Why so many young people here?

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Just browsing over the birthdays, and it amazed me how many really, really young people we have here! The oldest out of half a dozen birthdays I saw was 22!! What do you think this means and what could be the reasons for this? Is the next generation becoming more and more socialist and radical?? If so perhaps some good news for the future.

I wish there were a way to tell how many revleft members actually stay radical.

[Enragé]

younger people always bring with them the winds of change, they have done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future

the question is will it be transformed into an actual movement with staying power?

[colorlessman]

I bet, most will be come the conservatives, conformists and capitalists of tomorrow.

"The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head."

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” Winston Churchill

These quotes have some truth in them.

The young are free to think as they like, they have no responsibilities or duties like the old. The older they get the less they stop questioning and start justifying and accepting.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 05:13 pm
I bet, most will be come the conservatives, conformists and capitalists of tomorrow.

"The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head."

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” Winston Churchill

These quotes have some truth in them.

The young are free to think as they like, they have no responsibilities or duties like the old. The older they get the less they stop questioning and start justifying and accepting.
:( That's not a very optimistic point of view. ...do you think you will become a conservative or capitalist in the future???

[Enragé]

just because most of our parents and their parents before them have sold out doesnt mean we will.

[Publius]

I hang out here because I heard this is where all the hot chicks are.

I wasn't misinformed, was I? The hot chicks here dig literati such as myself, right?

Right?

[colonelguppy]

people are more idealistic and radical when they're young. time makes people bitter, and almost everyone starts drifting toward the political center. i'm not even old and i already have.

[R_P_A_S]

i admire that. im 25.. and i started to get into this only last year. I hope the younger guys.. the 14 to 18 year olds.. are not just going through a phase. I hope they stay on this and learn more and more everyday

[Fawkes]

The ages of people on RevLeft does not necessarily reflect the ages of leftists worldwide. The fact that most people on RevLeft are young is most likely do to the fact that the internet is a relatively recent phenomenon that most older people do not use as regularly as young people.

[OkaCrisis]

A friend of mine and I were just talking about this. The fact is (in our opinion) that the youth today realize that this world has very little to offer them. We can see bleak futures for ourselves and humanity. We are overeducated, overworked, underpaid. We see that our parents and grandparents have GOTTEN NOWHERE despite decades of hard labour and miserly saving. Our grandparents grapple with pensions that are meaningless and insecure. Our own parents probably WON'T retire at age 65, but will keep on working to make ends meet and be able to one day retire.

We (the youth) have nothing left to look forward to in the world as it functions today. We can see the negative effects that capitalism and neoliberal globalisation have had on social relations in our own communities and around the world.

Anyway, I agree with NKOS. We 20somethings are young, and we want to change the world... Not eventually retire in it.

[Demogorgon]

Well it strikes me that the members of OI here are also fairly young, so it may just be an internet thing.

I'm fairly young myself, just about to turn twenty one, so am I likely to change my views? Well yeah, because they have changed before, but that has mostly been changes as to how to do things rather than general principles. Also as I have been growing up I have gotten more and more left wing. The same thing happened to my mother apparently. Must just be an odd thing that runs in our family.

[RebelDog]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 04:20 pm
Just browsing over the birthdays, and it amazed me how many really, really young people we have here! The oldest out of half a dozen birthdays I saw was 22!! What do you think this means and what could be the reasons for this? Is the next generation becoming more and more socialist and radical?? If so perhaps some good news for the future.

I wish there were a way to tell how many revleft members actually stay radical.
I am quite old but I'm not as old as you Noam.

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 12:51 pm
i admire that. im 25.. and i started to get into this only last year. I hope the younger guys.. the 14 to 18 year olds.. are not just going through a phase. I hope they stay on this and learn more and more everyday
I'm 17, 18 in April :D I just started into this last year also, so I learn a lot from this site as well. But this isn't a phase for me I believe. I personally started by talking to a friend who was into this by his brother, a political science major. My friend moved away on the other side of the city, but I would hit him up over the phone. It was weird because we would talk about meaningless shit and then some how he just started talking about politics to me. At first I was pretty skeptical and then I was bored the first time he discussed Communism to me. But then, I started to listen to him and I just got more and more interested. Its all really a blur now, but I just remember talkin to the phone with my homie for hours discussing politics. I think thats the first time I really got into it.

But yea, I really believe any person who can just be informed of how fucked up America, Capitalism, or Imperialistic countries are, they will become interested in politics. Hopefully more people, especially the younger generation, start to empathize with other leftists.

