national bolshevism

[lenin]

what do you think of the ideology of national bolshevism? many of you will simply dismiss it as racist neo-nazism but it isn't. it mixes the best elements of leftism with the best elements of rightism. we are a go between between the hard left and the hard right. we believe in all enemies of the new world order uniting to overthrow capitalism. our main ideology comes from karl marx. we take his ideology but we aim to put in practice the goals of lenin and stalin. we are not necessarily nationalistic, but we believe in the stlniist principle of socialism in one country. and we believe that it is more important to establish socialism in your home country, than to strive for the prolateriat revolution which hasn't happened yet. we are not fascists though. we believe that the following ideologies must unite to destroy capitalism and the new world order:
socialism
the third way
national bolshevism
islam
islamic socialism
anarchism
the new left
stalinism

go to our site to find out more information

http://www.arctogaia.com/public/engl1.htm

[BOZG]

That is an extremely stupid theory. Stalinists and Anachists uniting. YEAH RIGHT.
It is extremely stupid to liberate some people just because they are within the boundries of the country. It is simple racist, nationalist shit.

[Anonymous]

how can you unite all these different ideas? It's ridiculous. And anything to with the right is fucked anyway in my opinion. I hate nationalism, its disgusting and racist.....

[Josip Broz Tito]

Lenin, did you ate something bad mate, you are acting very strange.

[lenin]

well weather you like it or not, national bolshevism is the ONLY way forward for the left.
guess what? news flash everyone! your stupid multi-culterul internationalist hippie jew loving ideas have failed! the world revolution marx predicted HAS NOT happened! stop living in the past! communism needs a new theory, a makeover for the 21st century.
how is patriotsism racist? do you ever wonder why anyone who thinks like you is never in power? you have to apeal to people some how to get into power. patriotism is something that apeals to everyone (exept you obviously).
the truth is, the 'communist' argument that most of you people put across is doomed to failure. because it is impossible. it is impossible for everyone to earn the same, it is impossible for all countries to unite, it is impossible for all different races to live side by side, it is impossible for there to be no government. communism needs a new face. one that will apeal to more people.
national bolshevism is a populist movement that apeals to a lot more people than internationalism. read my economic thoughts in the thread 'whats the difference between communism and socialism' in the GT forum. this is what we need, new ideas!
the fact is, i am proud to be a soviet, a russian! i am pround my country was the first to create a socialist state, i am proud of my countries revolutionary spirit. and if the time comes, i would fight for my country against invaders! you people can't take that away from me!

[Maaja]

I can never appreciate national bolchevik ideas. They aren't really racist for me, but already the word 'nationalist' symbolizes for the unjustified pride. I agree with patriotism only for occupied peoples. After regaining independence and securing it's self I can't agree with it anymore.

[Edelweiss]

:angry: Read it slowly: This is an Internationalist Forum for Che Admirers. FUCK RIGHT OFF! National bolshevism is fascism!

[Josip Broz Tito]

Lenin, you are shame for the name you took. Your ideas are pure fascist. And I am patriotic. I am patriotic for my left ideas and beleives.

[lenin]

malte, explain how national bolshevism is facsim? fascism is a reactionary movement against the working class taking power, national bolshevism is for the working class taking power. fascism is capitalism in decay, we are against capitalism! we just think securing the revoltion in your home country is more important than issues overseas.
i read in your profile you are german, did you not support the great west german football side of 70's and 80's? do you not want germany to win the world cup again? if you do want them to win, that is patriotism!

[Edelweiss]

Marx said the nation states are a tool of the capitalists to divide the working class. And he was damn right with this. Nationalism is a deeply reactionary ideology and the root of nearly all wars in the past 100 years. Nationalism=racism=fascism

NO BORDERS!
NO NATIONS!

[lenin]

i semi agree with marx's take on things but i don't agree with:
nationalism-racism-fascism

i am not necessarilly a 'nationlist' but more of a patriot. anyway, could you imagine if internationalis was forced upon the world? there would be a war to end all wars!
even if no borders is better its never going to happen.
you haven't answered my question about the german football team. do you want them to win the world cup? if you do, then you are recongnising you are a german and therefore are a patriot or 'nationalist' as you would say.

[Edelweiss]

you call yourself a national bolshevik but you are not a nationalist. right...
However, I hate Germany. And I wouldn't care much if they would be kicked out at the world cup by Cameroon, Ireland or Saudi-Arabia! :)

[Josip Broz Tito]

I wouldn't also agree with nationalist=racist=fascist. I would put it in this relation:

nationalist->racist->fascist

[Maaja]

Quote: from Josip Broz Tito on 8:14 pm on May 28, 2002
I wouldn't also agree with nationalist=racist=fascist. I would put it in this relation:

nationalist->racist->fascist



Yes, that's better. The previous was too generalized.

[Edelweiss]

You are right. When I'm angry I'm tending to simplify things, sorry...

