MARCH 17

[Revolutionary Souljah]

whats the word on this one?

im curious if anyone can guess how big the bloc is gonna be?

it's the pentagon, they'll only let us advance so far...

we should come strapped with some special sauce ;) ;) ;) :D

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Should be pretty good. ANSWER and WCW are putting all efforts into here, I'll be going to a planning meeting on wednesday. It should be more militant then the UFPJ events.

[Fawkes]

I think I'm going to this on an ANSWER bus. Is anyone else planning on going? Here are the buses:

http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?..._transportation (http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_M17_transportation)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Troops Out Now (WWP front) and United For Peace and Justice (CPUSA front) are organizing for this too.. though Troops Out Now is organizing a demo under the Washington Monument, while the others are organizing a march on the Pentagon. Still, should be a pretty big event.

The Shut Down The War Machine Campaign (http://www.shutdownthewarmachine.com) is trying to get 100,000 leaflets printed to distribute at the protest. If you can help with copies, donations to pay for printing them, or want to help distribute them on March 17, contact them.

The FPM is also sending a contingent made up of members from several parts of the Eastern US. If anyone needs a ride, someone may be able to help you out.. email [email protected]

[Fawkes]

Yeah, I just bought my ticket, other people should definitely try to go to this.

[Revolutionary Souljah]

honestly we need to actually fight the pigs this time and i mean in a collective and professional manner

[blake 3:17]

In Toronto:

Rally - March - Giant Peace SignSaturday, March 17 at 1:00 pm
United States Consulate
360 University Avenue

On the four-year anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, people all over the world will demonstrate - yet again - their continued opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And as George W. Bush attempts to spread the war beyond Iraq, the anti-war movement will raise the slogan, "Don't attack Iran!"

In Toronto, the Toronto Coalition to Stop the War will be part of the pan-Canadian day of action called by the Canadian Peace Alliance and the Collectif Échec à la guerre (see call-out below).

1:00 pm : Rally at United States Consulate, 360 University Avenue; followed by a march through downtown Toronto.

Organized by the Toronto Coalition to Stop the War.

3:00 pm : Rally at Nathan Phillips Square, 100 Queen Street West; followed by the formation of a giant, "live" peace symbol.

Organized by the Hiroshima Day Coalition and the Humanist Movement.

Joint call to action:
Pan-Canadian day of action on March 17, 2007
Issued by the Canadian Peace Alliance and Collectif Échec à la guerre.

For updates, please visit www.acp-cpa.ca and www.echecalaguerre.org.

http://nowar.ca/

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 28, 2007 11:30 pm
honestly we need to actually fight the pigs this time and i mean in a collective and professional manner
Are you going to DC?

[The Grey Blur]

Isn't March 17 St. Patrick's Day?

[Fawkes]

Yeah. Speaking of St. Patrick's Day, look at this pic of the Chicago River from Wikipedia on St. Patty's Day:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Chicago_River_dyed_green%2C_focus_on_river.jpg

[OneBrickOneVoice]

yo fawkes, I'm going maybe we can meet up. NYC is sending at least 30 buses already and planning officially started yesterday here.

[Fawkes]

You're going to the DC one? Sweet, I think some others are going as well like violencia.Proletariat. We should all meet up. Anyway, when I find out who else is going I'll PM you and we can try to arrange something.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

cool

http://answer.pephost.org/images/content/pagebuilder/49203.jpg
http://www.worldcantwait.net/images/webgraphics/march17m.gif

Here are some graphics. put them up all over the net.

PDF

http://www.worldcantwait.net/flier/march17.pdf

[Fawkes]

GO TO THIS!

[OneBrickOneVoice]

So who is going aside from Me, Fawkes, RS, and CdL?

[Guerrilla22]

I honestly want to go to this, I'm trying to find transportation.

[BreadBros]

In all likelihood I will be going to this although its not for sure (havent bought my ticket yet).

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 12:21 pm
I honestly want to go to this, I'm trying to find transportation.
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?..._transportation

[Janus]

Isn't March 17 St. Patrick's Day?
Aren't you Irish? :P

Well, we can always attend the march and then get drunk.

[Fawkes]

Aren't you Irish?
Haha, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:43 pm

Isn't March 17 St. Patrick's Day?
Aren't you Irish? :P
:lol: Yeah but I'm bad with dates. Won't there be some sort of conflict (I mean logistically) between the two marches?

[Fawkes]

Do you mean will one march steal people from the other, or the two marches' paths will collide (AHHHHHH!!!!)? Either way, if it is a problem at all, it would be a minimal one.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 11:08 pm
Do you mean will one march steal people from the other
That one.

[Fawkes]

I think most of the people in the March on the Pentagon march will have come from outside of DC and as a result will not feel to much of an urge to join the green hordes. I really think that, even if it is a problem, it would be a minimal one.