[Guerrilla22]

There are plent of people here 25 and older. That said, I see it as nothing but a positive thing that there are numerous young members on this board.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm glad that so many of us here are under 25 - it shows that whilst there is growing apathy towards the capitalist system (how many people bother to vote nowadays?), there is a sizeable amount of young people who are interested in politics. It is up to forums such as RevLeft to ensure that these young people can learn more about the many idealogies on the revolutionary left.

[Cyanide Suicide]

I think it's combination of both the internet being primarily used by younger people (especially when it comes to forums) and the fact that younger people tend to be more radical.

As for why people often drift more to the center as they age, I believe that it has a lot to do with people coming to the (in their minds) realization that they can't really change things on a large scale.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Funny thing is, I've become more radical as I've gotten older. :lol:

[Chicano Shamrock]

I was wondering the same thing. I am 19 and I started looking into communism and anarchism about 2 years ago or so. It is good to see people here that are around 14 reading this kind of stuff. When I was 14 I didn't have the sense to look into political ideologies but I was always into history. More importantly I was always into learning the truth about history. Not the stuff that tells me that Christopher Columbus was a great man and that Abraham Lincoln loved the slaves.

Even when I was young I didn't feel right saluting the flag. In my early schooling I would question why I have to pledge allegiance. When I was younger I wondered why communism was bad and why the US went to war on Vietnam. My dad was drafted into Vietnam and at 10 I asked him why communism was bad. He couldn't tell me why. I realized then the power of propaganda.

Hopefully us young people here won't give up like the the liberal hippies did. Soon I am getting the red flag and black flag tattooed onto my arm. So there is no going back.

[Rage Against Right]

I started here sometime last year and though not a really active member i read alot and gain alot of useful info that i need before i start voicing informed opinions. I got onto revleft because i needed to know more, i am really lucky because im from a family who has lived by their ethics and has remained, tho old, radical in their own sense and i guess its just rubbed off because i feel the same way about society as they do

The sad thing is, where im from in Australia, their are three high skools in the town and i havnt met a leftist comrade yet, most are apethetic and couldnt give a rats wat politics are.

good to see young people here!

[CNT-FAI]

Anyone else find that posting replies is very slow?

I'm 56 & still humpin' it down the line.:) I was radicalized in 1965 while a cadet member of the Civil Air Patrol (civilian auxiliary of the Air Force) at age 15. Ironically our cadet commander, about our age, was a Communist & educated me about the Vietnam War. He was jailed in the South as a Freedom Rider & wound up as a professor at Hamilton College.

I tried on various political tendencies, things were chaotic in thse days. Contact with the Progressive Labor Party & knowledge of Communist (that is, Stalinist) excesses in other countries turned me off to what was called Communism.

I finally became an Anarcho-Syndicalist. Obviously a very small tendency in the US but it's my platform from which to help stimulate dialog about our mistakes (& our successes, looking at other countries as well) so that we can correct them & build a working class movement.

For the latter i favor the kind of direct involvement with the working class community that the CPUSA practiced prior to the "Cold" War. It was quite successful to a point but was overtaken by other events such as the "Cold" War & postwar general prosperity (based on the war). I think we can study it & find ways to reconstitute it, helping people with their everyday needs & getting political dialog going.

IMO we need to address the very serious disunity that exists on the Left, finding if possible some basic points of agreement so that we can move ahead & shed our status as marginal elements more or less unknown to the general public.

"Join or Die" , with the depiction of a snake in pieces, each piece representing a colony, was the slogan on a political cartoon by Ben Franklin.; this imperative applies to us also. Do we insist on being dogmatically "correct" but isolated & ineffectual, or can we learn to come into cooperation with others for the sake of real change?

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg

BTW, i'd like to suggest that the hammer & sickles could be removed from the board headers, since this is not an exclusively Communist forum & they may deter some people from joining. Some other graphic could be substituted, such as a fire, etc. My 2 cents.

http://www.redasociativa.org/elinsurgente/...z%20militar.jpg (http://www.redasociativa.org/elinsurgente/ficheros/Nico.%20Hugo%20Chavez%20militar.jpg)

http://david.opishposh.com/images/anarchosyndicalistflag.png

[Wozza]

im 16, only having noticed the politcal faults of our world recently. I hope i never fall into the capitalist void.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 10:46 pm
Funny thing is, I've become more radical as I've gotten older. :lol:
[off-topic] Nox, are you back for good? :) [/off-topic]


only having noticed the politcal faults of our world recently

Define "faults". Are you talking "ethical 'faults'" or simply instabilities?

