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View Full Version : Discrediting the "revolution".



El Che
24th May 2002, 01:01
I realise this is a futile exercise, but I think its importante say something against the "revolution". Here revolution is intended as a coup to take over and retain power in the name of the working class. You all know the political philosophy behind it, so I wont waste time by going into that. But I think its importante to realise whats wrong with this picture, because something is definatly wrong with the picture in question. Yet I still see many people that suport an unlegitimate from of goverment, born through violent means. Many have stated that the only reason they dont contribute to take power by force is because there is someone to stop them, no moral imperitive would stop them from doing so, infact its something they desire. That is where I get off, that is where I distance my self from that position and those who suport it.

In the same way I defend Socialism, I also defend Democracy, because both of these things are whats right to defend. Capitalists like to confuse Capitalism with Democracy, you people give them a helping hand with your revolutionary naivity. Either you believe that people should have power over the state or you believe the oposite, there is no middle ground there is no ambiguity. This is also a dividing line within the political spectrum, a line between the democratic and the non democratic left. You can not justify non democratic goverment exactly because non democratic goverment does not justify its self. Non democratic goverment subtracts its self from public escrutiny, and people who defend this are anti-human, they have no respect for human beings. Because if you have respect for human beings you will recognise them the right to rule them selves, if you do not you have as much consideration for them as you have for sheep. I urge you to think carefuly about this, you must be responsible in your positions if you wish to be taken seriously. How can you seriously defend the legitimacy of a minority to rule by force? Its very easy to be a romantic idealist but its also very shallow.


Some say that the Democracy that exists now, in europe and the US for example, is bourgeois Democracy. To this I would say two things.

Firstly this is a disputable claim, democracy is not bourgeois, but what you have is enterferance in democracy by economic powers that obviously try to defend their interests. Coupled with that you have political forces that act within democracy to defend the interests of economics powers, that is to say that you have politicians, that compete for popular suport (votes), with legitimacy and in full exercise of their democratic rights. We must get rid of this idea that political capitalists shouldn`t have a right to defend what they stand for, if you think that way then you have absolutly no idea what message behind the concept "democracy" is. And you must separate those democraticaly legitimate political positions, from unlegitimate enterferances by economic powers. To give you an example, I think that large contributions be corporations to political parties hurt democracy and should be fought.

Secondly lets admit, for argumentation`s sake, that democracy is completly subverted or "bourgeois" in a given contry. Why then my revolutionary friends would you defend a system that seeks to prepetuate this injustice? what if it doesn`t exist in the first place then that means its ok for us not to defend democracy as long as we are the ones in power? Do you realise how flawed that is? If there is no democracy in your contry then obviously, as person of conscience that you are, it should be one of your objectives, and if it is not then you are a fascist.

Other issues could be raised from a leftist point of view, from the point of view of what the Marxist left seeks to achive. But the above are the universal ones, and they are quite enough.

(Edited by El Che at 1:16 am on May 24, 2002)

Valkyrie
24th May 2002, 01:20
Good El Che! We don't agree on much -- But we agree on this!

RGacky3
24th May 2002, 01:45
I think a revolution is only necessary when the government will not allow democracy.

lenin
28th May 2002, 18:08
i will answer this in more depth later but for know, i suggest you read lenins 'state and revolution' to realise how 'democracy' does not work. the dictatorship of the prolateriat seeks to take out all class enemies and only when that is done, can peoples democracy (not boureois deomcracy) prevail.

El Che
29th May 2002, 01:22
I reject, denounce and repudiate your fascist aint-human claims and intentions lenin.

Son of Scargill
29th May 2002, 09:09
I agree El Che,any revolution will fail sooner or later,if it does not have the genuine support of a large majority.50%+1 is not good enough.Those left out will always feel resentment for(in their view)being disenfranchised from any control of their lives.Just as many from the left do so now.The seeds of counter-revolution are sown the day an armed minority seizes power.
That is not to say that armed revolution is totally invalid.Indeed,it is necessary in the case of brutal oppression.But,in my country,there is a chance,however slim,that change could be achieved through peaceful means,and that is the FIRST option to work for in industralised Europe.People want change,not armed revolution,if they start shouting for an uprising,then it's time to review the situation for what it is,at the time.Although discontent is growing here,it is more because of the steady amalgamation of the policies of the three main parties.We must build credible socialist opposition.That is what is lacking,not guns.

lenin
29th May 2002, 14:02
communism will NEVER, i repeat NEVER prevail through the ballot box. if you think it will, you are dreaming. the fact of the matter is this, communism's main support comes from the working class, very few members of the working class even vote! the whole idea of the revolution (or coup, because thats what it is) and the dictatorship of the prolateriat is to rule on behalf of the prolatariat! sort of like populism.
the only way to bring a communist government to power is through a coup. there are communist governmnets across the globe that have got in 'democratically'. but they are governmnets who first got in by a coup, and have reformed.
the truth is, everyone would love a people revolution where thousands storm governmnet buildings or an election where everyone votes communist governments in. but it has never and will never (in our lifetimes) happen.