[RASHskins]

Is there one in Calgary, Canada? Or am i gonna have to be a one man rally.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

yo shit, they should happen simultaneously at the same place. A bunch of green hordes should just storm the pentagon lol

[Fawkes]

A green bloc drunk from innumerable pints of Guinness dyed green will storm the Pentagon spray-painting shamrocks all over it and than follow the rainbow cast in the sky to the enormous pots of gold at the U.S. Mint (there isn't any gold there) where traditional Irish step-dancing will take place to some punk rock music blaring through the speakers.

How's that for a celebration?

[Red October]

im going to try really hard to make it. is there a specific place where all the revleft comrades are meeting?

and when are the buses coming back? if this is an overnight thing, where might a comrade with very little money crash?

[Fawkes]

I think the buses are coming back at the same time they left. Check out the list of buses for more specific information. As far as I know, it is not an overnight thing except for the bus ride. So far, there is no specific place that all RevLefters are meeting, though once it is determined who else is going we should try to establish a meet-up place.

[Red October]

sweet. the bus for my town is leaving on saturday night so i wont need a place to crash...unless its in a jail cell. does anyone have recommendations on stuff to bring? i was thinking of bringing the standard stuff like black clothing, face mask, and then some spraypaint and other shit like that.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 07, 2007 01:09 am
sweet. the bus for my town is leaving on saturday night so i wont need a place to crash...unless its in a jail cell. does anyone have recommendations on stuff to bring? i was thinking of bringing the standard stuff like black clothing, face mask, and then some spraypaint and other shit like that.
I think the NYC RCP/RCYB will be organizing a red flag brigade with drums, but that hasn't come together yet. Anyhow, If you do have a red flag, Red cloth, or acess to something like that bring it.

[BreadBros]

Transportation info for those who still need it: http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?..._transportation (http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_M17_transportation)

Im still not sure if I'll be able to go. However, if I can throw out one suggestion, yall could meet up with the Youth & Student Contingent: http://www.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=M17_youth . Or a RevLeft independent group? O_O

[Red October]

i think we should organize into a revleft group

[Fawkes]

I think SDS is organizing another bloc.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 09:08 pm
I think SDS is organizing another bloc.
Any info or links about that?

The last big protest in January I heard that they were intermingling with the black bloq?

[Fawkes]

To be honest, I actually only heard that from violencia.Proletariat, though I'll try to find some more information about it.

[bezdomni]

Red Heretic and I will be going with the Houston RCYB.

[Zero]

Oh shit, theres actually a bus leaving from Portland to go to D.C.

Shit thats like a 10 day trip.

[Pawn Power]

By the way, I'm probably going.

[RedStaredRevolution]

my friend and i going up with red october, so if he's going i can go for sure

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 03:56 am
Red Heretic and I will be going with the Houston RCYB.
sweet dude, the NYC RCYB/Revolution contingent should meet up with the Houston. Actually I'll just PM you.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

PM me if you're interested in joining the Red Flag Contingent. ALL people who consider themselves communists and socialists should be down for this.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+March 07, 2007 02:22 am--> (Pawn Power @ March 07, 2007 02:22 am)
[email protected] 06, 2007 09:08 pm
I think SDS is organizing another bloc.
Any info or links about that?

The last big protest in January I heard that they were intermingling with the black bloq? [/b]
I marched with the SDS bloc at J27. It was pretty cool. I thought they were focusing on building student protests on March 20th though, or will there also be a SDS group at March 17th?


PM me if you're interested in joining the Red Flag Contingent. ALL people who consider themselves communists and socialists should be down for this.

Why? Whats the difference between a Red Flag Contingent and just a normal RCP contingent other than the emphasis on the flags? Or is this some wider alliance type deal?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 04:03 am
Why? Whats the difference between a Red Flag Contingent and just a normal RCP contingent other than the emphasis on the flags? Or is this some wider alliance type deal?
I'm not sure yet how it'll work. On May Day last year here in NYC (and elsewhere) there was a "red flag contingent" and at its peak quite a few people joined in from what I've heard.

I don't think it'll be limited to RCP supporters, but none of the sectarian bullshit would be allowed.

[Genosse Kotze]

Alright, I've only been to one, small protest before and I didn't enjoy it. I heard about it on the radio and when I got there it was just a bunch of people standing around in a fenced off area. Plus, I didn't know anyone who'd have been down to go, so went alone and really didn't dig it. But I don't like sitting around on my ass either. So, I have a few questions. 1) Could somebody post a link that would have info about transportation from NYC down to DC? 2) What sort of shit should I bring? 3) I have zero militant protest experience, so I need a crash course in just how this sort of thing works (do we start hurling Molotov cocktails right when we get off the bus or…?)
I feel like such a lame ass for asking these sorts of questions, but any asshole can be a communist sitting in front of a computer screen, and since I’ve just heard about this, and I do have the opportunity to go, there’s really no excuse not to.