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 03:46 am
Funny thing is, I've become more radical as I've gotten older. :lol:
Same here :D

[Boriznov]

I hope i will not leave socialist thoughs how older i get. I just wish there was some more hope for us, things still don't seem very good. Common People still think communism is like how it is in China, North-Korea and how it was in the former USSR. If only we could educate on a greater scale there would be more hope.

[CNT-FAI]

Unfortunately the term Communism is a major stumbling block due to the track record of the ideology associated with that name...(excuse my mixed metaphors):) Do we want to cling to a name, or do we want to develop that which is effective under current conditions?

Starting with educating ourselves. I think one of the worst obstacles is the belief that we radicals have the job of organising & teaching working people. This is true to some extent, but if we can't learn from working people then we've already sown the seeds of tyranny. The true revolutionary needs, IMO, an attitude of humility & not the outlook of imposing the "truth" on those who lack it.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by CNT-[email protected] 26, 2007 02:24 pm
Unfortunately the term Communism is a major stumbling block due to the track record of the ideology associated with that name...(excuse my mixed metaphors):) Do we want to cling to a name, or do we want to develop that which is effective under current conditions?

Starting with educating ourselves. I think one of the worst obstacles is the belief that we radicals have the job of organising & teaching working people. This is true to some extent, but if we can't learn from working people then we've already sown the seeds of tyranny. The true revolutionary needs, IMO, an attitude of humility & not the outlook of imposing the "truth" on those who lack it.
I agree. I don't use the word Communist myself because of the ill connotations attached to it. Fortunately I live in a poart of the world where Socialist has no such connotations, so I use that freely. For Americans though, for whom both words can mean difficultirs, it would be best to focus on the message and not use any words that might turn people off. Our ideas are what xcount, no matter what we call thema fter all.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by patton+February 26, 2007 10:35 am--> (patton @ February 26, 2007 10:35 am)
[email protected] 24, 2007 04:20 pm
Just browsing over the birthdays, and it amazed me how many really, really young people we have here! The oldest out of half a dozen birthdays I saw was 22!! What do you think this means and what could be the reasons for this? Is the next generation becoming more and more socialist and radical?? If so perhaps some good news for the future.

I wish there were a way to tell how many revleft members actually stay radical.
Cuz you young guys think you can change the world. [/b]
Your point....

[Fawkes]

Plenty of individuals have changed the world, imagine what could be done by an enormous mass of individuals.

[KC]

When i was young i thought i could change the world to, but now that i am 37 i have realized you can't change shit.

My bet is that you just realized how much work it is to change the world and got lazy.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by patton+February 26, 2007 12:26 pm--> (patton @ February 26, 2007 12:26 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 05:14 pm
Plenty of individuals have changed the world, imagine what could be done by an enormous mass of individuals.
Thats the problem where are going to get the mass number of people most peoeple dont care. [/b]
When they realize how much capitalism fucks them over, I think they'll care.

[bezdomni]

I know plenty of old communists. They are usually busy with organizing all of the time, as they usually have leadership positions in organizations, which is why they don't post on a message board. :P

[Fawkes]

It has happened, workers have revolted against capitalism, know your history.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by patton+February 26, 2007 02:21 pm--> (patton @ February 26, 2007 02:21 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 06:38 pm
It has happened, workers have revolted against capitalism, know your history.
Yes but how long ago did it happen. [/b]
Depends on which example you use but that is beside the point, how long ago it was is irrelevant.

[Boriznov]

I agree with some points like communist is a block in most cases. That is indeed true, sadly enough. What annoys me tho with the youth these days, are the fakers. The kind that wears a Che shirt, a anarchy symbol on there bags or shirts but don't know anything about true anarchy, che or socialism. They wear it because it's cool and it provokes.

[Fawkes]

That's not what we are debating, we are debating whether the working class has the ability as a whole to revolt against the current system, which history has proven to us they can.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by patton+February 26, 2007 03:10 pm--> (patton @ February 26, 2007 03:10 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 07:59 pm
That's not what we are debating, we are debating whether the working class has the ability as a whole to revolt against the current system, which history has proven to us they can.
Just because something happened a long time ago doesn't mean it will happen again. [/b]
Yes, but it can happen again.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by CNT-[email protected] 26, 2007 10:52 am
BTW, i'd like to suggest that the hammer & sickles could be removed from the board headers, since this is not an exclusively Communist forum & they may deter some people from joining. Some other graphic could be substituted, such as a fire, etc. My 2 cents.

