Dictatorship of the Proletariat

[Soviet Stanimir]

The idea of the DOP has become a jumbled one since the creation of the soviet union, and the totaliatarian state that occured after the revolution and civil war. From what i understand of lenin, the DOP is simply a workers state, a democracy in which the working class has a voice.

Im a marxist-leninist and believe that this transition must be implemented.

But, obviosly, i stand against totalitarianism and dictatorship.

I have yet to read everything lenin has wrote, so what exactly is the DOP? A true dictatorship or just a workers state?

[Redmau5]

The DoP is basically the working-class democratically in control of what was the bourgeois state. It is a dictatorship in the sense that one class (the proletariat) dictates to another (the bourgeoisie), the same way the bourgeoisie have a class dictatorship today.

[KC]

Im a marxist-leninist and believe that this transition must be implemented.


The idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat was Marx's, not Lenin's, so saying that you believe this should be implemented doesn't make you a "Marxist-Leninist" but simply a "Marxist".

[Whitten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 03:54 pm
The DoP is basically the working-class democratically in control of what was the bourgeois state. It is a dictatorship in the sense that one class (the proletariat) dictates to another (the bourgeoisie), the same way the bourgeoisie have a class dictatorship today.
Not true. The dictatorship of teh proletariat is incompatable with the old bourgeois state apparatus.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Whitten+February 27, 2007 06:28 pm--> (Whitten @ February 27, 2007 06:28 pm)
[email protected] 27, 2007 03:54 pm
The DoP is basically the working-class democratically in control of what was the bourgeois state. It is a dictatorship in the sense that one class (the proletariat) dictates to another (the bourgeoisie), the same way the bourgeoisie have a class dictatorship today.
Not true. The dictatorship of teh proletariat is incompatable with the old bourgeois state apparatus. [/b]
So what do the Proles take control of exactly?

[Aurora]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/work...rev/ch03.htm#s3 (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch03.htm#s3)

Comrade Soviet this chapter in Lenin's "The State and Revolution" should be helpful. :)

[Aurora]

*shit* comp fucked up

[RedLenin]

so what exactly is the DOP?
The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is the proletariat organized as ruling class for the suppression of the bourgeoisie. It is a transient workers state which exists merely to consolidate the rule of the proletariat and defend the revolution against internal reactionaries and imperialists. This state is necessary simply because we live in a capitalist world dominated by imperialism. As class antagonisms will not cease immediately, and because not all countries will simultaneously have a revolution, the Proletariat needs a state apparatus as a method of defense. Just try imagining what would happen to Venezuela if the workers smashed the old state and tried establishing a loose federation of communes and a loose organizaiton of militias. The force of the imperialist powers and the interal reaction would drown the workers in blood. That is why a centralized, but democratic, workers state is necessary.


A true dictatorship or just a workers state?

Worker's democracy is the key to a healthy workers state. This means four things. Election of all officials with right of recall, no official to be paid a wage higher than an average worker, democratic control over the standing army, and gradually all administrative tasks will be rotated and all of the people will become officials. When everyone is an offical, no one is an offical. This state will wither away as class antagonism and reaction ceases, as it will serve no purpose and because direct democracy will overcome representative democracy. When this has happened throughout the entire world, and when the productive forces have been sufficiently advanced, we will have complete self-management and communism.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Makaveli+February 27, 2007 06:30 pm--> (Makaveli @ February 27, 2007 06:30 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 06:28 pm

[email protected] 27, 2007 03:54 pm
The DoP is basically the working-class democratically in control of what was the bourgeois state. It is a dictatorship in the sense that one class (the proletariat) dictates to another (the bourgeoisie), the same way the bourgeoisie have a class dictatorship today.
Not true. The dictatorship of teh proletariat is incompatable with the old bourgeois state apparatus.
So what do the Proles take control of exactly? [/b]
Society, their towns, work places and their lives.

They dont just sieze control of a naturally capitalist entity, no more than the bourgeois in most countries used a feudal system of government.

[freakazoid]

Worker's democracy is the key to a healthy workers state. This means four things. Election of all officials with right of recall, no official to be paid a wage higher than an average worker, democratic control over the standing army, and gradually all administrative tasks will be rotated and all of the people will become officials. When everyone is an offical, no one is an offical. This state will wither away as class antagonism and reaction ceases, as it will serve no purpose and because direct democracy will overcome representative democracy. When this has happened throughout the entire world, and when the productive forces have been sufficiently advanced, we will have complete self-management and communism.

How is it dissided when things should be disolved? Does it just happen or do the people vote on it or what?

[RedLenin]

How is it dissided when things should be disolved?
It is not decided, it just disolves. The state first loses its function when there are no class antagonisms. Without classes, a state has absolutely no purpose. It would cease to be a state in terms of function. Structurally, it is a little different. I am a propenent of combining direct democracy at the local level with representative democracy nationally and internationally, initially.

Throughout the whole process of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, direct democracy will gradually be increased and spread to more and more areas of state. This will happen until complete direct democracy exists. So the state will loose both it's function and it's representative structure gradually. It will whither away.