't had the first one answered!), if we had to kill 5,000,000 for the sake of the revolution succeding, would you do it?

[Blasphemy]

i wouldn't kill a single person for a revolution. i cannot give someone his life back, so i will not take it away for him.

[lenin]

i respect your view blasphemy but ultimatly, if you led a revolution, it would fail. because there are alway people willing to kill to achieve what they see as a better way of life. with that attitude, you would be killed by bourgeoisie.

[Blasphemy]

then let these people lead a violent revolution. i will take no part in it. democracy is the way to change things.

[pastradamus]

Quote: from lenin on 10:59 pm on June 6, 2002

pastradamus, why don't you kick my ass to death? because you would fucking die trying you social fascist!!! i looked at you profile and it said, interests: social democracy. damn you!!!!

HAHA! thats the funniest thing i think i've ever seen!
lmao!
SOCIAL FACIST! and thats coming from a stalinist fuck!
Where do u get ur material,its fucking good man!
i dont actually think i've heard a better description of stalinism B4.

Social democracy is a system at peace withself & mankind.

companách pa.

[pastradamus]

Quote: from lenin on 5:04 pm on June 7, 2002
lol, you think i started this thread to sound 'hard'? i am pretty confident i could kick the living shit out of most people on this site. i have no need to prove anything to myself or too anyone else. i started this thread to ask non-religious leftist what is there problem with killing people if it is for the sake of mankind. i'll ask another question (because i still haven't had the first one answered!), if we had to kill 5,000,000 for the sake of the revolution succeding, would you do it?


ok to answer ur first question,well it was answered but u are as ignorant as stalin and chose not to think about it.
& u think u cud kick my ass! thrust me u cudnt fight ur way outta a wet paper bag.

[vox]

"i started this thread to ask non-religious leftist what is there problem with killing people if it is for the sake of mankind."

Who is to decide what is best for mankind? You propose nothing but the obscene doctrine of "might makes right." You'd be a good Republican.

vox

[lenin]

" & u think u cud kick my ass! thrust me u cudnt fight ur way outta a wet paper bag."

and how do you reach this equation?

[peaccenicked]

Lenin, do you know what a psychopath is, perhaps you should see a psychologist. Your politics look like an excuse for your thugish demeanour.

[lenin]

peacenicked, what does 'thugish demenour mean'?

[peaccenicked]

Sorry. THUGGISH DEMEANOUR.
Your brutal disposition towards violence. Did you have it before you adopted stalinism or did you contort your personality to serve this "true believer crap''

[pastradamus]

No peccenicked he had it when i brought him into this world.....
ah that magical nite with his mother :biggrin

[lenin]

i am a violent person by nature if that is what you mean. i do not say that to act tough or anything because i know you do not really respect violence so i have nothing to gain from saying it. but my personality has nothing to do with my political views.
i sometimes partake in football violence. the people i mix with while doing this are also violent by nature, but they are nazis (even though they vote labour)! nazism is violent by nature because it is merely reactionary violence. i am a marxist because in my politcal theory, i want to help people rather than hurt them (contrary to what you might think).
if i wanted to take my violence into the political arena, i would of become a nazi. but i want my politcis to help people and beneift the world. this is why i chose marxism over nazism.

[lenin]

BTW i personally believe my system of government to be the most peaceful. read redsovietccps's quote to see what i mean. once true communism is achived (however violent we have to be to achieve it), IMO, there will be permanent peace. so you see, the end, will justify the means.

[vox]

"nazism is violent by nature because it is merely reactionary violence."

But in another thread you said you were reactionary.

Oh, and you whined because no one addressed your question, so I did, and you've nothing to say. Or are you invoking the vox resolution, you know, the one that the inept invoke.

vox

[peaccenicked]

I did not know that partaking in soccer violence was okay for marxists, what do you do kick the shit out of some poor defenceless working class kid that supports the wrong team.
Are you sure dont need psychiatric help. Declare yourself a danger to yourself and others.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 1:56 am on June 8, 2002)

[pastradamus]

wait......hold on a second.
First ur a Stalinist,but wait ur a marxist.
Next ur a racist,but not a racist.
then ur a violent person but u wanna help ur comrades rather than be violent.

As we say in Cork SPOOF! thank u that is all.

[peaccenicked]

Lenin is so dumb, he makes me want to cry.
Boo Hoo
Boo Hoo
There done.

[evil chris]

Before i start, Lenin, do you habitually smoke crack?
I feel i need to know this because it will help to find out why you thinkl how you think.