But also the hammer and sickle are not exclusively communist symbols. They represent the workers. Like the red flag doesn't always mean you are a communist but that you fly it for the blood of the workers who have died.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by patton+February 26, 2007 03:42 pm--> (patton @ February 26, 2007 03:42 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 08:13 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 03:10 pm

[email protected] 26, 2007 07:59 pm
That's not what we are debating, we are debating whether the working class has the ability as a whole to revolt against the current system, which history has proven to us they can.
Just because something happened a long time ago doesn't mean it will happen again.
Yes, but it can happen again.
I agree with you. [/b]
Than why were we debating all along?

[RNK]

There are several revolutions happening in the world today, and literally hundreds of isolated conflicts involving an oppressed people revolting against their oppressors; be it a local conflict of the poor fighting a multinational, or a national campaign such as in Nepal.

It isn't a matter of it possibly happening. it will happen. History is and forever will be on our side. It is only a matter of time; when it will happen is more important than if, or even how.

[Question everything]

I;m 14, I've been sliping further and further left since I can remember, Ironically I think religion class got me here...

[redcannon]

the only reason why a revolution hasn't happened in a while is because the world is full of lazy motherfuckers like patton.

show some spirit! times are tough now, but feel rest assured. almost every established philosopher (at least the leftist ones) know that capitalism is not a fully perpetuating force. it will come to an end, though we don't know when.

adopting a belief like yours will only further the spirit of capitalism, and that very much defeats the point.

somethings to hard, we should just give up? right? wrong. somethings to hard, we need to work hard to get through it.

thank god there are so many young people on this forum, if we left it to you older folks nothing would get done. (although i do recognize many of you older folks do not fall into the catagory of apathetic capitalists in denial)

[wtfm8lol]

My guess is that most of the young ones here are either rebelling against society or truly disgusted by capitalism but ignorant of the way economies really work. Both of these things go away with age for most people, thankfully.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 03:06 pm
My guess is that most of the young ones here are either rebelling against society or truly disgusted by capitalism but ignorant of the way economies really work. Both of these things go away with age for most people, thankfully.
i'm so fucking tired of people associating age with intelligence. why is it so hard to believe that there are educated teenagers out there? or are you more concerened that they might just know more than you?

[wtfm8lol]

I'm not associating age with intelligence. I'm associating age with acquired knowledge.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 06:06 pm
My guess is that most of the young ones here are either rebelling against society or truly disgusted by capitalism but ignorant of the way economies really work. Both of these things go away with age for most people, thankfully.
How would that explain why there are so many leftists in the world than are not teenagers? Also, before you go relating knowledge with age, how old are you?

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by Fawkes+February 26, 2007 06:24 pm--> (Fawkes @ February 26, 2007 06:24 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 06:06 pm
My guess is that most of the young ones here are either rebelling against society or truly disgusted by capitalism but ignorant of the way economies really work. Both of these things go away with age for most people, thankfully.
How would that explain why there are so many leftists in the world than are not teenagers? Also, before you go relating knowledge with age, how old are you? [/b]
While I don't have any statistics to base this on, I would guess that the percentage of teenagers who are leftists is higher than the percentage of adults who are leftists. Keep in mind, this is only my guess. If you happen to provide statistics to shatter this guess, so be it.

Also, I'm 108 years old.

[Fawkes]

I have no statistics to provide because there would never be a survey about such a subject. Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing) when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

[wtfm8lol]

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.

[redcannon]

are you seriously suggesting that "aquired knowledge" beats factual knowledge? so long as you "aquire knowledge" from a capitalist state, i don't think its worth a damn. :angry:

maybe the worlds so fucked up right now because people like you won't listen to people like us. we have mouths and you have ears, yet for some reason the connection is never made.

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 06:42 pm
are you seriously suggesting that "aquired knowledge" beats factual knowledge? so long as you "aquire knowledge" from a capitalist state, i don't think its worth a damn. :angry:

maybe the worlds so fucked up right now because people like you won't listen to people like us. we have mouths and you have ears, yet for some reason the connection is never made.
I'm suggesting that more acquired knowledge beats less acquired knowledge. Obviously there is the matter of quality of knowledge which I will admit may be a strong factor for less intelligent people who don't question everything they're told, but I spoke nothing of that before.

Also, I'm listening to you right now, bud.

[redcannon]

i decree that if ever teenagers around the world revolutionize, old fat cappies should be first to the wall.

