Ode to Country Music

[chimx]

Country never was my favorite genre. But when I wake up with the sun and head to a job site, I find few things that are better. I love country songs that make me proud to work, that give dignity to working with my hands.

Here are a couple of songs that I like listening to for those reasons:

The Highway Men - "highway man" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlgYxbtJb1Y)

Johnny Cash and June Carter - "If I were a Carpenter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p__bV2Glq04)

I also like a lot of new stuff: Jason Aldean - "Amarillo Sky" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSX2SoBd1RE) is great.

Anyone else have any good workin' class country songs that they love?

[chimx]

I nearly forgot Kris Kristofferson - "In the news" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxm17Soz3c)

edit add: and if you like that song, you might like johnny cash's "Gods gonna cut you down" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTLvVgr8c0)

[Comrade_Scott]

dude i love country but no so hot for the new stuff... more of a highwayman guy try pancho and lefty its a great song

[LeftinOhio]

I'm more of a fan of that bluegrass subgenre, as country is a bit too slow and poppy for my taste.

For political content there are some good bluegrass songs, and bluegrass treatments of trad songs, that can be quite good, as there is sort of a political or "protest" subtext to the lyics.

A younger guy who does more straight country with a political edge is Otis Gibbs, who's based in Indiana.

[Phalanx]

Johnny Horton and Hank Williams Sr. are also very good. The new stuff is absolute shit though. They've incorporated way too much of the rock and pop sound into their music, it doesn't sound real anymore. Country has to go back to its roots.

[Hiero]

I have become a fan of Johnny Cash. He is one of the few "legends" of music, someone who can keep making great music till they die.

[Cyanide Suicide]

Johnny Cash is the only specific artist from the genre I've ever really been into. However, I do like listening to random old country on the radio, especially when driving. Although I can't help but feel a bit hickish.

But the KROSE radio station from the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas videogame was a pleasant surprise for me, I like almost all of those tunes.

[RebelDog]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 02:02 am
I have become a fan of Johnny Cash. He is one of the few "legends" of music, someone who can keep making great music till they die.
Yeah, and beyond!

[BreadBros]

Oh man, the Highwaymen are so badass, I've been in love with them since hearing that song on the radio at night long ago.

As for other good country shit. I really like anything country-ish that Bob Dylan made. In particular 'Nashville Skyline' is a great album.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm not a big fan of country music myself.

My grandad was a bassist in a country band called the Nancy Rivers Country Band. There isn't any of their music online as far as I know, though, adn it was only a very local band (he also played in a jazz band as well).

[anarchista feminista]

Johnny Cash is brilliant. I quite like country because I grew up with it. My mum's family are all from the country. My pa loved Slim Dusty, not so much a fan but yeah. I also quite enjoy Kenny Rogers. Quite shameful actually :blush:

EDIT: alot of Australian music is working type music. Not necessarily about working, but you know. Hunters and Collectors, Cold Chisel, Midnight Oil. That kinda thing. A billion "beer songs" "driving songs" "bbq songs" "aussie classics" and similarly labelled cd&#39;s are released every year. :lol: <_<

[LeftinOhio]

Midnight Oil is great&#33; I wouldn&#39;t call them a country band, but they do have a great sound. Lyrics are neat too, a lot of political conten, and very forcefull delivery.

One of my favorite Australian bands, actually favorite bands period, was Weddings Partys Anything. The Weddoes where pretty much unknown in the "states, and I found out about them via a Billy Bragg fansite. I just love their stuff, though only have a few CDs (Roaring Days has some great tunes...including the title cut, one of those drinking songs.., but also Hungry Years as a good class concious song)

[anarchista feminista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 08:24 am
Midnight Oil is great&#33; I wouldn&#39;t call them a country band, but they do have a great sound. Lyrics are neat too, a lot of political conten, and very forcefull delivery.