[Fawkes]

Bus list. (http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?..._transportation)

Things to bring to actions. (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=40074&st=0&hl=rioters+bloc)

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I have zero militant protest experience, so I need a crash course in just how this sort of thing works (do we start hurling Molotov cocktails right when we get off the bus or…?)

:lol: I wish

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by keine Kaufhalle mehr!@March 09, 2007 12:49 am
\ I have zero militant protest experience, so I need a crash course in just how this sort of thing works (do we start hurling Molotov cocktails right when we get off the bus or…?)
Not at all. There will be hundreds of thousands of people there and everyone will march between a fenced in designated street area. Business as usual will continue at the Pentagon.

[Red October]

i hope to attend the march 17 protests in washington, but i need some info on them. like is this supposed to be a more militant protest that will involve violence (tear gas, riot police, etc) or is it just a peaceful march? will it be necessary to bring pads and shit? and since i dont have a gasmask, will a black bandana work to protect from gas?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+March 09, 2007 12:44 am--> (LeftyHenry @ March 09, 2007 12:44 am)
[email protected] 08, 2007 04:03 am
Why? Whats the difference between a Red Flag Contingent and just a normal RCP contingent other than the emphasis on the flags? Or is this some wider alliance type deal?
I'm not sure yet how it'll work. On May Day last year here in NYC (and elsewhere) there was a "red flag contingent" and at its peak quite a few people joined in from what I've heard.

I don't think it'll be limited to RCP supporters, but none of the sectarian bullshit would be allowed. [/b]
scratch this. There will be a Revolution Contingent which will carry red flags in solidarity. It will be RCP organized so supporters of the RCP or people who want to march under the theme of revolutionary communism should join us.

[An archist]

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 10, 2007 03:18 pm
everyone will march between a fenced in designated street area. Business as usual will continue at the Pentagon.
that's fucked up

[Red October]

Originally posted by An archist+March 11, 2007 08:50 pm--> (An archist @ March 11, 2007 08:50 pm)
Pawn [email protected] 10, 2007 03:18 pm
everyone will march between a fenced in designated street area. Business as usual will continue at the Pentagon.
that's fucked up [/b]
if we have enough people i doubt they will be able to contain everyone and maintain order. what would happen if someone busted through the cordon?

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 11, 2007 05:44 pm
since i dont have a gasmask, will a black bandana work to protect from gas?
No, black bandanas don't work for that. You'll need a different color.

[Ze]

Originally posted by Red October+March 12, 2007 08:03 am--> (Red October @ March 12, 2007 08:03 am)
Originally posted by An [email protected] 11, 2007 08:50 pm

Pawn [email protected] 10, 2007 03:18 pm
everyone will march between a fenced in designated street area. Business as usual will continue at the Pentagon.
that's fucked up
if we have enough people i doubt they will be able to contain everyone and maintain order. what would happen if someone busted through the cordon? [/b]
police in dual seater motorcycles ride up to form a blockade. horses may be used as well. i know from experience.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Who is up for burning an American flag? I'll bring the flag and lighter, can someone else bring the lighter fluid. Cool. PM me.

[Red October]

im down for that

[RNK]

Try to find a Canadian and British flag to burn as well. And if anyone complains, tell them that a Canadian comrade said it was okay. ;)

[Pawn Power]

Just bought my ticket. Fuckin' $25. We all better shut this here war down!

[Aurora]

how'd it go comrades?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

It was alright until the end. A comrade of mine got arrested, but now he has been released. The RCP/RCYB, SDS, and Black Bloc were confronting the state riot pigs, and when we marched back to DC to occupy a recruitment center, we halted traffic, and without warning, were attacked by pigs who beat us down with their nightsticks.

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 10:02 pm
It was alright until the end. A comrade of mine got arrested, but now he has been released. The RCP/RCYB, SDS, and Black Bloc were confronting the state riot pigs, and when we marched back to DC to occupy a recruitment center, we halted traffic, and without warning, were attacked by pigs who beat us down with their nightsticks.
fawkes and i got out of the arrest zone quickly and i didnt look around to see the beatings and arrests. how much police brutality was there?

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Red October+March 18, 2007 03:43 am--> (Red October @ March 18, 2007 03:43 am)
[email protected] 17, 2007 10:02 pm
It was alright until the end. A comrade of mine got arrested, but now he has been released. The RCP/RCYB, SDS, and Black Bloc were confronting the state riot pigs, and when we marched back to DC to occupy a recruitment center, we halted traffic, and without warning, were attacked by pigs who beat us down with their nightsticks.
fawkes and i got out of the arrest zone quickly and i didnt look around to see the beatings and arrests. how much police brutality was there? [/b]
I didn't see everything since I didn't wait around too long once the cops rushed us (which may have been a mistake, but who knows), but I did see a cops tackle a bunch of protestors. The cops definitely grabbed them and put their faces into the ground pretty quick, but I didn't see whether they were using nightsticks or not.