[wtfm8lol]

That just leaves the problem of getting the old fat cappies to give you their weapons in the first place.

[redcannon]

who needs to hide behind a weapon? i'm perfectly fine with taking down the system with my bare hands.

[wtfm8lol]

Now that's just silly.

[redcannon]

no, whats silly is some crazy cappie spending all of his time on a commie forum when he should be being exploited by the capitalist system like he wants to.

[manic expression]

There have been many valid reasons given to explain this. The fact that posters in OI are roughly of the same age group as the rest of revleft (as others have pointed out) speaks volumes.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

who needs to hide behind a weapon? i'm perfectly fine with taking down the system with my bare hands.
I am not affiliated with this person.

Anyway as regards the question at hand, I think some other guy provided the correct answer earlier; there are plenty of older socialists, but most of them have full-time jobs to work and families to support, not to mention parties and organizations to run if they're more committed. So many of them just wouldn't have time to be posting on some practically unknown message board, it's not going to put food on the plate and, in their minds, it's not going to aid the plight of the working class.

In fact, I think the question of why it only seems to be younger people sitting on teh internets posting on forums all day is pretty fucking moronic. But that's just my opinion.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 06:39 pm

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.
By bad I mean bad, what did you think I meant?

Didn't you just prove yourself wrong about how more leftists are teenagers than adults?

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by Fawkes+February 26, 2007 07:48 pm--> (Fawkes @ February 26, 2007 07:48 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 06:39 pm

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.
By bad I mean bad, what did you think I meant?

Didn't you just prove yourself wrong about how more leftists are teenagers than adults? [/b]
Well what I mean is that having mostly young members discredits any anti-status quo organization in the eyes of older people, and in that respect it is bad.

Anyway, I never really said there are more leftists teenagers than adults. I just took a stab at the teenagers.

[Question everything]

I'm not associating age with intelligence. I'm associating age with acquired knowledge.

if that is true then in your books aquired intellegence must mean...

acquired intellegence- I can't beat the system so I'll just bend over and get... (you get the Idea)


In fact, I think the question of why it only seems to be younger people sitting on teh internets posting on forums all day is pretty fucking moronic. But that's just my opinion.

I'm on here about 2 hours a day, and that is ussually while doing homework, or studying... so :P

[manic expression]

Originally posted by wtfm8lol+February 27, 2007 12:58 am--> (wtfm8lol @ February 27, 2007 12:58 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:48 pm

[email protected] 26, 2007 06:39 pm

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.
By bad I mean bad, what did you think I meant?

Didn't you just prove yourself wrong about how more leftists are teenagers than adults?
Well what I mean is that having mostly young members discredits any anti-status quo organization in the eyes of older people, and in that respect it is bad.

Anyway, I never really said there are more leftists teenagers than adults. I just took a stab at the teenagers. [/b]
I can tell you that from what I can tell, there are leftists from virtually every age group. In fact, one of the groups I worked with is known for being more youth-oriented than most of the other organizations in the area.

And plus, having more youth activity is far from a bad thing.

[cenv]

It's probably true that the percentage of young people who are leftists is higher than the percentage of adults who are leftists. That seems logical to me. Students are facing the prospect of living the rest of the rest of their lives under capitalism. It's hard to accept the exploitation and alienation of capitalist society when you have your entire life in front of you. For this reason, students are more dedicated towards revolution and interested in changing things than adults.

[Left Of Center-Right]

Being older than 30 myself, and having at one time been active in debate regarding the merits of socialism/communism at a very personal level, I can say that from my experience anyway, at some point in time, people have to make a choice of either blaming others for the world's ills or directing their energies to puting food on their plates no matter what political system is in place. Also, having been around awhile, I have seen no shortage of people who refuse to carry their own weight and that fact having nothing to do with ol' cappie or his system holding them down. I find this behavior offensive on a non-political level. When I was younger, I didn't have to deal with the "do or die" reality of self-support and didn't mind "helping" my slacker pals, which many of them were.

I would imagine that this in probably normal and has more to do with why there aren't as many older posters. Many people just get past it all. Either way, humoring the thought that usenets are somehow a predominately youthful tool would be a step in the wrong direction.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Left Of Center-[email protected] 27, 2007 04:04 am
I have seen no shortage of people who refuse to carry their own weight and that fact having nothing to do with ol' cappie or his system holding them down.
If that was done in a capitalist society than yes it has something to do with ol' cappie. How can it not? People are a product of their environment and how they were raised.

[dogwoodlover]

I've always been very opinionated in regards to politics.