Anyway- on with the piss taking.

"do you think they are the only people who were atheist who ever killed people? "

nono, what you said was:"what???? stalin, lenin, hitler, mao, pol pot???? were these not atheists? and wasn't that timothy mcveigh guy a big atheist?? "

in reply to "atheists don't kill as a rule" suggesting that well actully atheists do kill, as a rule.
I took the mick.You blew a guit.Careful lad coz if you spark off like that everything i take the mick out of you your gonna put yourself in hospital.

"you are no fucking leftist!!! "

if you are par for rth leftist course then thank god for that.Is right oppostie you? Can i be far right please Lenin?
Ta.

"you are a blatant anti-bolshevik!!!! "

If you listen really carefully now, you can just hear Inspector Knacker softly crying in fear of his job.

"you are a social democrat"

I am? ah well fair enough.Is that a bad thing or a good thing and what does it mean?

"and therefore, you are a social fascist!!!! "

Really? Aw fuck.Bad thing then........
Hang on!
You do know what Fascism is? right?
Coz other wise you'd look like a right twat coming out like that.

"and i didn't say they all had to die....."

Just the ones that don't competly tow the line?

"but the bourgeoisie are the land owners, there lives couldn't just continue because they wouldn't own the land anymore!!"

congratualtions on your first use of logic.Yes if land owners didn't have land,they would no longer be landowners.Have a round counter.

"!!! so they would become possible enemies of the people......like you!!!! "

whathey? where did i come in there? I think you missed a line out when you edited that post.

[pce]

Quote: from lenin on 8:02 am on June 7, 2002
didn't know which forum to post this in but i posted it here to get the commnist reaction to it.
if we are all marxists here, i presume we are all anti-religion. if we are anti-religion, we don't beleive in god, heaven, hell, purgatory, redemption and all that, right? so why is everyone so anti death on this site? everytime a stalinist suggests people 'deserving death' we get berated, why? if the death will benefit everyone else, why don't they deserve to die? why is human life so precious? if you stood on an ant, would you be grief stricken? theres no difference, an ant is a living thing too.
do you think killing someon will make you a bad person? in the eyes of who? theres no god to judge us comrades. we are born, we live, we die. as marxists, this is what we believe, correct? so what we do in our lives (be it 'good' or 'bad') has no bearing on where we end up, does it?
the truth is, human life is not as sacred as you think. because once we are dead, we don't know it! we are just gone! our goal as humans should be to make life better, if that means killing someone, then we should do it. of course, i am speaking in a purley governmental sense here and i am reffering to dissidents or enemies of the people, not just someone who fucked your wife or whatever.
opinions please.


i came into this discussion late. i haven't read all the pages so i'm just going to respond to lenin's first post:

i also happen to not believe in god. i don't believe in definite right and wrong either in ANY supernaturaly defined manner. however that doesn't mean i don't believe in right and wrong, at least my own sense of it. don't you believe capitalism is wrong? did god tell you that? no, that's just your belief. in the same way, it is my belief that it is wrong to kill.

for the same reason that human life is NOT sacred, it is not our right to decide when someone else's life should end.

see my post in "anti-violent commies" under Q&A for more of my views

(Edited by pce at 6:36 pm on June 8, 2002)

[evil chris]

Lenin kindly assures us that ,"not everyone who slightly disagrees [will be executed]. just blatant dissidents. "

well cheers guv'nr.
So aslong as people don't brave a climate of fear to try and make postive change its ok?
Do we get to have big screens in our houses to make sure?

"but like i say, when someone with the speaking skills of hitler talks,"

phew- i stutter so i can live out the revolution useing an-an-anarchi--ist rehtoric badly and writeing!
What about mute dissidents?
If you cut off their hands they can't write well and so their 'cancer' can't spread!
Good thinking Batman!

The best thing about this arugment is the Straw Man factor.You can'r disagree with the premis (hitler got to power through rhetoric) and that hitler was bad.You can use some good arugemtns that hitler should have been nipped in the bud (true too) and then it's linked in to the arugments for murdering the likes of me.

Lenin the Politician says "i agree with left opposition. i would of allowed trotsky to stay in USSR and formed a leftist opposition to stalin. not necessarily another party, but i would of let trotsky run for general secratary. "

hurrah- a choice between Bold and Bold-Spring Fresh.

[peaccenicked]

yeah too true, but it is hard to argue with a violent psychopath who gets off on soccer violence then berates homosexuals as depraved. He says he does not have a conscience. Too true

[El Che]

"lol, you think i started this thread to sound 'hard'?"