[Nateddi]

To consider your country, your race, your ethnicity, your background, and various other uncontrollable traits to be superior to someone else's is dictionary racist.

You cannot be a communist and still possess those kinds of feelings. Communists don't see a master race or ethnicity or national origin, all they see is the proletariat and the bourgeois.

I am patroitic of proletarians of all the world, even the ones with a high standard of living on this board are all proletarians. I am patriotic of the proletariat, not of my race, nor my country, nor any other ethnic trait.

Communists are all internationalists, all are in favor of the working class over the owning class regardless of their backgrounds.

[lenin]

i don't think my own country or ethnic background is superior! thats stupid! i am just proud of my nations acheivements. i am all for the international prolateriat revolution but (for now at least) it is not going to happen. the only way socialism can be achieved is with the stalinist princliple of socilism in one country.
the only way i differ from internationalists really is, i don't beleive in a world super-state and i don't beleive in multi-culterulism or immigration. eg if an indian comes to russia, he is not coming to benefit the country or socialism, he is coming to better his own life and for personal/private gain. whats good about that? it is capitalist!
we are all born different and that is brilliant. multi-culteralism wants to take that away, it wants to take away our uniquness.national bolshevism wants to pursue communism but at the same time keep the unique virtues of all races.

[Kez]

Im with Lenin
Im not sayin Armenia is superior, but if Azerbaijan attacks Armenia id go with guns and fists to defend my motherland. I wouldnt say thats nationalist or fascist.

[Reuben]

Kamo, with respect, that is a completely strange attitude for a socialist to take.

AS socialists we attempt to assess every conflict , on moral and historical criteria. Furthermore we recognize that the most siginificant conflict is between the bourgoirsie and the proletariat, although I recognize their are other significant conflicts.

However, to talk about going to "Defend my motherland", withut reference to whatever moral situation may be thrown up in the conflict, is wrong.

If I simply took the attitude o alligning myself with the state that represents my ethnic group, I would be out there killing palestinians.

[The Ax]

Hey,
Stalinists have destroyed socialism once before and they'll do it again over my dead body you shitcake.

The Ax

[Kez]

If everyone was perfect and there was an invasion i suppose that could be a just war, but as you know the Azeris are part of the Turkish race, and there has always been a fear of them since they massacred 10,000 armenian in 1986.

Since then the Armenian nation has been at war, until 1994.

That is why i would defend the ideology and ethnic origin i belong to.

I would not want to see people i am related to to be killed and raped over AGAIN.

therefore i would go fist and gun to defend

Yours

[libereco]

Quote: from lenin on 8:33 pm on May 28, 2002
i don't think my own country or ethnic background is superior! thats stupid! i am just proud of my nations acheivements. [...] eg if an indian comes to russia, he is not coming to benefit the country or socialism, he is coming to better his own life and for personal/private gain. whats good about that? it is capitalist!
we are all born different and that is brilliant. multi-culteralism wants to take that away, it wants to take away our uniquness.national bolshevism wants to pursue communism but at the same time keep the unique virtues of all races.

Proud of your nations achievements?
What gives you the right to be proud of the achievments of others anyway? What have you done? Why can't I be proud of your nations achievements? Surely I've done just as much as you...nothing. Or do I have to be of the right ethnik origin to claim pride? Meaning that there is a difference between "races" and that one is superior to the other, because obviously some "nations" did achieve more than others.

Also that Indian can go to live where ever the fuck he wants to for all I care. You have to typical nationalistic fear of Immigrants (thats one sign for Fascism/Nazism my friend). "They don't try to be part of our cultur, they don't change to fit our needs" or "They take away our jobs" are the most claimed idiocies.

"we are all born different and that is brilliant. multi-culteralism wants to take that away, it wants to take away our uniquness"

You must have been on crack when you wrote that. Either we are all born "different" and are all unique, in wich case there would automatically be a multi-culturism. Or we are born as a typical "french man", "kroation" ect. in wich case we don't possess a uniqueness.

You think a culture is transmited by birth? Let me tell you something there is no unique virtue of a race.

Did you hear me?

It's not in the genes of a german to work hard.
French people don't speak french by birth.
Cubans aren't born communist.
British don't have a special urge for tea.

This is all adopted fucking behavior.

I simplified this greatly to get a point across that you can comprehend compadre.

btw. I am really trying to be offensive, so there is no need to tell me that I offended you, okay? (hint: your best bet is to start your argument claiming that i'm simply ignorant)


Kamo:

You would fight for supressed people in Armenia, but not for other supressed people? You don't see a double standart there?

"Yes those people were born close to where my parents were born, so I'm somehow really connected to them."
Is that statement true or false?

Either you go the whole nine yards and fight opression anywhere, or you try to atleast be objective about it.
The passport in your wallet, the piece of land on wich you were born. It's all fucking meaningless.

If I was offensive Kamo, I'm sorry...I'm still a bit enraged by Lenins Nazi propaganda.