Even when I used to just quote verbatim the things my parents would tell me, I would go at it with kids in my class.

At around 14 I started to deviate from my parents' politics, and considered myself a "Libertarian" (as in the American party).

Somewhere between 15 and 16 I started calling myself an anarchist.

I'm 17 and almost 18 now, and I consider myself a Marxist.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 07:20 am
Somewhere between 15 and 16 I started calling myself an anarchist.

I'm 17 and almost 18 now, and I consider myself a Marxist.
So do you consider yourself a state communist or an anarcho-communist now?

[Vladislav]

I came here because my favourite band is Ratm and they're communists so I want to e communissts like them so I can be cool lawl lawl.

[Rollo]

I was anything but left for a long time.

Head polluted by movies like romper stomper and being 'cool' I was racist and ignorant up until I hit 13. I won't say why exactly but I suddenly had a lot of thinking time.

I started picking up political books, mainly the big ones like Mein Kampf, Das Kapital and eventually the communist manifesto. I started reading biographies of Marxists, namely Ernesto 'Che' Guevara. I re-read a couple of the books later and grew a stronger understanding of them. A year and a bit later I stumbled upon this forum and got accused of being a spambot.
I indirectly met a few people via internet chat messengers and the like and managed with help to find marxists.org and went on to read three components of Marxism and later wage, labor, capital.

Now my list of read books contains most of Marx and Lenin's works and even some Stalin and Trotsky. In just those 3 or so years of reading and study I feel I learned more than I could with 10 years of 'life experience'.

Saying all 1~ year olds are stupid is like saying everybody older than twenty is really smart. It just isn't true. You can go through your entire life and still be stupid, as you can also be young and educated.

I guess what I'm trying to say here wtfm8lol is, you're an asshole.

[Left Of Center-Right]

If that was done in a capitalist society than yes it has something to do with ol' cappie. How can it not? People are a product of their environment and how they were raised.
My viewpoint is that laziness is a human issue and not a political one, unless of course the political regime is based on crushing the human spirit and criminalizing of individuality. I don't think that there is any political system that cannot fall victim to greed INCLUDING communism/socialism. History shows this to be true. The ideal is never achieved due to corruption. And I don't want to work twice as hard to carry my brother's burdens no matter how much I love him. This is the essence of personal responsibility- like in the parable of the ant and the grasshopper. Also, under communism, what happens to the lazy? How are they addressed?

For fear of sounding like just another preaching 30 something, I will pass on the "you learn this with age" tagline even though it would bring my post back into relevence with that of the OP.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by Left Of Center-[email protected] 27, 2007 04:04 am
Being older than 30 myself, and having at one time been active in debate regarding the merits of socialism/communism at a very personal level, I can say that from my experience anyway, at some point in time, people have to make a choice of either blaming others for the world's ills or directing their energies to puting food on their plates no matter what political system is in place. Also, having been around awhile, I have seen no shortage of people who refuse to carry their own weight and that fact having nothing to do with ol' cappie or his system holding them down. I find this behavior offensive on a non-political level. When I was younger, I didn't have to deal with the "do or die" reality of self-support and didn't mind "helping" my slacker pals, which many of them were.

I would imagine that this in probably normal and has more to do with why there aren't as many older posters. Many people just get past it all. Either way, humoring the thought that usenets are somehow a predominately youthful tool would be a step in the wrong direction.
People should blame things that deserve to be blamed. It's about changing the world, not merely trying to cope with it.

And no, we don't give a sh*t about being "held down", you can drop that delusional crap right now. Many of us could go on to lucrative careers. The thing is we don't WANT to "go up" in capitalism because of what that entails. We know the nature of the system, so why would we want to utilize it when we are trying to destroy it?

Both sides of the issue here are relatively young. Please address that.

[citizen_snips]

Many older people either go off taking an interest in politics because they haven't been able to achieve what they were trying for, having your efforts amount to what seems like nothing can make you bitter and really reluctant to keep trying.

Others who have maybe done well for themselves, maybe they now have a decent income, own a house and 2 cars, might start thinking that this is normal for the majority of people, and anyone who doesn't manage it doesn't deserve it (due to laziness or stupidity). Owning a house makes you happy to see house prices rise even at a time when they're already well out of reach of most first time buyers, owning a car means you probably don't know or care how bad public transport is, etc.

Both these situations don't apply to young people for the most part.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by wtfm8lol+February 26, 2007 04:58 pm--> (wtfm8lol @ February 26, 2007 04:58 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:48 pm

[email protected] 26, 2007 06:39 pm

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.
By bad I mean bad, what did you think I meant?