No Lenin I think you mean every word you say, otherwise I wouldn`t waste my time on you. What I said was that you should start being a real man by renouncing to gratuitous violence.

[peaccenicked]

THE CALL UP
(THE CLASH)

HUP TWO, THREE, FOUR...

IT'S UP TO YOU NOT TO HEED THE CALL-UP
'N' YOU MUST NOT ACT THE WAY YOU WERE BROUGHT UP
WHO KNOWS THE REASONS WHY YOU HAVE GROWN UP?
WHO KNOWS THE PLANS OR WHY THEY WERE DRAWN UP?

IT'S UP TO YOU NOT TO HEED THE CALL-UP
I DON'T WANNA DIE!
IT'S UP TO YOU NOT TO HEED THE CALL-UP
I DON'T WANNA KILL!

FOR HE WHO WILL DIE
IS HE WHO WILL KILL

MAYBE I WANNA SEE THE WHEATFIELDS
OVER KIEV AND DOWN TO THE SEA

ALL THE YOUNG PEOPLE DOWN THE AGES
THEY GLADLY MARCH OFF TO DIE
PROUD CITY FATHERS USED TO WATCH THEM
TEARS IN THEIR EYES

THERE IS A ROSE THAT I WANT TO LIVE FOR
ALTHOUGH, GOD KNOWS, I MAY NOT HAVE MET HER
THERE IS A DANCE AN' I SHOULD BE WITH HER
THERE IS A TOWN - UNLIKE ANY OTHER

IT'S UP TO YOU NOT TO HEAR THE CALL-UP
'N' YOU MUST NOT ACT THE WAY YOU WERE BROUGHT UP
WHO GIVES YOU WORK AND WHY SHOULD YOU DO IT?
AT FIFTY-FIVE MINUTES PAST ELEVEN
THERE IS A ROSE...

HUP TWO, THREE, FOUR...I LOVE THE MARINE CORPS...

[evil chris]

"in a perfect world yes. but the descision would be made through democratic centralism. "

thats the waky democracy you like where if you talk out of turn you get a bullet in the head?

""If you do kill people to stay in power, people will resent you,"

only the capitalists. "

or the likes of me who don't like being sumerly executed,or maybe the fmailes and firends of the,say,36 million disposed off, or the people who just disagree with a small group of "revoltuonariys" givening themselves god-like powers.But yeah capitalists too.

" i am going to join the red army and will have to kill chechens. "

why Chechenas?
But really it's just any fucker who sees you as twats.Get off the high horse about " i know it will benefit people."

repet after me:
I The poster known as Lenin, am a Power craving fruitloop,who belives that whatever i belive is right, so i should be able to kill who i want.

good lad.Therapy can soon begin.

"do you value the lives of fascists? "

well yeah.And you must too Lenin coz you go and have a post match ruck shoulder to shoulder with them.

I do like your quotes from fruitloop dictators.Why not quote God talking to Joshua as a reason to commit genocide.All of them are hearing voices in their heads telling them to kill.
Do you hear voices Lenin?
Might be time to put down the crack pipe

[evil chris]

Lenin poses the deep and ethical question : i"f we had to kill 5,000,000 for the sake of the revolution succeding, would you do it? "

well not your revolution bub, coz the way it's looking, i'd be number 2,300,206.
But as i have said before, i aint a pacifist by any stretch.

Lenin warns Blaphemy "you would be killed by bourgeoisie. "

But because of your views on dissidents, the poor lamb is just as likely to be murdered by your mob.Back off the high horse lenin- it don't suit you.

"Social democracy is a system at peace withself & mankind"
better back that up pastradamus

[evil chris]

".
i sometimes partake in football violence. the people i mix with while doing this are also violent by nature, but they are nazis (even though they vote labour)! nazism is violent by nature because it is merely reactionary violence. i am a marxist because in my politcal theory, i want to help people rather than hurt them (contrary to what you might think).
if i wanted to take my violence into the political arena, i would of become a nazi. but i want my politcis to help people and beneift the world. this is why i chose marxism over nazism. "

Lenin-- how much crack ARE you smoking?!

Lenin Sez "BTW i personally believe my system of government to be the most peaceful"

Yeha! coz anyone who you don't like is dead!
Peace through genocide!
Wonder why that hasn't be tried before..........ohwaithangon!