At any rate, they rushed us without any real warning, both from the back and from the side. They were also trying to break us up with police cars before that point.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by manic expression+March 18, 2007 04:03 am--> (manic expression @ March 18, 2007 04:03 am)
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18, 2007 03:43 am

[email protected] 17, 2007 10:02 pm
It was alright until the end. A comrade of mine got arrested, but now he has been released. The RCP/RCYB, SDS, and Black Bloc were confronting the state riot pigs, and when we marched back to DC to occupy a recruitment center, we halted traffic, and without warning, were attacked by pigs who beat us down with their nightsticks.
fawkes and i got out of the arrest zone quickly and i didnt look around to see the beatings and arrests. how much police brutality was there?
I didn't see everything since I didn't wait around too long once the cops rushed us (which may have been a mistake, but who knows), but I did see a cops tackle a bunch of protestors. The cops definitely grabbed them and put their faces into the ground pretty quick, but I didn't see whether they were using nightsticks or not.

At any rate, they rushed us without any real warning, both from the back and from the side. They were also trying to break us up with police cars before that point. [/b]
Yeah, I split pretty quickly too. Supposedly they arrested 5 people.

I also found out that the reason they waited till we crossed the bridge was that they weren't allowed to make a mass arrest until we crossed the river thus being in DCPD jurisdiction rather than Virginian jurisdiction.

[RNK]

That's sad. There was absolutely no trouble from police here. And only 3 people yelled at the flag burning.

[Fawkes]

Red October and I were hanging an American flag upside down for all the pro-war demonstrators to see. They were getting so pissed off until eventually a big group of them rushed over and grabbed it --- while letting it touch the ground.

The worst part was that the first guy arrested was in fact a journalist that was trying to reach an agreement between the bloc and the pigs. The line of riot police just opened up and they pulled him in and threw him on the ground.

I was lucky when the bloc got back to the other side of the bridge because the cops came from both the back and the left, and I was in the front on the right, so it was easy for me to get away even when they had their stupid little bikes. I would post pictures from it up here, but I lost my camera while running from the cops :(.

[Red October]

look at the cnn article on it:


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Thousands of anti-war demonstrators and supporters of the U.S. policy in Iraq shouted at each other Saturday from opposite sides of a street bordering the National Mall as protesters formed a march to the Pentagon to denounce a war entering its fifth year.

The anti-war group carried signs saying "U.S. Out of Iraq Now," "Stop Iraq War, No Iran War, Impeach" and "Illegal Combat." The other side carried signs saying "Peace Through Strength," "al Qaeda Appeasers On Parade" and "We Are At War, Liberals Root For the Enemy."

Police on horseback and foot separated the demonstrators, who were on opposite sides of Constitution Avenue in view of the Lincoln Memorial. Barriers also kept them apart.

But war protester Susanne Shine of Boone, North Carolina, found herself in a crowd of counterdemonstrators. She came out in tears, with her sign in shreds.

"They ripped up my peace sign," she said.

Thousands crossed the Potomac River from the Lincoln Memorial to rally loudly but peacefully near the Pentagon.

"We're here in the shadow of the war machine," said anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan, whose soldier son was killed in Iraq. (Watch Sheehan march with a throng of protesters Video)

"It's like being in the shadow of the Death Star," she said, referring to the planet-sized warship in the movie "Star Wars." "They take their death and destruction and they export it around the world. We need to shut it down."

Speakers blamed congressional Democrats, too, for refusing to cut off money for the war.

"This is a bipartisan war," New York City labor activist Michael Letwin told the crowd. "The Democratic Party cannot be trusted to end it." Letwin said the key to ending the war soon is to bring more troops and their families into the protest movement.

An hour into the three-hour rally, with the temperature near freezing, fewer than 1,000 protesters were left.

Police reported no arrests Saturday, after more than 200 Friday night.

People traveled from afar in stormy weather to join the march.


wtf?? the pigs say they didnt arrest anyone!

[Revolutionary Souljah]

what is up with american blocs?

i just saw videos on dc indymedia, the pigs had gas masks, clubs, and shields, ready for us to do something, but all i saw was people dressed up as leprechauns dancing...

http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/138323/index.php# (first vid)

considering we live in the heart of the beast, you would think that these so called 'leftists' could grow a pair and show solidarity at the level of our greek comrades...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Zy6zWeCbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frfu2xXP91g

unfortunately here we have fake leftists not willing to fight the pigs, not willing to get arrested or even help unarrest people, and never willing to put their beliefs into practice

i say we cut the bullshit and at the next big march, do something worth talking about

[Red October]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 12:44 pm
what is up with american blocs?

i just saw videos on dc indymedia, the pigs had gas masks, clubs, and shields, ready for us to do something, but all i saw was people dressed up as leprechauns dancing...

http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/138323/index.php# (first vid)

considering we live in the heart of the beast, you would think that these so called 'leftists' could grow a pair and show solidarity at the level of our greek comrades...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Zy6zWeCbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frfu2xXP91g

unfortunately here we have fake leftists not willing to fight the pigs, not willing to get arrested or even help unarrest people, and never willing to put their beliefs into practice

i say we cut the bullshit and at the next big march, do something worth talking about
those arent videos of the black bloc, those are other parts of the march. the black bloc was actually involved in confrontations with the pigs.

