Battling Homophobia

[Red Menace]

At my school, and I'm sure in schools, workplaces, homes all across the nation to express displeasure for something it is commonplace to say that something is "gay." How do we combat this? We have to start by correcting and scolding the public. How though? What can we say to stop people dead in their tracks? I know at my school, whenever I try to correct them, they see it as a joke, and refuse to acknowledge that it is homophobic, or that they don't see that it is wrong. How do we stop this?

[Ihavenoidea]

Show them the Emo Boys kissing thread. lol!!!


But realisticly it is a very very unpleasent thing.

Discrimination festers everywhere.. The downfall of the american media will undoubtingly change that significantly. Media mindfucks are going to lead to the downfall of this society..

It will be like a new holocost.. Where the people are a media army. Doing whatever it whims. Slaves to the images comming from the box. The subconcious is a very easily influenced thing. Soon it will be indoctrinated in to our minds.


STOP THE MEDIA ARMY!

[Pandii]

Homophobia -
I hate that it is so rampant amongst people everywhere, and especially where I live in Australia (Home of the yearly gay and lesbian mardi gras!)

Its not only high school students either, its religious icons, and parents alike! Homophobia is especially popular, in my experience, in small country towns. In the small town I used to live in, when two gay men started up an antiques trading store, the town couldn't stop the slander! Yet, this business is the only one in the last 4-5 years that hasn't changed hands or completely shut down. Not that I am proclaiming that gay men make better sales men! :P

However, the point still remains, homophobia is still discrimination! Something I'm openly against!

Although, talking with my partner on this topic in the past, it DOES seem that there aren't THAT many gay people around, and that it may be that I just know alot of gay people.. This still doesn't justify that discrimination DOES happen FAR too much.

In answer to your question, I don't know how to stop it :( Education usually is a good starter...

[Sentinel]

It's not very pleasant to confront collegues or classmates you have to deal with on a daily basis openly and aggressively. But it's the best, if not the only way to stop discrimination in your environment. Someone, one person, speaking clearly out agaist the crap is often enough. 'It's a dirty job but someone has to do it'.

I lashed out quite hard once on a new collegue who said she found male homosexuals 'disgusting'. She was quiet while I yelled at her, as were everyone else in the room. Later on I spoke to her and told her I wasn't straight myself, but that wasn't the point -- lots of young people remain in the closet for years because of remarks like that floating around in their environment.

She then started to cry, and apologised.

After this incident I haven't heard a single openly hostile homophobic comment at work, and even the amount of 'jokes' have gone down to a minimum. Still, I try to point out that such are inappropriate whenever I hear them, but that's not often.

I think I can conclude that this episode made my workplace better in this regard. Ok, they might of course keep saying shit like that behind my back, but actually I doubt it. And it doesn't even really matter that much as I'm here a lot. :D

My advice to everyone is: confront homophobia, it does make a difference and you can be proud of yourself afterwards.

[TC]

Reducing 'battling homophobia' to arguing over politically correct language is so 1990 :-p.

[Jazzratt]

I go to a college in an incredibly (possibly most) sexually open city in England so you would imagine there wouldn't be a lot of homophobia for me to battle in my daily life, and to be honest there isn't as much as there would be elsewhere, but the fact that there is some is pretty damning of the inherent homophobia of our society.

It usually comes in the form of small comments that I try to challenge wherever possible, although I really think I need to openly confront a couple of people on the issue.

Battling homophobia on a larger scale is much harder, but is essential. Personally I think we should embrace all methods from pride parades and public challenging of views to more militant and possibly violent actions, especially against religious homophobes - they are less likely to listen to logic and must be confronted using the 'no platform' method which is showing some success against fascists. We cannot afford to simply use liberal methods, we must engage in militancy.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 10:59 am
It usually comes in the form of small comments that I try to challenge wherever possible, although I really think I need to openly confront a couple of people on the issue.