[peaccenicked]

This is all mad. Lenin has completely lost the plot.
I am kinda worried that he his headed for prison or the locked ward.
His parents and uncle have brainwashed him and I think the poor guy is confused but honest. He is a danger to himself and other and needs treatment.
The ammount of self contradiction is a futher sign of mental deteriation and he is probably too macho to seek help. If any you Stalinists are his true buddies,
would you not be better to actually get him on the right tracks. I am not talking about his politics or yours here .
This guy is well gone and I say that with years of experience in the field of mental health.
Learn compassion and dont make the guy any worse.

[man in the red suit]

lenin you are a sick fuck but i see your point, being someone who is friends with a communist who talks about killing people every second of every day.

I think yur just angry at the capitalists. I am too but they don't deserve death. As others said, you don't need some god bullshit to have YOUR OWN morals. that is pretty sick. It is the principal of the thing. You don't jsut kill someone because their ideas differ from yours.
I try to explain this to my friend too but it just seems that you people are unflinching in your standpoints on this sick ideology.

[Blasphemy]

why isn't anyone confining lenin to a mental asylum?

[RedSovietCCCP]

I beleive in god, so no comment

[evil chris]

"why isn't anyone confining lenin to a mental asylum? "

coz it's so much funnier to point and laugh.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from RedSovietCCCP on 4:26 pm on June 8, 2002
I beleive in god, so no comment


you believe in god and yet you are a stalinist, you believe in the same man who oppresses religion and illegalises bibles. ok. whole lotta sense tha makes.. no comment here either.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Man in the red suit state in any of my threads where I said I was a stalinist. You can't find one because I never said I was, so keep your mouth shut before you know all the facts stupidass!!!!!!!!!

[man in the red suit]

hmhm, your NOT a stalinist even though you call us all
"liberal fucks" your the dumbass. why don't you do us all a favour and keep YOUR mouth shut.

[ID2002]

I am not a "anti-religion" supporter! I believe killing is a negative action...whatever the reason. I am Buddhist, but I am not a walking converter...I don't do that shit. We keep to our community and help others out who are in need of social assistance or construction...but we do not "push" our religion around. If a person is interested, then, and only then do we talk about it.
So, Lenin.... I think your being quite disrespectful, and rude.
Remember, negative actions yield negative reactions! The law of cause and effect is universal! You cannot escape it!

(Edited by ID2002 at 1:44 am on June 9, 2002)

[timbaly]

We could all resolve this problem if everyone killed themselves and unless we do this this argument will never end

[RGacky3]

Quote: from man in the red suit on 5:41 am on June 8, 2002
lenin you are a sick fuck but i see your point, being someone who is friends with a communist who talks about killing people every second of every day.



I only talk about killing calabasas people, and unters.

[RGacky3]

Why can't lenin believe in God, is that anti-communist. Why can't RedSolvietCCCP and Iraqi stop fighting you've both got good points, but your also both communists, its the cappies we should be *****ing at.

[Nateddi]

Its not anti-communist to believe in God.

However when you believe in God, you are worshiping a higher monarch, you consider this life meaningless to the after life, and other religious things which for the most part go against humanism.

[anti machine]

If life is as pointless as you make it out to be, what is the purpose of writing a manifesto with the intention of improving the quality of life? Although Marx realizes that there is no God and life seems a futile and unimportant thing, there is something inside of him and all of us that says that life is precious and oppression is wrong. As for killing people, I have not made up my mind. Taking a human life is immoral, I am sure of that, but when the need arises it is a necessity, such as in battle.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 11:34 pm on June 9, 2002

Quote: from man in the red suit on 5:41 am on June 8, 2002
lenin you are a sick fuck but i see your point, being someone who is friends with a communist who talks about killing people every second of every day.



I only talk about killing calabasas people, and unters.


hehe, yeah, your the greatest Nomar. No really, you always talk about killing Prochazka and other nazi cows,
......oh yeah, like you said, calabasians and unters. lol :)

[Lefty]

damn it lenin...do you have any morals? as i interpret it, you are saying that if you disagree with me, you should kill me. that is wrong, and sick.

[Mazdak]

Lenin you still have support here. I agree with your original post 99% (except i would never hurt any animal whatsoever, i dont hurt mosquitoes or ants). A bloodless revolution does not succeed. There is always some kind of scum that the world needs to do with out.
Exampls:
George Bush
George W. Bush
Ariel Sharon
Adolf Hitler
Benito Mussolini( I can't believe you are all so soft when it comes to killing, i bet none of you agree with mussolini's execution)
Ronald Reagan
James K Polk(dirty US president)
Chang Kai Shek(Spelling is wrong obviously)
All czars

(it doesnt matter if the people are alice or dead, it iis just listing who deserves to die)

[man in the red suit]

if it matters, you spell it; Chiang Kaishek. That is the proper spelling. I agree that all of the people mentioned, deserve to die except Ariel Sharon, he's bad, but not execution worthy.