One of my favorite Australian bands, actually favorite bands period, was Weddings Partys Anything. The Weddoes where pretty much unknown in the "states, and I found out about them via a Billy Bragg fansite. I just love their stuff, though only have a few CDs (Roaring Days has some great tunes...including the title cut, one of those drinking songs.., but also Hungry Years as a good class concious song)
Yeah, none of those bands are really country. But Australian music does have an element to it that you can&#39;t really find anywhere else.

Good Australian music you&#39;d have to check out is Radio Birdman and The Saints. Alot of good local bands. The New Justice Team are AWESOME. Alot of people like anarchoi also. Plenty of anarcho-crust bands in Sydney.

And I have a soft spot for Frenzal Rhomb. :wub:

[analfilth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 11:13 pm

Good Australian music you&#39;d have to check out is Radio Birdman and The Saints. Alot of good local bands. The New Justice Team are AWESOME. Alot of people like anarchoi also. Plenty of anarcho-crust bands in Sydney.

And I have a soft spot for Frenzal Rhomb. :wub: [/quote]
:o how dare you a_o&#33;
mentioning such great bands in a thread about country&#33; tisktisktisk&#33; you should be ashamed of yourself :P

[ahab]

yuck I hate fucking country, it just doesnt ring well in my head, except Johnny Cash, but everybody loves him&#33;

[The Spirit of 1918]

Every now and then you just gotta but on your dirty wifebeater, drink some Jack Danny strait&#39; outta bottle and shout jiiii-haaa in your balcony, just to piss off all your neighbours in your local finnish housing project.

Johnny Cash, naturally. Because Johnny Cash is everything. Bloodshot Records (http://www.bloodshotrecords.com/) have some great stuff, like Waco Brothers, fucking great.

Oh, and Steve Earle, who calls himself "borderline Marxist", great stuff.
Drive-by Truckers, some Willie Nelson, some Grateful Dead, is that country, who cares. Its great.

And I just love Dolly Parton, &#39;9 to 5&#39; is a true pissed-off-working-class anthem.

9 to 5, yeah, they got you where they want you.
There&#39;s a better life, and you think about it, don&#39;t you.
It&#39;s a rich man&#39;s game, no matter what they call it.
And you spend your life, puttin&#39; money in his wallet.

Sorry, I&#39;m shitfaced, don&#39;t mind me.

[détrop]

I hate country music with a passion. Blue-grass, which is not to be confused with mainstream country music, had some dignity about it, and I do enjoy it.

Country music works like a band-aid for american lower-class redneck trash. Its another opiate. The music is the glorification of the struggle of the american working man to the point where he almost becomes happy that he is struggling so much and that he is so stupid. A celebration of tragedy...like a retarded kid beating himself in the head. Listen to the lyrics. What are they about? The same thing: working for the man, can&#39;t pay the rent, my woman has left me, the dog died, my daddy was a good man, Jesus will save me, etc., etc.

Johnny Cash is the hero of some two million hillbilly morons spread out across the corn fields of america. Okay, I have a prejudice against him. I won&#39;t lie. He acted like an ass toward Zappa one time and for that I will never forgive him.

I can understand how many of you might take an interest in country music, being that you are from other countries. But I assure you that if you were here, in the southeastern united states, you would want to vomit once you saw what this music does to people and the type of people who listen to it.

Anyway I made a Cash parody video of pictures over "Ring of Fire," which Zappa covered to make fun of his dumb ass. I&#39;ll post it if you want to see it. Its quite funny.

[chimx]

You just called working people: redneck trash, stupid, "retarded kids", and hillbilly morons.

All in one post too.

Also: fuck zappa.

[détrop]

They can be revived with a little education. Now, however, they are backward and useless....almost to the point of being part of the problem.

[détrop]

http://www.badongo.com/vid/281948

Place your vote now:

http://www.cover-vs-original.com/song-215.html

[détrop]

I told the boss that I could tell the general skill level of a carpenter, and approximately how long he has been doing it, in less than a sixty seconds. The boss laughed and said it would take at least a day, and that&#39;s assuming he could perform all aspects of the work in a day, which is usually imossible. I told the boss that because of the nature of the job, several specific things are extremely repetitive. Things like using a/the saw, or a pneumatic tool. How one positions themself on a ladder, how they organize their station, etc. Because of this, there are basic preliminary skills that should be aquired before anything else. The boss said that this wasn&#39;t true because people work differently, and asked for an example.