Battling homophobia on a larger scale is much harder, but is essential. Personally I think we should embrace all methods from pride parades and public challenging of views to more militant and possibly violent actions, especially against religious homophobes - they are less likely to listen to logic and must be confronted using the 'no platform' method which is showing some success against fascists. We cannot afford to simply use liberal methods, we must engage in militancy.
I agree with everything you said. We must combat it on a smaller scale with examples other members have just provided, then we can battle it on a larger, more massive scale, and if we must through militancy.

[manic expression]

If you're talking about people saying "that's gay", it's a colloquial thing, which is tough to combat. You really can't do anything to stop people saying what they want to say, the most you can do is express dislike for its use whenever you hear it.

It's a habitual term, mostly, so it will take time for people to stop using it.

[RASHskins]

The "That's gay" comment is tough to battle after all its a accepted comment in this society. Most people who use it don't even realise what it implies and are not homophobic. Most people are not homophobic but always have that one person who is a asshole and puts you down with gay comments and spreads hate about it. The only way to do anything about it is to correct people when they say it and tell them that it does hurt people with what it implys. Most people will listen and make an effort to stop using the term. One thing is for sure the christian media dosen't help much let's get them out of government and media.

[Red Menace]

I made a promise to myself that anyone that used it around me, I would just tell em off right then and there, friend or foe, and tell them that it will not be tolerated in my presence. And if it's someone I don't like that continues to do it, I guess I won't feel bad for hitting him :D

It will be a difficult thing to combat. Next time it happens, what would you reccomend I or anyone else say to pretty much stop anyone in their tracks?

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 28, 2007 04:51 am
I made a promise to myself that anyone that used it around me, I would just tell em off right then and there, friend or foe, and tell them that it will not be tolerated in my presence. And if it's someone I don't like that continues to do it, I guess I won't feel bad for hitting him :D

It will be a difficult thing to combat. Next time it happens, what would you reccomend I or anyone else say to pretty much stop anyone in their tracks?
Well, to be honest, if you're too brash about it, the reaction will not be what you're looking for. I used to tell people off a lot when I was younger, but the fact is that it doesn't help in many cases (this being one of them).

Just tell them that you don't like them using the word like that, don't make it a big deal, just get people thinking about it. Yelling at someone in this situation gets you nowhere, believe me.

[Chicano Shamrock]

The term "that's gay" is used a lot around here. I noticed when I was younger that we would say "that's jewish" and "that's gay". I then noticed that Jewish has to do with race and when you use that term your are just furthering racism. Then I noticed that the gay term was the same situation. I haven't used the term since I was younger.

I guess the way I try to combat it is to tell the young kids in my family that it isn't cool. I think if we get enough people to stop using the term each then we can cut into the use of it. Just tell people that you don't like sexist terms used in your presence. Even if that sounds lame and they may call you gay it is better to start doing something about it.

[Lenin II]

All of my roommates here at Georgia State are republican assholes—racist, sexist, homophobic, and capitalist…of course. Whenever I say that a woman has the right to choose or homosexuals have the right to be married, they call me fag…of course.
They claim that homosexuality is 0% natural. I show them that some animals fuck each other when they’re the same sex. They claim it’s a dominance thing, or something done out of desperation when there is no opposite sex around. Now they’ve challenged me to find an animal that ONLY fucks the same sex.

Any contributions you guys could give to the argument would be appreciated. If there exists a case against theirs, help me make it.

[Cheung Mo]

Start by refusing to deal with "leftist" organisation that implement or support anti-gay policies *bulldozes statues of Ortega and Humala*

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 11:04 am
All of my roommates here at Georgia State are republican assholes—racist, sexist, homophobic, and capitalist…of course. Whenever I say that a woman has the right to choose or homosexuals have the right to be married, they call me fag…of course.
They claim that homosexuality is 0% natural. I show them that some animals fuck each other when they’re the same sex. They claim it’s a dominance thing, or something done out of desperation when there is no opposite sex around. Now they’ve challenged me to find an animal that ONLY fucks the same sex.