[Blasphemy]

i think that killing people is totally against the values of socialism. when you kill someone, you make yourself god, and put yourself above that man. if you take his life, then you are superior to him, you make yourself more important. socialism talks about equality, and that doesn't coincide.

[hXcPetey]

Quote: from lenin on 5:02 pm on June 6, 2002
didn't know which forum to post this in but i posted it here to get the commnist reaction to it.
if we are all marxists here, i presume we are all anti-religion. if we are anti-religion, we don't beleive in god, heaven, hell, purgatory, redemption and all that, right? so why is everyone so anti death on this site? everytime a stalinist suggests people 'deserving death' we get berated, why? if the death will benefit everyone else, why don't they deserve to die? why is human life so precious? if you stood on an ant, would you be grief stricken? theres no difference, an ant is a living thing too.
do you think killing someon will make you a bad person? in the eyes of who? theres no god to judge us comrades. we are born, we live, we die. as marxists, this is what we believe, correct? so what we do in our lives (be it 'good' or 'bad') has no bearing on where we end up, does it?
the truth is, human life is not as sacred as you think. because once we are dead, we don't know it! we are just gone! our goal as humans should be to make life better, if that means killing someone, then we should do it. of course, i am speaking in a purley governmental sense here and i am reffering to dissidents or enemies of the people, not just someone who fucked your wife or whatever.
opinions please.

Fuck, I believe in something. i wouldnt call it god or a HIGHER power but there is something. and yes, a minimal amount of violence for political change. but its not right to kill someone cause they dissent. maybe it would beokay to take out capitalist leaders but thats it. not thier folowers and sure as hell not thier sympathizers, instead try to convince them otherwise.

[Mazdak]

OK, some of you are thinking rather unrealistically now,
how exactly is a revolution going to work without a conflict between the capitalist/imperialist forces and the communist guerrillas?? HOw are you going to arm the revolutionaries? Super Soaker water guns??? Then your revolution isnt going to last long...

And Blasphemy- you missed the point by saying you are putting yourself in God's position by murdering, no offense but isn't George Bush murdering right now and didn't Israeli forces just kill like 4 people in a marketplace?? And look what happened to Allende, he tried to win a revolution without bloodshed, and he paid the price. And why not eliminate the capitalist pigs who are the target of the revolution anyway. Crush them before they get the chance to infiltrate the minds of the people ever again!!

[hXcPetey]

Quote: from lenin on 8:40 pm on June 6, 2002
"Thats why Athists don't kill as a rule."

what???? stalin, lenin, hitler, mao, pol pot???? were these not atheists? and wasn't that timothy mcveigh guy a big atheist??


timithy mcviegh wasint an athiest, he was a lunitic motivated by the "inspiration" of those religious fanatix at Waco.

[AladdinSane]

"didn't know which forum to post this in but i posted it here to get the commnist reaction to it.
if we are all marxists here, i presume we are all anti-religion. if we are anti-religion, we don't beleive in god, heaven, hell, purgatory, redemption and all that, right? "

Personally, I am an atheist. I think that religion once had a large role in the world. From where I'm sitting, that has been a totally destructive role. More wars have been fought over religion than any others. On the flipside, religion has been the inspiration behind a lot of amazing artwork, architecture, etc. Another opinion, religion is an inherent need in human beings; a lot of us cannot comprehend the creation of the universe without thinking that there was someone, or something, or somethings that were behind it all. Man asked the same questions centuries ago that he asks today. " Where am I from?" "Why am I here?" and so on... As far as the existence of God or gods and the answers to those mind-boggling questions, I think that we as a race simply cannot comprehend it. Think of an earthworm as an example. It has no idea that we exist. It knows only its own life within the small perameters given to it at birth.


"so why is everyone so anti death on this site? everytime a stalinist suggests people 'deserving death' we get berated, why? if the death will benefit everyone else, why don't they deserve to die? why is human life so precious?"

My guess would be empathy, pure, inherent empathy. Another example of pure human nature.

"if you stood on an ant, would you be grief stricken? "

No, but if I hit a squirrel I'd be upset.

