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( R )evolution
1st March 2007, 03:01
Can someone explain to me why the French Revolution, Portuguese and the Turkish revolutions are considered bourgeois revolutions? How do they specifically differ from a "peoples revolution"? Thanks, I am reading state and revolution and I need a lil help. Thanks!

Kropotkin Has a Posse
1st March 2007, 03:41
Well I guess you could say that certain elements of the middle class who aspired to be the new upperclass used the brute force of the masses to overturn the current leaders. Then a few days later they became the new ruling class in full and nothing changed.

Janus
1st March 2007, 04:37
Both revolutions were led by the bourgeois and middle class elite who sought to overturn the old order and establish a secular republican state in its place along with moderate reforms.

( R )evolution
1st March 2007, 04:40
So pretty much the difference was that instead of establishing a DoP after thr revolution, it was merely the middle-class leading revolution against the old bourgeois order to establish there own bourgeois order? Ah that makes more sense, I wonder why i didnt see that earlier

bezdomni
1st March 2007, 04:41
They ended feudalism and brought about industrial capitalism.

Janus
1st March 2007, 04:58
it was merely the middle-class leading revolution against the old bourgeois order to establish there own bourgeois order?
The ruling class preceding the bourgeois were the aristocracy whose status was based on their birth as opposed to the bourgeois who gained power and status based on employment, wealth, and luck.

Severian
1st March 2007, 07:21
Originally posted by ( R )[email protected] 28, 2007 09:01 pm
Can someone explain to me why the French Revolution, Portuguese and the Turkish revolutions are considered bourgeois revolutions? How do they specifically differ from a "peoples revolution"? Thanks, I am reading state and revolution and I need a lil help. Thanks!
You mean this?

If we take the revolutions of the 20th century as examples we shall, of course, have to admit that the Portuguese and the Turkish revolutions are both bourgeois revolutions. Neither of them, however, is a "people's" revolution, since in neither does the mass of the people, their vast majority, come out actively, independently, with their own economic and political demands to any noticeable degree. By contrast, although the Russian bourgeois revolution of 1905-07 displayed no such “brilliant” successes as at time fell to the Portuguese and Turkish revolutions, it was undoubtedly a "real people's" revolution, since the mass of the people, their majority, the very lowest social groups, crushed by oppression and exploitation, rose independently and stamped on the entire course of the revolution the imprint of their own demands, their attempt to build in their own way a new society in place of the old society that was being destroyed.
source (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch03.htm)

The French Revolution was both a bourgeois revolution and a "people's revolution". Since the mass of the "common people" - the poorer layers of the population - certainly did participate, and what's more as a force distinct from the bourgeoisie. The poorer layers of the population were much more radical and militant than the bourgeoisie. For a time, radical petty-bourgeois elements like Robespierre held power with the support of the city poor, and pushed things further than the timid big bourgeoisie wanted to.

Lenin's apparently saying neither the Portuguese or Turkish revolutions which occurred sometime between 1900 and 1917 had indepednet mass participation like that. The "Young Turk Revolution" of 1908 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turk_Revolution) apparently was something of a coup by army officers.

As for why all three were bourgeois revolutions, other people have commented on that....partly this category's used to describe the changes a revolution's made. If they're limited to clearing out feudalism and so forth, and don't also go on to assault capitalism, a revolution's usually called bourgeois or bourgeois-democratic.

Lenin's describing the 1905-07 revolution as bourgeois although it was definitely the working class in the lead of the assault on tsarism - probably because the revolution was primarily an assault on tsarism. He later said "our" 1917 revolution was bourgeois until mid-1918, when committees of poor peasants were set up to begin the fight against the rural bourgeoisie (kulaks) - not just the feudal landlords.