[Fawkes]

Though, admittedly, the bloc still didn't accomplish very much. Instead of sitting around deciding what to do and allowing the pigs to call in reinforcements, we should have marched into Arlington where there were plenty of targets, specifically Raytheon (defense contractor).

[Revolutionary Souljah]

and what exactly are "confrontations"?

there is no movement in the US, because the so called 'revolutionaries' here are mostly middle class white kids

i already know that im gonna get shit for saying that, but i believe that its true. the working class is the revolutionary class as most of you would agree, and these marches are made up of mostly non-working class people. therefore none of these american "anti-war" marches are gonna be revolutionary, and from what ive seen so far neither are the people in them

[Red October]

i wish we had gone into arlington too. the people with the DIY shields tried to push through the cops at the beginning, but they didnt succeed. if we did, we would have had to leave most of the other protesters behind. we dont want all the small children and old people to be surrounded by riot cops and teargassed.

[Fawkes]

middle class white kids

Obviously most of the people in this bloc were kids considering the main organizations that formed the bloc were Students for a Democratic Society and the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade. I don't know how many of them were middle class because I was unable to tell but I can say with certainty that, while the majority was white, definitely not all of the people by any measure were white.

[Red October]

the march had lots of diversity in terms of race, gender, and economic background. it is unfair and inaccurate to call it "middle class". there were workers from all over the country there. dont be so quick to condemn leftists in america just because you think theyre too white or whatever.

[Revolutionary Souljah]

I don't know how many of them were middle class because I was unable to tell

its difficult to tell someones class by just looking at them, but unless youre a working class person in the DC area, its very hard for working class people to go to rallies like this cause they require money that at least i didn't have

honestly, after paying rent, car payements, insurance, food, gas, etc i have like 50-100 bucks extra a month, and my room mates and i voted on going and we decided instead to do other things with our extra money this month (aka have something to smoke on)

but my point is working class people do not attend these events for many reasons, whether theyre indoctrinated, ignorant, or broke, it just doesn't happen...and that needs to change if you wanna see any molotovs getting thrown

[Red October]

we decided instead to do other things with our extra money this month (aka have something to smoke on)

thats pretty damn revolutionary. lets get high instead of protesting something and showing solidarity.

[Revolutionary Souljah]

youre right, smoking is about as revolutionary as these marches

ive been to two, they were both a waste of time and money, you wanna fight the cops next time ill be right there with you comrade red october

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 12:57 pm
Though, admittedly, the bloc still didn't accomplish very much. Instead of sitting around deciding what to do and allowing the pigs to call in reinforcements, we should have marched into Arlington where there were plenty of targets, specifically Raytheon (defense contractor).
I think one of the problems was when after we broke from the rest of the march and passed the cop cars we went a bit to fast that created a massive gap bettwen the bloc and the rest of the other protesters that where following. Then we approched the police line blocking the road to the pentagon we stoped and sat down to decide what to do and more police came...after that it was done. It was really not possible to advance any farther (whatever that would have done anyway).

I didn't go back with the bloc to washington because I had to catch my bus back to Philly.

Either way, i had a good time. It wasn't as cold as I thought it would be.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 01:37 pm
youre right, smoking is about as revolutionary as these marches

ive been to two, they were both a waste of time and money, you wanna fight the cops next time ill be right there with you comrade red october
After you fight the cops, then what? Then your revolutionary? Then a revolution starts?

[Revolutionary Souljah]

After you fight the cops, then what? Then your revolutionary? Then a revolution starts?

if you dont think fighting cops is at least at some degree a revolutionary act, than you are no revolutionary my friend

go read some gramsci if you wanna know how and when the revolution can happen in this day and age

[Fawkes]

but my point is working class people do not attend these events for many reasons, whether theyre indoctrinated, ignorant, or broke, it just doesn't happen...and that needs to change if you wanna see any molotovs getting thrown
Of course I think we need to get the working class more involved in these actions. Actually, that bloc had a relatively good amount of potential to do something meaningful --- i.e. go to the Raytheon building or the recruitment center --- but it was held up when we stopped to do debate about what to do while letting the cops call in reinforcements. There was no need to stop and debate what to do, there was pretty much two decisions and those were continue and fight the cops or go back to DC. Whomever wanted to go back to DC should have and left the rest of the bloc to go into Arlington.