Didn't you just prove yourself wrong about how more leftists are teenagers than adults?
Well what I mean is that having mostly young members discredits any anti-status quo organization in the eyes of older people, and in that respect it is bad.

Anyway, I never really said there are more leftists teenagers than adults. I just took a stab at the teenagers. [/b]
y ya gotta be like that? :(

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by redcannon+February 27, 2007 09:29 pm--> (redcannon @ February 27, 2007 09:29 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 04:58 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 07:48 pm

[email protected] 26, 2007 06:39 pm

Still, explain to me how the left is made up mostly of the youth (which isn't even a bad thing)

What specifically do you mean by bad?


when all the leftist revolutions currently and historically are fought mainly by people who are not teenagers.

Clearly, this is because there aren't enough teenagers to fight a revolution, they generally don't have the resources and capability to organize like adults do, and they don't have the material resources to start a revolution.
By bad I mean bad, what did you think I meant?

Didn't you just prove yourself wrong about how more leftists are teenagers than adults?
Well what I mean is that having mostly young members discredits any anti-status quo organization in the eyes of older people, and in that respect it is bad.

Anyway, I never really said there are more leftists teenagers than adults. I just took a stab at the teenagers.
y ya gotta be like that? :( [/b]
makes me feel better about myself

[Saorsa no bas]

The question of youth and revolutionary politics and their higher levels of activity and interest is due primarily to youthful rebellion against the status quo and injustice- real and perceived.

I ve been a socialist since i was sixteen and im now 38. There are some very big determinants around the issue of youth remaining left and radical as they develop.
The biggest one is class, working class youth who socially remain working class are much more likely to still burn with class consciousness throughout their lives, whilst middle class youth have often sowen their wild political oats and then deradicalise as careers and material wealth leads to conservatism.

Another important set of factors are the objective conditions and the level of class struggle both during youths radicalisation and indeed subsequently as they grow older.

Subjectively it is vital that any organisation that youth join or follow has a very patient and relevant educational programme which promotes independent critically minded marxism and develops working class youth in particular. Thus training an effective cadre and sharpening the organisations role and roots within the working class.Incidentally developing organic intellectuals of the working class. That should lead to a stronger consolidation of members and the creation of a more virtuous cycle within the organsation.

Just a few thoughts comrades.

[RASHskins]

I learned on my own the truth about our planet and about certain ideologies and i never wanna go back to being blissfully ignorant i don't ever see myself going back i would rather commit suicide.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by Left Of Center-[email protected] 27, 2007 07:07 am

If that was done in a capitalist society than yes it has something to do with ol' cappie. How can it not? People are a product of their environment and how they were raised.
My viewpoint is that laziness is a human issue and not a political one, unless of course the political regime is based on crushing the human spirit and criminalizing of individuality. I don't think that there is any political system that cannot fall victim to greed INCLUDING communism/socialism. History shows this to be true. The ideal is never achieved due to corruption. And I don't want to work twice as hard to carry my brother's burdens no matter how much I love him. This is the essence of personal responsibility- like in the parable of the ant and the grasshopper. Also, under communism, what happens to the lazy? How are they addressed?

For fear of sounding like just another preaching 30 something, I will pass on the "you learn this with age" tagline even though it would bring my post back into relevence with that of the OP.
It has nothing to do with politics. You can be apathetic to politics but when you grow up in a certain environment you will act a certain way. When you grow up in capitalism you are taught to fight your comrades tooth and nail for the wage and the job. That is a product of the environment you live in. If you grew up in Nazi Germany you would probably hate Jews and Communists. It would have nothing to do with your politics personally but with the way you were brought up.

You say "unless the political regime is based on crushing the human spirit". You just defined capitalism. It crushes my spirit when I have to know that when one person climbs that financial ladder, nine others fall of and hit the ground.

[dogwoodlover]

[OFF TOPIC]


Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+February 27, 2007 08:06 am--> (Chicano Shamrock @ February 27, 2007 08:06 am)
[email protected] 27, 2007 07:20 am
Somewhere between 15 and 16 I started calling myself an anarchist.

I'm 17 and almost 18 now, and I consider myself a Marxist.
So do you consider yourself a state communist or an anarcho-communist now?[/b]

I mostly associate with Council Communist ideas.

I think Marx's 'dictatorship of the proletariat' would be best realized through the concentration of political power in direct-democratic workers' councils.