Any contributions you guys could give to the argument would be appreciated. If there exists a case against theirs, help me make it.
I see what you are trying to say to them but the thing is that we are not animals. Whatever animals do is their business but people are supposed to be more evolved than animals. So whatever your roommates point to as being natural with evidence that animals do it all you have to say is that we are not animals. Computers are not natural. The internet is not natural. People have advanced past behaving like animals.

[Lenin II]

Questions for homophobic people:
Homosexuality is not natural? What of animals? Clothing is not natural, nor are computers or religion. Speech is not natural. Maybe you should shut the fuck up. Why do you hate them so much? Why do you care? What if you had a gay child—would you disown him? Why do you think that homosexuals are so unnatural when there are so many of them? How do you explain their continued appearance and survival throughout history? They have been constantly repressed you say? So have blacks. So have Jews. So have Christians. Does that mean we should continue to oppress them? Perhaps we should go back to the old ways, where Jews were gassed and Christians were burned alive? Homosexuality is more natural than religion. You didn’t come out of the womb believing in God or praying, you never did until others told you to. Meanwhile, homosexuals are often born being attracted to those of their own gender.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 08:02 pm
Questions for homophobic people:
Homosexuality is not natural? What of animals? Clothing is not natural, nor are computers or religion. Speech is not natural. Maybe you should shut the fuck up. Why do you hate them so much? Why do you care? What if you had a gay child—would you disown him? Why do you think that homosexuals are so unnatural when there are so many of them? How do you explain their continued appearance and survival throughout history? They have been constantly repressed you say? So have blacks. So have Jews. So have Christians. Does that mean we should continue to oppress them? Perhaps we should go back to the old ways, where Jews were gassed and Christians were burned alive? Homosexuality is more natural than religion. You didn’t come out of the womb believing in God or praying, you never did until others told you to. Meanwhile, homosexuals are often born being attracted to those of their own gender.
Umm was that directed at me? I think you misunderstood my post comrade. I was not implying that homosexuality is not natural. I was implying that if there ever happens to be proof that animals don't have sex with the same gender that wouldn't matter because we are not animals. We are supposed to be civilized people. I think civilized people are supposed to accept people for who they are.

Just so I don't get banned for a misunderstanding. I am all for anyone to be with anyone they want. When I was growing up my mom had lesbian friends. I always thought they were just hippies. When I was 17 I finally found out that they were gay. It never even came into my mind. It was just normal to me since I grew up around them.

[Lenin II]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+March 05, 2007 05:25 am--> (Chicano Shamrock @ March 05, 2007 05:25 am)
[email protected] 04, 2007 08:02 pm
Questions for homophobic people:
Homosexuality is not natural? What of animals? Clothing is not natural, nor are computers or religion. Speech is not natural. Maybe you should shut the fuck up. Why do you hate them so much? Why do you care? What if you had a gay child—would you disown him? Why do you think that homosexuals are so unnatural when there are so many of them? How do you explain their continued appearance and survival throughout history? They have been constantly repressed you say? So have blacks. So have Jews. So have Christians. Does that mean we should continue to oppress them? Perhaps we should go back to the old ways, where Jews were gassed and Christians were burned alive? Homosexuality is more natural than religion. You didn’t come out of the womb believing in God or praying, you never did until others told you to. Meanwhile, homosexuals are often born being attracted to those of their own gender.
Umm was that directed at me? I think you misunderstood my post comrade. I was not implying that homosexuality is not natural. I was implying that if there ever happens to be proof that animals don't have sex with the same gender that wouldn't matter because we are not animals. We are supposed to be civilized people. I think civilized people are supposed to accept people for who they are.