"See Joe over there?"

"Yeah," said the boss.

"He&#39;s right handed, is he not?"

"Yeah, he&#39;s right handed."

"Then why does he have his tape-measure in his right pouch, and why is he cutting the casing backward and pulling his measurement form the left?"

The boss said, "I dunno....maybe he likes it that way."

"If he holds his pencil with his right hand to make his marks when cutting, he has to first take his tape-measure out of his right pouch with his right hand and pass it to his left hand so he can get his pencil. If he put the tape-measure in his left pouch, he could grab both the pencil and the tape-measure at the same time. He would save approximately two seconds."

"This is silly," said the boss.

"But wait, I&#39;m just getting started. He also has his speed-square in his right pouch, which means it has to be passed to his left hand as well. But let&#39;s move on. See the way he cuts his mark? He touches the saw blade to the casing just barely, and then slides the piece to the left or the right a sixteenth or so until he hits his mark. He is also leaning to the left to do this. If he simply stood in front of the blade without leaning to the left, and looked down the blade with one eye, as if sighting a rifle or pool-cue, he could see the alignment before touching the blade to the wood, and could therefore make one single motion and make the right cut. This would save him approximately three seconds."

"Are you being serious here," asked the boss, with a sarcastic sigh.

"Well you are also saving money on saw blades because he isn&#39;t having to touch the blade that extra time, causing the blade to become duller sooner. You save approximately six cents per nine houses."

The boss rolled his eyes.

"Now see how he cuts his coped edge? He turns the saw to a forty-five degree angle. Instead of this, he could just leave the arm loose and tilt the balde to its equivalent forty-five degree mitre angle....and spare himself the effort of having to grasp the latch and lock it into place each and every time he makes his cut. Not to mention doing it this way allows him to slide the piece from the right, which in turn is complimentary to him being right handed. The other way causes him to pull his measurement from the left, which means he must cross his right hand, which is holding the pencil, over his left to make his mark. This looks silly and clumsy and also costs him more time. He would save approximately six seconds if he did it the way I described."

"And now he&#39;s nailing baseboard. See how he starts at the left side, nails the piece in its inside corner, then goes to the extreme left side of the board...and nails that inside corner?

"Yeah," said the boss.

"He is causing himself to have to walk back across the distance he went once already to nail the middle, while he could&#39;ve just nailed the piece as he went, from the right to the left. And he is walking more....which would cause him to get tired sooner. He would save approximately five seconds, doing it this way, depending on the length of the piece."

"Now watch how he nails the piece to the wall. He tries to stand directly in front of the stud marks on the wall, which are revealed by the dots of drywall mud. If he just kept the gun in front of him and learned to watch the top of the piece of base and how it snugs up to the wall suddenly if you hit a stud, he could, in two shots, at least hit the stud with one of the two nails...which is all that is necessary, and would therefore not have to spend time lining his shots up with the stud marks. He would just move in one direction with the gun in front of him. Also, you can hear it when you hit a stud. The thump is distinct and not like the sound when you miss. In combination with the nailing method, this makes it unlikely that you&#39;ll miss the stud. He would save approximately five seconds per piece...depending on how long it was."

"Okay what is your point," asks the boss impatiently. "Are you trying to tell me that a few seconds is even important?"

"Well yeah, techincally, but that wasn&#39;t my real point here. My point is that regardless of whether or not these meager seconds save you any money, it is in principle faster, and therefore better, than the way he is doing it. The better carpenter would have naturally discovered this principle by himself already, and changed his methods. In ten years this guy is still doing it the wrong way, because he hasn&#39;t the ingenuity to enhance his own performance and get better. Someone would have to teach him and explain why the other method is better. This marks the inferior carpenter, and in less than sixty seconds, during any of the above scenarios, I can determine if he is deserving of the wages he wants as it is the average wage for a carpenter with X amount of experience."