I didn't go back with the bloc to washington because I had to catch my bus back to Philly.
The way back over the Memorial Bridge (or whatever it's called) was cool because we marched in a relatively organized fashion and we were able to get about 1/4 of the people in cars to give us thumbs-up or to honk for us. Once we got back into DC near the original protest area, the cops came from the front on bikes and from the back on foot and motorcycle, so it kind of broke up after that.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 02:05 pm

After you fight the cops, then what? Then your revolutionary? Then a revolution starts?

if you dont think fighting cops is at least at some degree a revolutionary act, than you are no revolutionary my friend

go read some gramsci if you wanna know how and when the revolution can happen in this day and age
I didn't say it couldn't be a "revolutionary" act. I would say it can is some situations. However, simply fighting the cops doesn't make one a revolutionary. The situation and reason are for such acts is the determinant, not the act itself.

I have a lot of things I want to read. Gramsci isn't high on the list right now and doubt he as all the answers in how to combate the powers that be. Even though the bloc did not physically fight the cops it was still and experimental and learning experence. That, at least, was something benifical to come out of a somewhat weak protest.

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 02:14 pm

but my point is working class people do not attend these events for many reasons, whether theyre indoctrinated, ignorant, or broke, it just doesn't happen...and that needs to change if you wanna see any molotovs getting thrown
Of course I think we need to get the working class more involved in these actions. Actually, that bloc had a relatively good amount of potential to do something meaningful --- i.e. go to the Raytheon building or the recruitment center --- but it was held up when we stopped to do debate about what to do while letting the cops call in reinforcements. There was no need to stop and debate what to do, there was pretty much two decisions and those were continue and fight the cops or go back to DC. Whomever wanted to go back to DC should have and left the rest of the bloc to go into Arlington.


I didn't go back with the bloc to washington because I had to catch my bus back to Philly.
The way back over the Memorial Bridge (or whatever it's called) was cool because we marched in a relatively organized fashion and we were able to get about 1/4 of the people in cars to give us thumbs-up or to honk for us. Once we got back into DC near the original protest area, the cops came from the front on bikes and from the back on foot and motorcycle, so it kind of broke up after that.
i still dont know if the bloc could have actually made it to raytheon or any other important spot if we had fought the pigs instead of sitting down. they were pretty quick with the backup so we would have been quickly surrounded and outnumbered.

[Revolutionary Souljah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJvQ8U9sbw

when it got to that point, why do you sit down?

from there you should have pressed forward, when they started hitting you with batons or tear gas you should have thrown molotovs or started hitting them back

if you were to break up their line, you could have kept going towards the pentagon and they might have been forced to shut it down if they felt the march became a security risk...thus disrupting pentagon affairs for a few hours at least and costing the state millions of dollars in that time period

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 02:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJvQ8U9sbw

when it got to that point, why do you sit down?

from there you should have pressed forward, when they started hitting you with batons or tear gas you should have thrown molotovs or started hitting them back

if you were to break up their line, you could have kept going towards the pentagon and they might have been forced to shut it down if they felt the march became a security risk...thus disrupting pentagon affairs for a few hours at least and costing the state millions of dollars in that time period
A majority of the front lines pushing against the cops were kids, 16-19 and skinny. Those riot police were no less then 220 pounds a piece. They were all very big. I just don't think, even if they wanted to, they could have physically pushed through the police lines. It just wasn't physically possible. I don't know if anyone had molotovs or if it would have been useful to use them.

Then what? Raid the pentagon? The rest of the protest went in a different direction. The 1000 people that where there would not have interupted the pentagon at all. Business as usual. And what is a millions of dollars to the U$ go? Nothing! They waste millions hourly in Iraq. Merely pennies to them.

I benifite that could have come out of it if the lines were broken is increased media coverage and increase awareness for the other ani-war protesters that it is a serious situation and the police are not on our side and are not present to make peace but to protect those in power.

I think things could have been done differently but the critisim you give is foolish revolutioary masterbation.

[Red October]

no one had molotovs. i had lighter fluid, but that was for burning a flag. the plan was to go to the recruitment center and destroy it, but the march was broken up by then and there was no way we could have fought back with any success. we were outnumbered and outgunned so there wasnt a whole lot we could actually do.