Just so I don't get banned for a misunderstanding. I am all for anyone to be with anyone they want. When I was growing up my mom had lesbian friends. I always thought they were just hippies. When I was 17 I finally found out that they were gay. It never even came into my mind. It was just normal to me since I grew up around them. [/b]
Chill, comrade. That wasn't directed at you. I understood your post. I was merely posting a list of arguments and comebacks for those who seek to battle homophobia.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Ok, cool ;)

[Lenin II]

Homosexuality is very much part of the right-winger and neo-Nazi line of thought. Anti-homosexuality has spread out to the point where it’s on most neo-Nazi, Christian and militia sites. Like abortion, homophobia has become a mainstream issue for conservatives. There are now people who think that homosexuality is a capital offense, that practicing homosexuals should be punished with death.

Typical right-wing bullshit. At the core of all their motivations if FEAR. Fear of anyone not like them.

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 05:48 am
Homosexuality is very much part of the right-winger and neo-Nazi line of thought. Anti-homosexuality has spread out to the point where it’s on most neo-Nazi, Christian and militia sites. Like abortion, homophobia has become a mainstream issue for conservatives. There are now people who think that homosexuality is a capital offense, that practicing homosexuals should be punished with death.

Typical right-wing bullshit. At the core of all their motivations if FEAR. Fear of anyone not like them.
There are far fewer people who believe that now than there were a generation or 2 ago.

[ichneumon]

A: that's so GAY!
me: no, that's not gay, this, here, me, is gay.

[Pilar]

I doubt this can be "solved". I have heard in my lifetime homosexuals using the expression, "that's gay", or call one another "fag". I have heard black people call each other "nigger", and Mexicans call each other "beaner", and white people call each other "cracker". I have heard many call one another these expressions. 99% of the time it is in jest and no one cares.

I'm not saying this is good, but I wonder if there's any kind of solution.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 04:22 am
A: that's so GAY!
me: no, that's not gay, this, here, me, is gay.
If I were gay I think that would be my response every time

[Adam Rand]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 27, 2007 05:55 am
At my school, and I'm sure in schools, workplaces, homes all across the nation to express displeasure for something it is commonplace to say that something is "gay." How do we combat this? We have to start by correcting and scolding the public. How though? What can we say to stop people dead in their tracks? I know at my school, whenever I try to correct them, they see it as a joke, and refuse to acknowledge that it is homophobic, or that they don't see that it is wrong. How do we stop this?
I also don't see how it is homophobic actually. There is true homophobia that needs to be battled. A word that is more used in jest nowadays anyways (by gays themselves even) is hardly the root that has to be fought. If by getting rid of homophobia this side appearance goes too, I will be happy about it. But it is a particularly useful world...and considering it's origins quite entertaining as well.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)A word that is more used in jest nowadays anyways (by gays themselves even) is hardly the root that has to be fought.[/b]

Er, LGBT people usings words like 'gay' etc. in jest is not the same as a hetero person using the same terms; the former being obviously not homophobic, and the latter very often being the opposite - that's the point, sometimes its used to mock homophobes, sometimes it said by homophobes themselves - the latter HAVE to be fought.


AR
But it is a particularly useful world...and considering it's origins quite entertaining as well.

Using 'gay' pejoratively is 'useful' and 'entertaining'? :unsure:

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by black rose+March 09, 2007 09:34 pm--> (black rose @ March 09, 2007 09:34 pm)
AR
But it is a particularly useful world...and considering it's origins quite entertaining as well.

Using 'gay' pejoratively is 'useful' and 'entertaining'? :unsure: [/b]
That's the part that puzzles me. How in the world is the word useful in the context we are talking about. I believe there are other words out there that would do the job.... without making you look like an idiot.

[Adam Rand]

Originally posted by black rose+March 10, 2007 05:34 am--> (black rose @ March 10, 2007 05:34 am)
Originally posted by [email protected]
A word that is more used in jest nowadays anyways (by gays themselves even) is hardly the root that has to be fought.

Er, LGBT people usings words like 'gay' etc. in jest is not the same as a hetero person using the same terms; the former being obviously not homophobic, and the latter very often being the opposite - that's the point, sometimes its used to mock homophobes, sometimes it said by homophobes themselves - the latter HAVE to be fought.


