Does God exist??

[liberation]

Does God exist? What do you think?

[DORRI]

I think there must be someone who has created you & me , everything in the world. can you believe that creation has happened suddenly?!

[BOZG]

I don't think there is a god and until someone can prove it then I won't. And even if someone does prove there is a god, it would no longer be a god but an idol.

[Lardlad95]

God is something you must search deep within yourself and see if you personally believe. Fuck what everyone else thinks. Believe what you believe. To many people on this site want to steal people's beliefs from them

[angry]

I belive in god, it is my own faith, my own image that I see of it, I don´t go that much to church (maybe one or two times a year) but I consider myself a very religious person...I have read Marx ideals about god I understand them but I don´t agree with them in all ways..it maybe true that god is the opium of the soul,
but even if it is, I don´t see a problem with that, if it helps you then I think it is great to belive in God.

[ZaPaTiStA SoCiAlIsTa]

I don’t believe in god, it is a notion invented by man. We created god in our own image, not the other way around. How can people blindly follow something which there is no proof of??? The notion that there has to be a reward for our suffering on earth is just a conditioned mentality to keep them in line, to keep them working until they are "rewarded" in death, a hope given to them for their labor on earth. There is no better excuse for a boss on earth than a boss in heaven.

[ZaPaTiStA SoCiAlIsTa]

Why MUST there be an answer? Why MUST there be "something more in life"? If you ask me, the energy devoted to worship (a.k.a idolatry) would be appreciated if it helped ppl, instead of pointing fingers, disproving others religions while having no proof of their own.

[DaNatural]

According to evolution God doesnt need to exist, however, something had to have been there to kick start the whole process. I personally am agnostic, this world in many cases is somewhat mystical, but i dont need some man made bible to tell me so. Organized religion seems to be a tool to keep us in line. It pacifies people by making them live their life in a "holy" way which basically means following a bunch of rules which have no merit in a capitalist society.

[Lardlad95]

Why must everyone need to explain themselves? You don't believe in God fine, we don't need to here your reason why, those are your personal beliefs. All your going to do is piss some Christian fanatic off.


DaNAtural, yes organized religion has lot of problems. However people can have personal relationships with God.

[TheDerminator]

Lardlad95,

People must explain themselves. Belief without reason is a dangerous thing and we have learnt this lesson in history the hard way.

U should not get annoyed at athiests who R being true to their ownselves, as U see Urself being true to Ur ownself.

That is all any of us with the spirit of socialism can do.

May the Force be with U!

derminated

(Edited by TheDerminator at 5:55 pm on May 26, 2002)

[Dynatos]

Quote: from ZaPaTiStA SoCiAlIsTa on 3:31 am on May 26, 2002
I don’t believe in god, it is a notion invented by man. We created god in our own image, not the other way around. How can people blindly follow something which there is no proof of???

There Is proof of God. Every day you see him without realising hes there. For example: lets say your walking down the street and you see a car crash. Would you call 911 to help the people in the car or would you just egnore them and let the people in the car die. I think you would call 911 right? Even thought you have absolutly nothing to gain from helping those people you do it anyway. Thats proof of God.

[Menshevik]

Asking for the proof that God exists is like asking for proof of the existence of love. We all can talk about how love is prevelent in everyones' life at some point, but no one can pick it up and say, "here it is." You have to learn to accept God without seeing him/her; that's why they call it faith.

[Xvall]

Dead Prez said it best..

"Man Made god, out of ignorance and fear,
If god made man, then why the hell would he put us here?
I thought he's supposed to be the all lovin',
The same god who let Hitler put the jews in the oven.."

[Lardlad95]

i didn't mean he didn't need a reason I meant he didn't need to justify it to us because he wasn't trying to explain why he doesn't believe he was belittling other people's beliefs

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 3:36 am on May 27, 2002
Dead Prez said it best..

"Man Made god, out of ignorance and fear,
If god made man, then why the hell would he put us here?
I thought he's supposed to be the all lovin',
The same god who let Hitler put the jews in the oven.."


everything you just said was bullshit

We do shit to ourselves God gave us free will he didn't make Hitler do anything, Hitler did it himself.

If God were going to dictate every little thing he wouldn't have given us free will

[Dynatos]

God didn't put use here. The devil put us here. In The book of Genesis it explains that God made use in the garden of Eden where there is no pain, no suffering, and the human mind was free of evil. Then the devil shows up and puts evil thoughts in the human mind. Thats why we are here. Only when god beats the devil we'll be able to retern to the garden of eden.