[Revolutionary Souljah]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18, 2007 07:58 pm
the plan was to go to the recruitment center and destroy it, but the march was broken up by then and there was no way we could have fought back with any success. we were outnumbered and outgunned so there wasnt a whole lot we could actually do.
yeah when i went to S24 in DC thats the exact same thing that happened

protests arent gonna be extremely helpful in terms of revolution anyways, but it seems thats the only kind of practice some of these leftists are willing to do

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 07:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJvQ8U9sbw

when it got to that point, why do you sit down?

from there you should have pressed forward, when they started hitting you with batons or tear gas you should have thrown molotovs or started hitting them back

if you were to break up their line, you could have kept going towards the pentagon and they might have been forced to shut it down if they felt the march became a security risk...thus disrupting pentagon affairs for a few hours at least and costing the state millions of dollars in that time period
Please don't talk about stuff you scarcely understand. I was in that crowd, and it was abundantly clear that we were at a disadvantage in many ways. First, our group was unarmed, undisciplined and without any real leadership. Secondly, the cop line stretched a lot farther across the street, whereas we only occupied one side of the street; anyone who knows anything about tactics can tell you we were extremely vulnerable to being flanked (do you know what happens to untrained and intimidated people when they're flanked?). Lastly, they had gas and we had neither gas masks nor anything to respond with.

So, we were at a big disadvantage.

By the way, I'm pretty sure no one was in the Pentagon at that point.

[RNK]

The mere fact that nobody did anything is an indication of how much it would have failed. Taking on riot police requires extreme determination and self-sacrafice, because more than likely you're going to be shot in the face with a rubber bullet, beaten with a plexiglass shield or blinded with pepperspray, and then have your body blown away by a massive jet of water. The "riot culture" in the US is simply not experienced enough to be able to successfully deal with that. And even if they had attacked the police -- what then? Would they move on to the Pentagon? And then what? Occupy it? The Pentagon is a gigantic place. A couple hundred protesters ain't gonna do shit, particularly when the US Army deployes a few thousand troops with M-16's.

I liked the idea of getting to that recruitment center and destroying it. That, atleast, is a realistic accomplishment. It certainly isn't going to change the course of the war, or cripple the military's ability to recruit new toy soldiers, but it would have been a very loud political message that could hardly be ignored.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 02:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJvQ8U9sbw

when it got to that point, why do you sit down?

from there you should have pressed forward, when they started hitting you with batons or tear gas you should have thrown molotovs or started hitting them back

if you were to break up their line, you could have kept going towards the pentagon and they might have been forced to shut it down if they felt the march became a security risk...thus disrupting pentagon affairs for a few hours at least and costing the state millions of dollars in that time period
Like manic already stated, we were not sufficiently armed or organized to take on the cops. And believe me, not all of us were content with just sitting there and doing nothing. In fact, I was one of the people yelling and trying to rally back the rest of the bloc in the beginning when the pigs first started hitting some of the shield people in the front and when the firecracker was thrown which unnerved a lot of people and made the bloc temporarily break apart.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:20 pm

middle class white kids

Obviously most of the people in this bloc were kids considering the main organizations that formed the bloc were Students for a Democratic Society and the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade. I don't know how many of them were middle class because I was unable to tell but I can say with certainty that, while the majority was white, definitely not all of the people by any measure were white.
yeah. The problem isn't that middle class youth don't want to do shit.

The problem is that the march on the pentagon was overwhelmingly liberal, moderate, and reformist.

I was talking to one person in the bloc who didn't know what the red flags the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade brought and the black flags the black bloc had brought meant and another who said "Lincoln is what we stand for"


when it got to that point, why do you sit down?

don't know. That was proposed so that they couldn't grab us and drag us away easily.


Would they move on to the Pentagon? And then what? Occupy it? The Pentagon is a gigantic place. A couple hundred protesters ain't gonna do shit, particularly when the US Army deployes a few thousand troops with M-16's.

I think the point was more to defy the pigs and that basically just sending us into the fucking parking lot was embarrassing and would not be accepted.

[Fawkes]

I was talking to one person in the bloc who didn't know what the red flags the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade brought and the black flags the black bloc had brought meant and another who said "Lincoln is what we stand for"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was actually getting the sense that some of the more liberal people are becoming more radical because they figured out that the Democrats aren't doing shit about the war.

[Ander]

Originally posted by Revolutionary [email protected] 18, 2007 03:28 pm
honestly, after paying rent, car payements, insurance, food, gas, etc i have like 50-100 bucks extra a month, and my room mates and i voted on going and we decided instead to do other things with our extra money this month (aka have something to smoke on)
Wow, you are so fucking stupid. Stop talking shit, you're the idiot who decided to buy weed instead of support your comrades. You talk so much about how the protestors didn't do anything but you weren't even there! Maybe a situation would have started if you were there.

Idiot.

[bezdomni]

World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+March 18, 2007 06:24 pm--> (LeftyHenry @ March 18, 2007 06:24 pm)
[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit [/b]
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it.