AR
But it is a particularly useful world...and considering it's origins quite entertaining as well.

Using 'gay' pejoratively is 'useful' and 'entertaining'? :unsure: [/b]
Now that's quite a double standard. It is just a word. Isn't it the homophobia that is supposed to be defeated and not the usage of a word?


Well, considering it was meant to be joyful and happy and now it is used to mean...well, I can't think of quite a synonym, but something more opposite is to me amusing.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)Now that's quite a double standard.[/b]

That's absurd, its a 'double standard' to not 'allow' heteros to be homophobic, give me a break.


AR

Isn't it the homophobia that is supposed to be defeated and not the usage of a word?

Yes to the first, and yes to the second if the usage is homophobic.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by AR
Well, considering it was meant to be joyful and happy and now it is used to mean...well, I can't think of quite a synonym, but something more opposite is to me amusing.
That's not amusing at ALL! The reason the meaning changed was because the word was associated with gay people, who are 'undesirable' in our heteronormative and homophobic culture. So if gay people are bad, then gay can become a synonym for bad.

So it's not "amusing," it's actually homophobia in action.

[Adam Rand]

Originally posted by black rose+March 10, 2007 11:23 am--> (black rose @ March 10, 2007 11:23 am)
Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)Now that's quite a double standard.[/b]

That's absurd, its a 'double standard' to not 'allow' heteros to be homophobic, give me a break.


[email protected]

Isn't it the homophobia that is supposed to be defeated and not the usage of a word?

Yes to the first, and yes to the second if the usage is homophobic. [/b]
No, it is a double standard that homosexuals can use a word derogatory and heterosexuals not. You think by forcing someone not to say something you will make them less homophobic? I doubt that works. What we need to stop is real homophobia, not the use of a word associated with homosexuals, but not used in hate.

If it was homophobic. Which it oftentimes isn't.



Mujer Libre

That's not amusing at ALL! The reason the meaning changed was because the word was associated with gay people, who are 'undesirable' in our heteronormative and homophobic culture. So if gay people are bad, then gay can become a synonym for bad.

So it's not "amusing," it's actually homophobia in action.

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.

[Mujer Libre]

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.
Seriously- how the fuck else did you think it came about? :rolleyes:

Now that you know, will you stop using the word?

[Adam Rand]

Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 10, 2007 11:31 am

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.
Seriously- how the fuck else did you think it came about? :rolleyes:

Now that you know, will you stop using the word?
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I knew how the word evolved already. I said I can't see any homophobia in that.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Adam Rand+March 10, 2007 11:34 am--> (Adam Rand @ March 10, 2007 11:34 am)
Mujer [email protected] 10, 2007 11:31 am

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.
Seriously- how the fuck else did you think it came about? :rolleyes:

Now that you know, will you stop using the word?
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I knew how the word evolved already. I said I can't see any homophobia in that. [/b]
You can't?

Gay people are regarded as "others" in our society (others in the sociological sense, i.e. they're deviant, leser etc.) to the extent that the word 'gay' has become a perjorative term.

How is that NOT homophobic? The negative meaning arose directly because of its use to describe queer people. If you can't see that... I dunno...

[Adam Rand]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre+March 10, 2007 11:37 am--> (Mujer Libre @ March 10, 2007 11:37 am)
Originally posted by Adam [email protected] 10, 2007 11:34 am

Mujer [email protected] 10, 2007 11:31 am

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.
Seriously- how the fuck else did you think it came about? :rolleyes:

Now that you know, will you stop using the word?
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I knew how the word evolved already. I said I can't see any homophobia in that.
You can't?

Gay people are regarded as "others" in our society (others in the sociological sense, i.e. they're deviant, leser etc.) to the extent that the word 'gay' has become a perjorative term.