[angry]

"God" gave us a little something called freedom, you know the thing most of us want ;)
the almighty is not here to dictate us, we are supposed to behave in a human way and if we do, I belive we will be rewarded in the after life (wich I belive in)

[Josip Broz Tito]

There Is proof of God. Every day you see him without realising hes there. For example: lets say your walking down the street and you see a car crash. Would you call 911 to help the people in the car or would you just egnore them and let the people in the car die. I think you would call 911 right? Even thought you have absolutly nothing to gain from helping those people you do it anyway. Thats proof of God.




I don't see the proof of god here. I don't need god to call 911. It has nothing to do with god but with personality. Some people would leave the place without calling 911. Using your logic I can say that god doesn't exist because some idiot didn't call 911.

[Anonymous]

yeh were the hell was God during the holocaust eh? having a fucking nap?

[Josip Broz Tito]

The good Christian would say to you that God acts in the mysterious ways to confuse you totally and make not think about all bad things came out from the religions. As Marx said "Religion is opium for people”.

[Dynatos]

God is part of your personality. Hes in all of use wether we like it or not. Your personality is divided between good and evil. To me God symbolizes the good in everyone and the devil symbolizes the evil in everyone. The people who would call 911 have more good than evil in there personality. The people that would not call 911 have more evil than good. The fight between good and evil takes place in everyone and like i said befor, only when god distroys the devil we'll be able to retern to Eden. And remember, when you read the bible you also have to read between the lines.

[angry]

that is what I have been talking about...if some of
you don´t belive in god, fine, I am not trying to make you belive in it, sure as heck no..
It helps me to belive in it and that is positive..you don´t need him fine but just don´t try to "proof" it does not exist, god is something you find in yourself...it is not supposed to dictate us...it gave us freedom...so don´t give me the crap about hitler and god, omg,
I am not here to rape your mind..

[Josip Broz Tito]

Dynatos, I agree that calling or not calling 911 represent good and evil in us. But it doesn't represents god in us. Angry, I believe that the topic of this discussion was "Does God exist??", so I am totally free to elaborate proofs that god doesn' exist.
Dynatos, please show me god, not some bullshit about his invisability, that he is in us (why he is he but not she or it?)? Could you show me devil? I am looking for examples of god, devil, garden of eden, not theories. Also, could you find anybody who returned from garden of eden or hell? I woud like to talk with him/her.
Very simple questions.

[angry]

omg, josip, "garden of eden" is an example..not complete truth..I for an example don´t belive the bible in exact words, like somebody said before you have to read between the lines..the way to be a perfect man is to follow the 10 commandments..you can´t argue about that can you..?
yes okey, you can try to proof that it does not exist, but how can you do that, if we cannot even proof it exists..
if you had read my earlier posts you would have seen I always say "it" not he or she..

[Dynatos]

Ok it's true. I don't have PHYSICAL proof that God is here and i don't think there ever will be. like Menshevik said ''Asking for the proof that God exists is like asking for proof of the existence of love.'' everyone knows love is in everyone but nobody can physically proof it's there. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Can you physically proof God is not here?

[thebigcom]

The concept of God will continue to baffle the minds of all those who walk upon the earth. is there really a god? no one will ever really know. was the concept itself created so that people did not have to deal with the mind boggling question of how we got here from nothingness. this question, no matter how many times debated, will not be answered for those who still dwell in the trappings of mortal flesh.

[Ian]

Let's think about this love question ok? Scientifically love is just extreme happiness (the happiness due to the release of endorphins and the feeling you have associated mentally with a picture of the thing you love, an instinct we have from when we were babies and needed to know who our mother was, a bit off topic but you know that if you look at someone you hate you feel hate) this extreme happiness can be seen with an ultra-sound of brain activity to see if the part of the brain that sends the mental picture is active when the person see the person or thing they love and whether the pituatry gland is also active, and how much so. So to answer the question, yes, love is tangible, the brain and endorphins are tangible. God is NOT tangible in any way, shape, or form.

[angry]

"tangible" can you tell me what that means..? (sry for me disknoledge) but if you are talking about a proof in you brain that he exist then he does exist if you belive in him...we will only know for sure when we are dead..