[/OFF TOPIC]

[Sir_No_Sir]

Funny,I was thinking about this recently. As I'm sure some of you know,I'm quite the proponent of the youth.

Anyways,my brother(in the army right now) always used to watch CNN and right after school, we would ALWAYS talk about it. He went from being a rightist supporter of the Iraq war to being a bleeding heart basically, and I followed. Whenever I hear of something, I always look at it further. This happened with anarchism and socialism, and now I'm a socialist.(like right around 13/14 i turned socialist, im 14 now)

I do think that with every generation, liberal and socialist movements tend to strengthen, and with every generation, the youth naturally get smarter, and alot of people if woken up, could be "converted" to socialism.

[SittingBull47]

I'm going to go with ignorance. Che = cool for young kids, so it's a fad being a radical. However, there are some with genuine interest so it's not so bad.

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 04:24 am
I'm going to go with ignorance. Che = cool for young kids, so it's a fad being a radical. However, there are some with genuine interest so it's not so bad.
I know, I hate the "mtv anarchists"

[Question everything]

I think the reason most leftists are so young is because they invented suicide bombings :lol:

[RASHskins]

Question Everything :lol:

That was a good one!

[inquisitive_socialist]

whats wrong with question everything? its been my motto throughout my entire life. its saved me from sketchy people, stupid authorities, and bullshit rules in life. if you question everything, you arent saying nothing is to be trusted, or that others can't even question you, or that others can state true things, but until you experience something for yourself or its proven true by people your willing to trust as correct, you have to question everything.

[ZX3]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 07:25 pm
whats wrong with question everything? its been my motto throughout my entire life. its saved me from sketchy people, stupid authorities, and bullshit rules in life. if you question everything, you arent saying nothing is to be trusted, or that others can't even question you, or that others can state true things, but until you experience something for yourself or its proven true by people your willing to trust as correct, you have to question everything.
So what have you questioned regarding the viability, logic, possibility, of socialism?

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by ZX3+March 06, 2007 07:30 pm--> (ZX3 @ March 06, 2007 07:30 pm)
[email protected] 06, 2007 07:25 pm
whats wrong with question everything? its been my motto throughout my entire life. its saved me from sketchy people, stupid authorities, and bullshit rules in life. if you question everything, you arent saying nothing is to be trusted, or that others can't even question you, or that others can state true things, but until you experience something for yourself or its proven true by people your willing to trust as correct, you have to question everything.
So what have you questioned regarding the viability, logic, possibility, of socialism? [/b]
I would assume/hope a lot. What have you questioned about capitalism?

[inquisitive_socialist]

with socialism i questino the ability of the people to function together in a manner that does not benefit one more than all. i question the ability of the people to be willing to do the work required to run a governmentless society. capitalism makes me question what people truly value, why the poor must suffer for the rich, why the country is called a democracy when its little more than a republic. i question your ability to come to any more definite conclusion than i. im not saying im right, or that your wrong, but if you or i can't see the possibility of either of us being wrong, then we will continue to question each others beliefs. this questioning may strengthen your beliefs or weaken them, or introduce entirely new ones. but your still going to question them i hope.

[Pilar]

Old Political Joke in America:

In your teens you read The Daily Reader/San Diego Weekly

In your 20's you real the Nation and Newsweek

In your 30's you read TIME

In your 40's you read The Wall Street Journal

In your 50's you read U.S. News and World Report

In your 60's you read the National Review


ALL of us, including we Commies, will become more conservative as we grow older. Simlpy, we'll desire the world we once knew, and it will be gone.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I used to be conservative, hardliner patriot, nationalism, globalization, believed in free trade or production until I was around 13 years old. There I failed my school, the cRappies had failed me. I went to study history (I was dumb back then) and I found out a lot about class struggling, war between states,which leads me to understand the greed was the main force & CNN apparently lead me to research farther and I always demand the criticizing of the CNN or other news, I just learn the truth about commies 4 months ago(When I want to know who was Ernesto Che Guevara) when I was impressed with socialism definition when I was 15. Now Im only 17 and I still have to learn about communist so I can satisfy myself and it did satisfy me that eventually I am a Marxism now, we must criticize ourself to be stronger and learn a lot to be smarter. We cannot blindly just use Marx's word. We must research and learn a lot. I believe communism/ anarchism is the only way to free people from authority and capitalist's police, or oppressed-form. So yes, we must change ourselves and we must do it so our kid can live and be smarter and greater than us. I would appreciate if anyone draft this since I suck at writing.