"theres no difference, an ant is a living thing too.
do you think killing someon will make you a bad person? in the eyes of who? theres no god to judge us comrades."

You're right. It's our duty to judge eachother.

"we are born, we live, we die."

Some like to think that life itself cannot be so simple a thing, but I agree with the simplicity of the statement.

"as marxists, this is what we believe, correct? so what we do in our lives (be it 'good' or 'bad') has no bearing on where we end up, does it?
the truth is, human life is not as sacred as you think. because once we are dead, we don't know it! we are just gone! our goal as humans should be to make life better, if that means killing someone, then we should do it. of course, i am speaking in a purley governmental sense here and i am reffering to dissidents or enemies of the people, not just someone who fucked your wife or whatever.
opinions please."

A point well-taken, but the issue is all a matter of opinion. In a certain sense, I agree with you that human life is not so precious a thing- I mean this in the sense that there are supposedly more than 6 billion of us on this tiny planet- one less won't throw off the balance. However, I'm not about to go across the street and put a bullet through my neighbour's head because he does not affect the "big picture." That, I believe, is wrong. I just don't like destruction.

My two bit, hope I didn't terribly offend anyone...

[RGacky3]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Tyriny's becoming a comrade (sobs) I'm sooooooo proud (sniffle)

[AladdinSane]

It's Tierney... ^_^

[man in the red suit]

yeah, nice post Tierney. I see the manifesto I let you borrow, is doing you some good.

[Mazdak]

Why not be upset? Isnt an ant a living thing? I hate when a person simply kills an insect just because it is there. What makes insects so different?? They are alive and are animals just like cats and dogs. Why do people find it so cute to step on insects, but rather unpleasant to step on kittens??? I think it is only a way for a person to show his or her power of the animal. bullies always pick on the smaller kids.
I get really emotianal about animals rights, so i will end it there

[RGacky3]

remember animals don't really think, or have a real desire to live, they don't apreciate art or any thing, humans do.

[vox]

"remember animals don't really think, or have a real desire to live, they don't apreciate art or any thing, humans do."

Wow. Just wow. Animals have no desire to live, huh? Then why do, say, zebras run away when a predator attacks? Is it because they don't care whether they live or not? Such foolishness and idiocy is spewed on this board that it's like listening to AM talk radio (for those of you in the States, you'll know it's a step down from the Jerry Springer show).

You know, I bet you I could find some people who don't appreciate art. How many of you little fuckers like the opera, huh? Those of you who do not, please get into the line marked "Soylent Green processing ahead." Good dogs.

Of course, you lead off with "they don't think." Prove it. And, while you're at it, explain why it matters. Seriously. Explain to the class why it matters it they can think or not.

It's not a question of whether they can think. It's not a question of whether they can do math and discuss a painting. The only relevent question is "Can they suffer?" And we all know that the answer to that is yes, animals can suffer, and they do.

The choice is ours: cause more suffering in the world or try to decrease the amount of suffering in the world. Make the choice, but live with it.

vox

[Mazdak]

So.. lions dont think when they plan out hunts. ant queens dont think when they choose a site to begin a colony? to live, ESPECIALLY in the wild, one must make desicions, and if animals are all mindless robots, they should have become extinct long ago. If a dog cant think why does it recognize you after being with you alot??

[RedSovietCCCP]

Aladdinsane, Anti-religion doesn't mean you don't beleive god stupid ass!!!! As for the killing issue, those who don't slander there communist government and slander the communist leader or dictator should be put to death or sent to education camps!!!

[man in the red suit]

red soviet, what the hell is your problem? you are constantly rude to everyone. Try to say something without saying "stupid ass" or "dumb fuck." I dare you.
Tierney is probably much smarter than you so I suggest that you shut up.

[Blane K]

No man has the right to kill another man for no reason. If a man is causing trouble yes than killing is not a problem but we must not abuse this power abusing this power causes citizens to flee or die while fleeing we must keep a community that makes the citizens please so they work more efficently that was CASTRO's rule and he is still ruling Cuba

[RedSovietCCCP]

Man in a red suit, I'm sure that Aladdin is much smarter than me even know he/she doesn't even know what anti-religion is!!! And I am gettting pissed off because of all the ignorant remarks that these little kids are saying on this so called communist site. It seems like all these kids on here just woke up one morning and decided to be communist with out reading jack shit!! So don't don't tell me that he/she is smarter me when I am studying maxist/leninist theroy in college right now. Pretty soon I will be a expert on the all theroys.