[hobo]

IF there was a god do you really think he would support half of the beliefs upheld in most religions. Class structured society, not loving all people equally.
Religion is a form of social control and its finally being pulled down, it will take years for it to be gone completey but the first steps are being taking here in Britain anyway. Soon long term relationships and gay couples will have the same rights as married couples, so if there other half is lying on a hospital bed bleeding t death that person can allow doctors to perform life saving surgery on them. and the church opposes this. Why because it takes away their manipulative social power.

[Dynatos]

Ian, You've just explained how love makes you happy. If your argument was how happines makes you love then you would have a good point but fact is that happines dosn't make you love. When your happy and you see a stranger you don't autonatically love them. There is no physical proof of love and how the 'brain decides' who to love and who to hate. Love is a creation of God. Love is in your soul not you brain.

[Josip Broz Tito]

This is a good discussion. angry, ten commandments are very good thing. They represent morality and ethics that we should all respect. I am not talking about right or wrong in the religious book. I am not denying the good in them. My problem with all god's books and religions is concept. How they were created. My driving force, the reason why I started not to take anything for granted was Dostojevsky's sentence in Brothers Karamazov "Did God create us, or it was vice-versa". People who take things for granted never ask "was it vice-versa". I read the Bible and the Quran. There is no doubt that there are some very good things in them. But, is it really god? I don't think so. Reason: Quran fits very well in 7th, maybe 8th century. Already in 9th century it becomes old, backward. In 21st century, complete implementation of Quran is dangerous for society.
Now I ask myself. God is perfect, right? So, if it/she/he is perfect how come that something it/she/he created can be so imperfect, so dangerous?
The logical conclusion is that Quaran was not created by god, but by a simple man. Only man, who is not perfect, makes mistakes.
With this, I don't deny Quran only, it is just a book, I deny the whole concept of god, because you cannot say, OK, I don't believe in some aspects of Bible, but I believe in god. It is contradictory. You can either believe or not. If you don't believe in some aspects of Bible, you deny some aspects of god. How can you deny god?

[angry]

Josip, I don´t deny god, I just think the stories (such as adam and eve) are just examples, (just you know like the ones jesus is supposed to have told), and not the "holy" truth...I personally think god is not a person such as you and me, does not have a physical body...just something that is inside us...a inner power..."god" is something like "the soul" for me, are you following me? I am not here to be a missionary or anything like that, I am not trying to force me religion up on you or any other...(like the church does, wich I don´t like), I belive any man should belive in what he wants to belive, be free, I am only trying to make you understand me, why I belive in "god" as such..
the thing about the bible you said was interesting, but it´s kinda like the manifesto for some of the members here...they belive there have to be made certain changes...

[Josip Broz Tito]

Well that is something different then. Believing in "inner self" is not like believing in god. It is a completely different thing. I can also say that I believe in myself. But angry, do you believe that "inner you" controls you?

[angry]

the "inner me" is me and I like to call that power "god"
wich is a part of me...not exactly me though..:)
and yes the inner me controls e up to a certain point, like I have moral codes fore I belive ´cause of "god"

[Avamatha]

Well, I believe in god or gods, whatever higher energy, but not in the one and truone, not in the Christian God.
Why would he be a man? How could it be a woman?
I don't think it has sex, if there is only one god.

[timbaly]

i think some person who needed something to get thier spirits up created a"GOD". I think its just a story somebody wrote. After a while people forgot about who wrote the book and gradually started following it because of tradition. Than nobody wanted to stop following it because the followers would turn against them and try to kill them saying they are "evil spirits". People followed it because they were afraid of the consequences such as "HELL". These days people just say "believe" in it only because people forced it upon them and not because they believe it. They have no proof of the existence of god but the "FEAR" factor of hell scares them into believing, even though they have no proof of hell either.

(Edited by timbaly at 8:40 am on June 1, 2002)

[liderDeFARC]

i cant agree with you more timbaly.... excellent. Someone who had nothing better to do with his life.

*Excuse me while i go and recite the memorized bedtime prayer to the almighty Lord*


JESUS HAS HELPED ME LIFE

OH SHOUT OUT TO anybody who recognizes it:

SMILE JESUS LOVES YOU

[RGacky3]

If all you say is true then I guess its just irony, that all of the bible fits together, even though, it was writen over a span of thousands of years. Also that most everything it predicted is true.

[timbaly]

well you do have a point RGacky3 but the reason it was written over a long span of hundreds of years is that the bible brainwashes people and gives some "die hard" followers dilusions so they think they have stigmata and have visions to tell them to write more to the bible and the followers of the bible believe the acusations unlike now an age of where everything except religion needs proof

[RGacky3]

that is true Religion does need proof, people who just follow their religion, becouse, their parents brought them up that way, or becouse they just want easy salutions are supid. To believe in a religion, one should first, study, it make sure that it is logical and it is the truth, then believe in it. If you don't want to do that be athiest, but I personally think that god exists, and that the bible has lots of truth to it.