How is that NOT homophobic? The negative meaning arose directly because of its use to describe queer people. If you can't see that... I dunno... [/b]
But if homosexuals can use it in a pejorative way, but heterosexuals not, doesn't that exactly imply that homosexuals are somehow different, with different rights? The word is not what makes them be seen as different, ignorant and bigoted people are, and they have to be fought, not a word that is now commonly used to describke something unpleasant...

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)No, it is a double standard that homosexuals can use a word derogatory and heterosexuals not.[/b]

No, it's not.

You dont seem to understand the difference in context here.

On the one hand you have a gay person using the term to mock homophobia, the usage is ironic.

On the other hand you have a hetero person using the person in a completely un-ironic, ignorant and offensive way, they mean exactly what they're saying, 'thats so gay!' meaning 'thats so shit/crap' etc - i.e. their usage is homophobic as it reinforces the idea that being gay is somehow 'bad', shit etc.

Its completely insulting!


Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)
You think by forcing someone not to say something you will make them less homophobic? I doubt that works. [/b]

Im not saying anyone should be 'forced' to do anything, im merely arguing that its not a 'doublestandard' to say that heteros shouldnt be homophobic.


[email protected]

What we need to stop is real homophobia, not the use of a word associated with homosexuals, but not used in hate.

Latent or subtle homophobia is still homophobia, ignoring casual homophobia only allows for it to continue unchallenged.


AR

If it was homophobic. Which it oftentimes isn't.

Unless its being used in an ironic way (which it is not in the majority of cases) it is implicitly homophobic whether you think or intend it to be or not.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)Well, I don't know it was associated with gays[/b]

How could the word 'gay' not be associated with gay people? That you may be using the word 'gay' to mean 'shit' instead of homosexuality doesnt erase its other, normative meaning.


Originally posted by AR+--> (AR)
when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. [/b]

Why use the word at all? It is very obviously offensive to transform someone sexuality into an insult, why not say what you mean? If you mean shit, say shit, if you mean bad, say bad. Saying 'gay' in place of these words is homophobic, whether you would like to admit this or not.


Originally posted by AR

It's a pretty interesting word I think.

Huh? Im sorry, but i find it pretty insulting that you find homophobic language 'interesting' :wacko:


[email protected]
But if homosexuals can use it in a pejorative way, but heterosexuals not, doesn't that exactly imply that homosexuals are somehow different, with different rights?

First of all, its pretty bizarre to assert that heteros have any 'right' to be homophobic... Second, as i explained in my last post a gay person using 'gay' pejoratively is very different from how heteros commonly use the term.

I.E.

On the one hand you have a gay person using the term to mock homophobia, the usage is ironic.

On the other hand you have a hetero person using the person in a completely un-ironic, ignorant and offensive way, they mean exactly what they're saying, 'thats so gay!' meaning 'thats so shit/crap' etc - i.e. their usage is homophobic as it reinforces the idea that being gay is somehow 'bad', shit etc.


AR

The word is not what makes them be seen as different, ignorant and bigoted people are, and they have to be fought, not a word that is now commonly used to describke something unpleasant..

Except that there is a very obvious link between those 'ignorant and bigoted people' and the casualisation of homophobia in the english language. Ironically you seem to have fallen victim to precisely this, to you homophobic is so ordinary, every day that you cant even comprehend how it could be prejudiced or offensive, despite the very obvious homophobia at play; gay = bad/shit/etc.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Adam Rand+March 10, 2007 03:41 am--> (Adam Rand @ March 10, 2007 03:41 am)
Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 10, 2007 11:37 am

Originally posted by Adam [email protected] 10, 2007 11:34 am

Mujer [email protected] 10, 2007 11:31 am

Well, I don't know it was associated with gays, and still is and at least when I use it for homosexuals it is not derogatory while when I use it for something that is annoying or stupid it hasn't got anything to do with homosexuals. It's a pretty interesting word I think.
Seriously- how the fuck else did you think it came about? :rolleyes:

Now that you know, will you stop using the word?
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I knew how the word evolved already. I said I can't see any homophobia in that.
You can't?