[Mazdak]

REdsoviet, i hope you are not refering to me as well, i never called myself an expert and came here to see more about it. I have erad works by marx(communist manefesto) and engels and i have read a pamphelt by lenin and do much research on most communist leaders of history. Oh, and the post (the one right before your last post) makes no sense. You also seem to be way to arrogant about this. you are only in your early twenties so wha tthe fuck are you talking about? you aren't much older than any of us "kids."

[RGacky3]

Quote: from vox on 12:00 am on June 27, 2002
"remember animals don't really think, or have a real desire to live, they don't apreciate art or any thing, humans do."

Wow. Just wow. Animals have no desire to live, huh? Then why do, say, zebras run away when a predator attacks? Is it because they don't care whether they live or not? Such foolishness and idiocy is spewed on this board that it's like listening to AM talk radio (for those of you in the States, you'll know it's a step down from the Jerry Springer show).



Comrade, its called instinct, INSTINCT, they cannot think, thus they have no desire to live. No need for any personal insults comrade.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from RedSovietCCCP on 5:05 pm on June 27, 2002
Man in a red suit, I'm sure that Aladdin is much smarter than me even know he/she doesn't even know what anti-religion is!!! And I am gettting pissed off because of all the ignorant remarks that these little kids are saying on this so called communist site. It seems like all these kids on here just woke up one morning and decided to be communist with out reading jack shit!! So don't don't tell me that he/she is smarter me when I am studying maxist/leninist theroy in college right now. Pretty soon I will be a expert on the all theroys.


Please comrade, perhaps she misworded something, no need to insult everyone. I am sure you are very intelligent when it comes to theorys, but that does'nt mean you need to go calling comrades dumb asses for every remark they say wrong or you don't agree with.

[evil chris]

Whoo Hooo you read some shit at college!! Well aint you the scholar!
Just coz you've read a few books doesn't make your opinions any more vaild, in the same way that not everthing in a book is correct.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from RedSovietCCCP on 5:05 pm on June 27, 2002
Man in a red suit, I'm sure that Aladdin is much smarter than me even know he/she doesn't even know what anti-religion is!!! And I am gettting pissed off because of all the ignorant remarks that these little kids are saying on this so called communist site. It seems like all these kids on here just woke up one morning and decided to be communist with out reading jack shit!! So don't don't tell me that he/she is smarter me when I am studying maxist/leninist theroy in college right now. Pretty soon I will be a expert on the all theroys.


you're in colledge? hm....why do I get the impression that you are full of shit. You sound like a high school freshman. You constantly say fuck this, fuck that, fuck you, fuck me, fuck fuck fuck. always calling people dumbasses. You have no maturity and you are constantly being rude to everyone. Nobody here is calling you a dumbass. You need to be a little more polite even with those you don't like. I don't like anarchy, but you don't see me calling the anarchists dumbasses. Just calm down a bit. That is great that you study lenin and Marx, but that doesn't give you the right to call us all dumbasses. Everyone here studies Marx and Lenin, even me. If you think we got something wrong just let us know in a polite manner. No need to get hostile.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Ok man in the red suit, I understand what you are saying about me being rude to people. But look at the last posting I have ever put on this web-site. Me and lenin are always getting rude comments put on us because the way we think about things. Lenin was kicked off this web-site for his radical ideas. Thats bull shit don't you think??? I will tone down when other people respect what I have to say. But you are right man in the red suit. I will tone down.

As for evil chris, scholars get to be scholars by reading books and doing research on the subject. And I read a few books???? See these comments piss me off because you have know idea what you are taking about. All I have to say to you evil chris is read some books for once in you life!!!! And I have read so much on the subject of maxism/leninism!!!!!!

[Mazdak]

AH!! lenin was kicked off? WhY? i never saw any hugely racist post or pro hitler post!!!

[evil chris]

Red Soviet.
many scholars are also full of shit.........
And you get your smarts not just by reading the propaganda of lenin and marx.
You may have read "so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!" by them but so what?
If you'd read "so much!!" by Hitler, David Iving or Milton Fridmen and taken it on board, would you stll want me to differ to your interlectual supiriority?
I would suggest that 100 + year old critciques of capitalism 100 + years ago and the self justifying propaganda of a dictator are largely irrelevent anyay.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from RedSovietCCCP on 1:35 am on June 28, 2002
Ok man in the red suit, I understand what you are saying about me being rude to people. But look at the last posting I have ever put on this web-site. Me and lenin are always getting rude comments put on us because the way we think about things. Lenin was kicked off this web-site for his radical ideas. Thats bull shit don't you think??? I will tone down when other people respect what I have to say. But you are right man in the red suit. I will tone down.




ok, great, I'm glad to hear that. I see where you're coming from though. Both you, and Lenin should stop being harassed. Sometimes, even I am surprised with peoples' arrogance.