"If you weren&#39;t such a dumb-ass yourself, you would have noticed this and tried to teach your workers the best and most efficient methods for this work. But because you are a dumb-ass, I quit. You cannot possibly make a rational and intelligent decision about how much I should get paid if you don&#39;t know this much because you wouldn&#39;t notice the difference anyway between methods. Now go read a fucking book, Dale Earnhardt."

[chimx]

Wtf was the point of that? It isn&#39;t even relevant. Are you just trying to show off that you know what a pneumatic nail gun is?

Sometimes I walk back over jobsites 20 times because i&#39;m bored and don&#39;t want to work. Sometimes I doodle hammer and sickles on jobsite outhouses. It has fuck all to do with "skill". I&#39;m not going to bust my ass so my boss can make extra money.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by dé[email protected] 02, 2007 06:31 pm
I hate country music with a passion. Blue-grass, which is not to be confused with mainstream country music, had some dignity about it, and I do enjoy it.

Country music works like a band-aid for american lower-class redneck trash. Its another opiate. The music is the glorification of the struggle of the american working man to the point where he almost becomes happy that he is struggling so much and that he is so stupid. A celebration of tragedy...like a retarded kid beating himself in the head. Listen to the lyrics. What are they about? The same thing: working for the man, can&#39;t pay the rent, my woman has left me, the dog died, my daddy was a good man, Jesus will save me, etc., etc.

Johnny Cash is the hero of some two million hillbilly morons spread out across the corn fields of america. Okay, I have a prejudice against him. I won&#39;t lie. He acted like an ass toward Zappa one time and for that I will never forgive him.

I can understand how many of you might take an interest in country music, being that you are from other countries. But I assure you that if you were here, in the southeastern united states, you would want to vomit once you saw what this music does to people and the type of people who listen to it.

Anyway I made a Cash parody video of pictures over "Ring of Fire," which Zappa covered to make fun of his dumb ass. I&#39;ll post it if you want to see it. Its quite funny.
Dude, you&#39;re an ass.

Oh, how dare he insult Frank Zappa.
:lol:
Frank Zappa is a libertarian dick. He can fuck off.
He did make some good music, though.

I lived for a long time in the Southern US and I have nothing against folks who like country music. I like a lot of country music myself. Stop being such a pretentious and prejudicial ass-hole. Country music is the folk music of WASPs, basically. Workers or not. So yes, there is plenty of reactionary trash. But not all.

[détrop]

Why am I getting a "forbidden post" return when I try to post here?

[détrop]

Wtf was the point of that?

The point was to demonstrate to you that just because one is part of the "working class" doesn&#39;t mean one automatically gets my fucking sympathy. The two part demonstration showed how not only are a great majority of workers incompetent, but also the employers because they are not aware of better methods. You get the two of these chumps together and what results is a circus. I come along and try to make the conditions better and both of them despise me: the workers because they are jealous and competeting with me for higher wages, and the boss because I just made him look like an ass.


Sometimes I walk back over jobsites 20 times because i&#39;m bored and don&#39;t want to work. Sometimes I doodle hammer and sickles on jobsite outhouses. It has fuck all to do with "skill".

You are the kind of fucker who makes things worse. I wouldn&#39;t step foot on a job-site with you on it, and I certainly wouldn&#39;t work in the same crew as you. People like you, with this "we&#39;re getting paid by the hour...let&#39;s milk it" attitude are the reasons why people like me do not make higher wages. When the boss makes his draw on the completed work and pays his crew, his profit margin is so small there isn&#39;t a chance in hell any of us get raises, and this is because he is paying fuckers like you who want to pretend to be a revolutionary so you scribble shit on the porta-john walls and fuck off when you should be working.


I&#39;m not going to bust my ass so my boss can make extra money.