[angry]

this is one of me last post for a long time so I can´t argue, just this one post, read me earlier posts on this subject, "inner me" ring a bell..I don´t go after the bible..just examples..and the bible can´t be logical as we know something that is "logical"..immpossible..but belive in your inner self and you will do well..(you may call it "god" or whatever you want to, just as long as i helps you/makes you stronger)...got me point..:)..?
(this works for me..btw don´t try to put a question for me, ´cause I wont answer fore I am going away)

cheers,

angry..

[timbaly]

let me get this straight if someone told you an invisible man was watching every little move you make you would probaly tell them they're crazy.
However religion tells you to do just that
it has you believing an invisible man up in the clouds is watching every minute of your life for as long as you live.
Then they say he has a list of ten things you must never ever do and if you do any of them he'll send you to special place for ALL eternity called HELL where you will experience hate, suffering, torture and punishment amongst the flames in intense heat
...................BUT..........he loves you.

this is what George Carlin has said countless times and it doesn't seem like religion makes much sense to him and i'm sure many of you feel the same way including me

(Edited by timbaly at 7:32 am on June 3, 2002)


(Edited by timbaly at 7:36 am on June 3, 2002)

[RGacky3]

I believe in god. But I think that Hell and HEaven bullshit was just made up to scare people.

[timbaly]

at least we agree on that

[andresG]

Religion can be a wonderful thing, just like believing in God, but when used for good. If religion and the belief of God leads you to help humanity then I see nothing wrong in it.

Camilo Torres was a Colombian Catholic Priest who denounced the wrongs that occured, during his mass. Instead of speaking of heaven and hell he spoke about feeding the hungry and giving shelter to those who need it.

"If we know that hunger kills in this life, then what use is their in talking about the afterlife."
-Camilo Torres

Camilo Torres joined the armed struggle in Colombia (back when the guerrillas were still fighting for the the people) and took action on his word about helping your fellow man. He did not just preach about helping the poor and the ones who have nothing he actually did something about it. He did what he preached, which is something very rare.

"La Revolución, por lo tanto, es la forma de lograr un gobierno que dé de comer al hambriento, que vista al desnudo, que enseñe al que no sabe, que cumpla con las obras de caridad, de amor al prójimo, no solamente en forma ocasional y transitoria, no solamente para unos pocos, sino para la mayoría de nuestros prójimos. Por eso la Revolución no solamente es permitida sino obligatoria para los cristianos que vean en ella la única manera eficaz y amplia de realizar el amor para todos".
3 de agosto de 1965 Camilo Torres

"The Revolution is a way to form a government that feeds the hungry, clothe the naked, teach those with no education, meet with the expectations of genorosity, not only in a occasional or transistory form, not only for a few people, but for the majority of our fellow man. This is why the Revolution is not only permitted, but an obligation to all Christians who see it as the only way to bring love to all."
August 3, 1965 Camilo Torres

If all people who believed in God behaved in this matter then the world would be a wonderful place, with no hungry, no homeless. We would live in a world where true equality existed.

[Dynatos]

Quote: from timbaly on 2:29 am on June 3, 2002
let me get this straight if someone told you an invisible man was watching every little move you make you would probaly tell them they're crazy.
However religion tells you to do just that
it has you believing an invisible man up in the clouds is watching every minute of your life for as long as you live.
Then they say he has a list of ten things you must never ever do and if you do any of them he'll send you to special place for ALL eternity called HELL where you will experience hate, suffering, torture and punishment amongst the flames in intense heat
...................BUT..........he loves you.

this is what George Carlin has said countless times and it doesn't seem like religion makes much sense to him and i'm sure many of you feel the same way including me


Fist of all God is not an invisable man. Like i said befor, God if a force within us.
Secondly, God gave us the ten comandments to help us live a better life. Even if you don't believe in God you know that you should follow the 10 commandments (6 of them at lest. The other 4 are mostly for believers).
Therdly, God dosn't 'send' people to hell, people choose to go to hell because the devil tries to attracks them.God is trying to save the sinners from going to hell but some people are just to evil.

[The Ax]

Hey,
Heaven and Hell probably exist but i don't think there is a set criterea to get in.

The Ax