[RedStaredRevolution]

Originally posted by Fawkes+March 18, 2007 11:26 pm--> (Fawkes @ March 18, 2007 11:26 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it. [/b]
I was one of the people with Red October that helped you carry the flag a little while before the skinhead bikers stole it from us. I just dont get a chance to post on here a lot so thats probably why you (and everyone else here) doesnt know me haha :P

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by RedStaredRevolution+March 18, 2007 06:43 pm--> (RedStaredRevolution @ March 18, 2007 06:43 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it.
I was one of the people with Red October that helped you carry the flag a little while before the skinhead bikers stole it from us. I just dont get a chance to post on here a lot so thats probably why you (and everyone else here) doesnt know me haha :P [/b]
Which person were you 'cause there was 5 in all if I remember correctly?

[Fawkes]

Here's a slide show of some pics from the protest (unfortunately, I'm not in any :( ):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/markstrandqui...ts/1296905/show (http://www.flickr.com/photos/markstrandquist/sets/1296905/show)

[RedStaredRevolution]

Originally posted by Fawkes+March 18, 2007 11:47 pm--> (Fawkes @ March 18, 2007 11:47 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:43 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it.
I was one of the people with Red October that helped you carry the flag a little while before the skinhead bikers stole it from us. I just dont get a chance to post on here a lot so thats probably why you (and everyone else here) doesnt know me haha :P
Which person were you 'cause there was 5 in all if I remember correctly? [/b]
I was the one in the gray hoodie, with the black bandana, holding the sign with che on it. when the skinheads stole our flag it was me, you, and Red October holding it (i was in front of Red October)

[Pawn Power]

Anymore links to pics?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Fawkes+March 18, 2007 11:26 pm--> (Fawkes @ March 18, 2007 11:26 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it. [/b]
wait shit who were you again? what were you wearing? For some reason I don't remember much. At first I confused you for RO

[Red October]

fawkes had a bandana that looked sort of mexican and a beanie.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by LeftyHenry+March 18, 2007 07:25 pm--> (LeftyHenry @ March 18, 2007 07:25 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it.
wait shit who were you again? what were you wearing? For some reason I don't remember much. At first I confused you for RO [/b]
I was wearing all black, had a red bandanna on my face at first and then I change it to a yellow one after I no longer needed the vinegar, and I had a green backpack. Also, when were marching across the bridge into DC, I was in the front and on the right side with a shield that said "Class War". If I remember correctly, you were over on the left along with some RCP flag carriers right?


Anymore links to pics?
Check out all the indymedia sites, particularly the Chicago one and the Washington, D.C. one.

Edit: Like RO said, my bandanna wasn't a sold color, it was black, red, and yellow.

[Aurora]

What are those shields made out of?They look fairly impressive :)

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 08:57 pm
What are those shields made out of?They look fairly impressive :)
some were made of plastic barrels and others were made of those big shiny orange traffic cylinders.

[Fawkes]

http://www.wctproducts.com/drum_front.jpg

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Fawkes+March 19, 2007 12:28 am--> (Fawkes @ March 19, 2007 12:28 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 07:25 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 11:26 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 06:24 pm

[email protected] 18, 2007 11:18 pm
World Can't Wait will probably subsidize whatever costs you will face financially going to the march. They did for me, but I was unable to go for other reasons...

I did, however, make it to a fairly large protest in Austin with some comrades.
yeah I was looking for you. I saw RH, but not you. I think he also was with the shield bloc for a bit
I wish I had seen more RevLefters :( . The only ones I actually met were LeftyHenry and Red October. I probably did actually talk with and meet other ones, I just didn't know it.
wait shit who were you again? what were you wearing? For some reason I don't remember much. At first I confused you for RO
I was wearing all black, had a red bandanna on my face at first and then I change it to a yellow one after I no longer needed the vinegar, and I had a green backpack. Also, when were marching across the bridge into DC, I was in the front and on the right side with a shield that said "Class War". If I remember correctly, you were over on the left along with some RCP flag carriers right?


Anymore links to pics?
Check out all the indymedia sites, particularly the Chicago one and the Washington, D.C. one.

Edit: Like RO said, my bandanna wasn't a sold color, it was black, red, and yellow. [/b]
oh I think I remember you. yeah I was carrying a red flag along with Red October and Manic Expression. The comrade who was carrying the RCP flag was one of the two who was arrested. I haven't seen him since, but my comrades tell me he was released.

Also,

does anyone else agree we should start some sort of resource for organizing more of these shield blocs at actions?

[RNK]

You should start organizing, period. From the sounds of it you guys suffered from heavy miscommunication and disorganization...

[Fawkes]

This is a good PDF file dealing with shield tactics and formations:

http://it.stlawu.edu/~quack/shieldbook.pdf

[OneBrickOneVoice]

thanks but what I meant is more like a wiki sort of site in which militant protestors post announcements of a shield contingent or black bloc or whatever.

[Pawn Power]

Here are the only two pics i took. sorry about the thumb.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3992/dsc00067xt0.th.jpg (http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00067xt0.jpg)

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3093/dsc00066od6.th.jpg (http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00066od6.jpg)