[Mazdak]

Is there anyone who knows how to at leaxt contact that Lenin ccharacter???

[AladdinSane]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:08 pm on June 26, 2002
Why not be upset? Isnt an ant a living thing? I hate when a person simply kills an insect just because it is there. What makes insects so different?? They are alive and are animals just like cats and dogs. Why do people find it so cute to step on insects, but rather unpleasant to step on kittens??? only a w for a person to show his or her power of the animal. bullies always pick on the smaller kids.
I get really emotianal about animals rights, so i will end it there


Kittens do not spread disease in the abundance that ants, mosquitoes, etc. do. Besides, there are too many ants in the world, as it is incredibly difficult to spay or neuter one. Im addition to that- ants are a lower order of animal. It's that simple. Remember my oblivious earthworm? The only thing it knows is eating dirt, pooping, and reproducing. If you pick it up and put it on the end of a hook, it's not thinking, "Oh my God, I'm about to be used as bait! It's not fair!!!" In fact, the worm is most likely thinking, "Pain, ouch." Same goes for an ant. The ant could care less about anything except that which it knows: eating, pooping, reproducing, and whatever else instinct instills in it. Why don't I have a regard for little creepy crawly things? Because they serve little purpose for the greater good. Do I feel the same way about puppies, kitties, etc.? To a certain extent, yes. I have had to have pets put down because they were in pain (which has little to do with ants), and I think it's perverted (not sexually) and wrong when people don't do that. Anyways, back to the subject at hand, I have a similar opinion on people. Euthanasia? Yes, definitely. Why have a miserable person take up space, food, etc.? Suicide? If you don't wanna face life, go for it. Abortion? It's up to a woman, her doctor, and (if applicable) her god. Reffering back to the ants, I don't believe that people should be exterminated because they serve no purpose, personally. Rather, I think that people should be encouraged not to have children, as overpopulation is a big issue, no pun intended. As much as I hate to admit it, humanity is as much of a vermin as anything you could consider to be so. We've destroyed our environment, depleted resources, and made life entirely miserable for ourselves. If you're going to feel sympathetic for an oblivious creature, think only of what your own species has done in far greater proportion.

[Mazdak]

Excatly, so why talk of ants and rats when humans are far worse. At least ants and rats have natural predators. And there aren't too many ants. n individual ant has very little need for huge portions of food
unlike people who need their 3 meals a day and all that crap.

Lower orrder??
Have you ever heard of a thing called a termite??? They have one of the most complex social structures in the animal kingdom. They think. And if aleins sent a beam of light down theat burnt a person alive, do you think the person would try to figure out what the composition of the beam was??? No!!!

And people reproduce pooop, and eat too!! That is the main thing for people too.

[AladdinSane]

Would any termites posting on political theory here please make themselves known?

[RGacky3]

Comrate tyrine, with out earth worms, do you know how messed up this world would be, we would probably all starve to death becouse the ground would be infertile, now if alll kittens were destroyed, we would all lack cuddly unconditional love, nothing bad would happen. Termites and ants have probably the only perfect communist type society (apart from the queen), this is not becouse one ant decided to create a marxist theory supporting the society of the ants and stop exploitation of the ants, no its called instinct. Some thing that for the most part we lack and so we must think in order to create a good society.

[Mazdak]

SEE? It is true. and technically, ants are sexist while termites aren't. ant colonies are made up almost entirely of female workers and a queen while termites have males and females in every "rank"

And withoutrats, humans would never have com into existence. Without rats and roaches adn bacteria, we would be knee deep in cadaver.

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from AladdinSane on 5:56 pm on July 6, 2002
Would any termites posting on political theory here please make themselves known?


I am a termite

[man in the red suit]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 12:41 am on July 8, 2002
Comrate tyrine, with out earth worms, do you know how messed up this world would be, we would probably all starve to death becouse the ground would be infertile, now if alll kittens were destroyed, we would all lack cuddly unconditional love, nothing bad would happen. Termites and ants have probably the only perfect communist type society (apart from the queen), this is not becouse one ant decided to create a marxist theory supporting the society of the ants and stop exploitation of the ants, no its called instinct. Some thing that for the most part we lack and so we must think in order to create a good society.



lmao