The Military Is a Sword.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

I've noticed a few too many posts insulting servicemen and women in various countries.

So i'd like to remind you the the military is a sword.

If the sword is being wielded by a Psyko, racist, born-again Christian, Neo-con fuckhead, it's not the sword's fault OK?

You have to realize that it is the people in the military who suffer most under the capitalists (Except maybe the $0.0001 an hour slave children in indonesia who have to piss in a bucket)

They are sent off to fight and die in an unwinnable war in a fucked up corner of the world for a cause they don't even care about.

And let me mention that the majority of soldiers are from VERY poor families and are really desparate to make ends meet.

[dannthraxxx]

hahahahahdslgk;asdljgk


get off it, every enlisted soldier chose that path. nobody has to "join" the military. they join by free will and choice. i'd rather put more time into a sword for the people. not some patsy military for imperialistic ideas.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Most of them Don't realise they are fighting for the bad guys, would you hate them for simple ignorance?

[Chocobo]

*Sigh* Just go read more books, please.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 08:09 pm
*Sigh* Just go read more books, please.
What has that got to do with the argument?

Damn hippies.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 02:17 pm
I've noticed a few too many posts insulting servicemen and women in various countries.

So i'd like to remind you the the military is a sword.

If the sword is being wielded by a Psyko, racist, born-again Christian, Neo-con fuckhead, it's not the sword's fault OK?

You have to realize that it is the people in the military who suffer most under the capitalists (Except maybe the $0.0001 an hour slave children in indonesia who have to piss in a bucket)

They are sent off to fight and die in an unwinnable war in a fucked up corner of the world for a cause they don't even care about.

And let me mention that the majority of soldiers are from VERY poor families and are really desparate to make ends meet.

I've noticed a few too many posts insulting servicemen and women in various countries.

I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. An organized armed force (be it police, millitary, whatever) has two purposes:

1) To coerce the citizenry of a territory that a state (or other government) has declared sovereignty over to conform with the propositions of a state or government (most generaly a code of law, or culture)...
2) To capture or defend (by any means) a territory claimed by a government or state...

All of which is done adhering to a strict code of conduct and procedure.

Their job is tp suppres any movement (particularly any revolutionary movement) or individual that would harm the sovreignty of the state in question. They are the upper class' first line of defense and offense.

Thusly, I have a hard time trusting anyone in the armed forces. They are an arm of the state that suppreses my right to my fair share.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate everybody in the millitary; my father served on a nuclear submarine during the cold war, and I most certainly don't hat him. In fact, it's quite the opposite: I love 'im!

Still, the armed forces are simply an arm of the same people that I disagree with. Hypothetically, if I had been alive while my father was on that sub, and he had to choose between nuking the USSR (hypotheticaly, mind you) and saving my from nuclear annihalation, he'd be expected to "do his duty": kill the enemies of the state.

I don't hate all service men and women. Nor do I hate all cops. I judge them (like I do most others) on a personal level.

[Janus]

The military is a double-edged sword. Yes, individual members can be persuaded to our side but as a whole the military serves the interests of the bourgeois regardless of the class makeup of the individual soldiers.

[Question everything]

I agree with TDE, these guys are poor minorities who only want Job training and health benifits, Most of them probably have hardly ever heard of communism or socialism as anything but a threat, still I think at least half the army is filled with Hill-Billies and other trigger happy neo-con (I Have no pity for them)

[dannthraxxx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 07:57 pm
Most of them Don't realise they are fighting for the bad guys, would you hate them for simple ignorance?
sorry i dont call guided missles, ar-15 fire, and taking the lives of innocences, "simple ignorance" i call it blatant hatred.

before i would join a military faction that was obviously going to -destroy- i would do my homework, unless i just simply wanted to kill.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

Need I remind you that Chavez was not only in the venezuelan army but in the special forces as well.

And then he used that training to aid a revoution...

[CNT-FAI]

IMO we need to work with people in the military like other working-class people; many of those out of uniform have similar prejudices & lacunae in their knowledge (as we all do), but they mostly all belong to the same class.

The Vietnam War ended largely because of rebellion in the ranks, which in part was fomented by the "GI cafes" that were set up near many military bases in the US. We need to see how we can work with military people, not revile them.

Don't forget that most of the military is actually opposed to the Iraq war now & further propaganda work can only further this. Maybe we can even learn from them, as we should be learning from other working class people.

Collapse of the US military in Vietnam:
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr...tnam/heinl.html (http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/Vietnam/heinl.html)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

get off it, every enlisted soldier chose that path. nobody has to "join" the military. they join by free will and choice.

In nations where one does not have conscription, yes.

[CNT-FAI]

Even with conscription choice is involved. That choice may be constricted by draconian penalties for resistance, but it still exists. Also free will is conditioned by a variety of factors, so we can't assume that everyone joins with full knowledge & understanding. In most cases, far from it, since as mentioned the military targets the most "ignorant" classes.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You are right. I agree.

[norwegian commie]

IN norway all men over 18 has to join the army or if he cant then atleast must participate in sivil services (hospital, schools, ect..) So i dont agree that all military are stupid.
But i do feel that the military is the killing machine of the capitalist. And we must get rid of this as soon as we can (in communism)

[travisdandy2000]

I support the troops when they shoot their commanding officers. Period.

[Raúl Duke]

I support the troops when they shoot their commanding officers. Period.

QFT

I look at servicemen & women based on their role as a soldier and as normal human beings like you and me.

When it comes to their soldier role, I have nothing but contempt. They are trained first and foremost to obey orders; even if it means to shoot a bunch of protesting civilians or something. The military compley shaps these people into soldiers, and the main thing that defines soldiers is the ability to follow orders.

However, these servicemen are also human, and they can go through many experiences, change their perspective, etc. For example, I can say that maybe in the beginning of these recent conflicts the soldiers wanted to go and kill Osama, Talibans, Saddam, etc. Later on they realize that war isn't what its crack up to be, don't know what they are fighting for, or realize that the war only benefits a specific class.

When servicemen revolt, I would support them just like any other who revolts (depending on context of course; I won't support a reactionary "revolt")
When servicemen obey, I only have contempt.

The same, or something like the same, applies to cops also.

[RNK]

You guys have to keep in mind that militaries like those of the United States and most other Western countries have specifically geared themselves to appeal to poor working-class people with the promise of job security, income and benefits that most people otherwise wouldn't have access to. That isn't to say that all military members are innocent, or even that some are. I'm just trying to point out that not all of them joined to kill "towel-heads" and defend their country. Many join because having free meals for the next 4 years, free dental and free medicare is more appealing than living on the streets. Army recruiters target poor neighbourhoods for a reason.

That said, imperialist soldiers are still the enemy.

[phoenixoftime]

I'm rather lucky, since my military training is free and without any obligation (i.e. I don't have to fight unless the entire country goes to conscription). Proud to be straining the armed forces and providing absolutely no service! Woohoo!