Gay people are regarded as "others" in our society (others in the sociological sense, i.e. they're deviant, leser etc.) to the extent that the word 'gay' has become a perjorative term.

How is that NOT homophobic? The negative meaning arose directly because of its use to describe queer people. If you can't see that... I dunno...
But if homosexuals can use it in a pejorative way, but heterosexuals not, doesn't that exactly imply that homosexuals are somehow different, with different rights? The word is not what makes them be seen as different, ignorant and bigoted people are, and they have to be fought, not a word that is now commonly used to describke something unpleasant... [/b]
Words have different meanings when different people use them. When an oppressor(Heteros) calls the oppressed(Homos) a name that has to do with them being gay or they use the word as a synonym for stupid, weak or bad it carries a different meaning than if someone was gay and did it. I really don't think you understand much because you are using the same lines to justify your homophobia that white supremacists use to justify their racist beliefs. The white supremacists justify their racist behavior by saying "blacks are racist too" or "blacks had slaves in Africa too" or whatever those other dumb arguments are.

It really doesn't matter what the oppressed say because as long as you are part of the oppressing group everytime you use those words you are advancing homophobia in society. It desensitizes everyone to homophobia. Gay now means stupid, weak or bad because that is how society looks at gays. Are you even a leftist Adam? Every thread I have seen you in you have said either communism won't work or that there is nothing wrong with homophobia. What's next KKK are freedom fighters?

[Chrisso]

My cousin is a gay young man. He is 20 years old, and works in the local gay/lesbian bar. His parents refused to accept he was gay for years, despite his career choice and his behaviour. I mean, he would go out dressed in high heels, and they still wouldn't accept it.

It baffled me and my parents. We are all very much for gay rights, and even as a heterosexual I was irritated by the 'civil partnership' laws; why can't we call it marriage?

In a day of supposed harmony and non-discrimination, gays get the biggest bashing out of the lot, it needs to stop.

[ichneumon]

actually, i'm mostly puzzled by the gay=bad bit. i've been known to say "no, i can't wear that shirt, it's just too gay". but that just means what it means (ie, it's a black turtleneck with "abercrombie and finch" stenciled on front). i'm guessing the gay=bad bit is a reaction to teenagers coming out, which is more and more common.

[molecular transmutation]

In this day and age, the new thing to discriminate is the homosexual community (trying to sound political correct), before, it was the hispanics (me), asian, oriental looking, afro-americans, and at the beggining, women.

I certainly do not see a problem with those whom identify themselves as gay, bi-sexual, or anything else im missing (quite a few, i know, the list is too long). Many teens have some period in which they sexually confused and having an identity crisis certainly does not help, along with discrimination. However, people have become to be more open minded about it. I have a few gay friends and i dont mind at all, they even hug me and i hug in return.

I dont think it matters what you like, we are all human.

On second it kind of does matter what you like, PEDOPHILES ARE SICK!!!!!! :wacko: well anything that is not out of the norm or obscured normacy.

Also, many who do identify themselves as gay, are just searching for what they want, not really sure, so they expirament. I per4sonally think that those who have a problem with gays, have a problem themselves, because people are people no matter what

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by molecular transmutation+--> (molecular transmutation)On second it kind of does matter what you like, PEDOPHILES ARE SICK!!!!!! [/b]

Im quite sure of the relevance of pedophilia in a discussion about homophobia?


molecular transmutation

well anything that is not out of the norm or obscured normacy.

This sort of view is precisely what fosters heterosexism - gay men, lesbians, bi and trans peoples are all 'out of the norm' (heterosexuality) - we all 'obscure normalcy' in that sense - in fact many queer peoples actively obscure these norms (such as gender roles) in the way they dress, as well as obviously in sexual relationships.

There is nothing 'sick' about being outside of social norms, judging people on that basis is what leads to queer-bashing, verbal abuse etc etc.