Great...but don&#39;t fuck your co-workers in the process. You hate your boss....kill him, but your attitude and lack of performance is one reason why your comrades are struggling.

No dude. I&#39;m not trying to show off. Carpentry is not rocket science. Now fuck off.

[détrop]

Dr. Cock:


Frank Zappa is a libertarian dick.

Frank called himself a "conservative" in his book. He also gave only a brief opinion on communism: "communism will not work because people want to own stuff." This, of course, is true, but it certainly isn&#39;t a legitimate argument against communism. The irony is that Frank was probably the most politically active musician of his era, and he did nothing but pester the shit outta politicans.....

[chimx]

You are the kind of fucker who makes things worse. I wouldn&#39;t step foot on a job-site with you on it, and I certainly wouldn&#39;t work in the same crew as you. People like you, with this "we&#39;re getting paid by the hour...let&#39;s milk it" attitude are the reasons why people like me do not make higher wages. When the boss makes his draw on the completed work and pays his crew, his profit margin is so small there isn&#39;t a chance in hell any of us get raises, and this is because he is paying fuckers like you who want to pretend to be a revolutionary so you scribble shit on the porta-john walls and fuck off when you should be working.

1) You don&#39;t know a god damn thing about the way I work, the quality of my work, or the speed at which I work. I can shingle a roof faster than 90% of roofers. I can weld and detail TPO, PVC, or Hypalon better than most people that have been doing it for the same amount of time.

2) I work hard, but I ain&#39;t going to fucking slay myself so little aspiring petite-bourgeois fuckwads, that spend most of their time sticking their fucking nose up the bosses ass, can make extra money off of the company&#39;s surplus value that is created by *my labor*. It&#39;s *my labor*, so I&#39;ll do whatever the fuck I want with it and as far as I can.

3) You sound like a fucking scab with your attitude of hating workers that hate bosses.

4) You&#39;re right. Carpentry isn&#39;t rocket science. Luckily we have idiots such as yourself to install trusses instead of intelligent people.

[détrop]

Well isn&#39;t this cute. Okay, I&#39;m game. Let&#39;s do it.

Roofing and welding isn&#39;t even remotely comparable to framing. A five year old could learn how to roof if he had the strength. But I will give you this: roofing is one of the most physically strenuous jobs there is. I suspect you are harder than a coffin nail. I admire that.


I can shingle a roof faster than 90% of roofers.

Yeah, that&#39;s what they all say.

Just kidding, I believe you brother. But you have to agree-- they all say that.


but I ain&#39;t going to fucking slay myself so little aspiring petite-bourgeois fuckwads, that spend most of their time sticking their fucking nose up the bosses ass, can make extra money off of the company&#39;s surplus value that is created by *my labor*

Then you do understand my point, and the comical tragedy of these working conditions. You mention "surplus," and indeed, that&#39;s what I am speaking about. The dilemma is this: you are fighting against your co-workers while you should be united together and fighting against your employer. But you cannot....because you are in a catch22, just as they are. If you are the better worker, the less skilled workers who do not produce as much as you, even though making lower wages, cause a steady decline in the production rate, and while you could do the work of the other guy who is making X amount per hour, in the same amount of time at the wage rate you are paid, the employer is often to stupid to realize this and refuses to downsize his crew. Now, you are "picking up the slack" of the other idiots. This means that not only is the employer exploiting you, but the co-workers are as well, since they rely on your production to increase the profit margin so that the employer can pay the whole crew. Which is to say, if you can do what Joe is doing in one hour, as well as what you can do in one hour, shouldn&#39;t you get the amount of pay per hour as Joe is getting plus what you get per hour? Absolutely, but alas...the boss is an idiot.

Then your attitude changes...and rightly so. "Why should I bust my ass." Precisely, why should you? You shouldn&#39;t, because in principle you are correct. But now you are fighting against backwards workers and your employer combined.

If I understand your situation correctly, then I support your attitude. Previously I suspected that you were a lazy worker simply because you are infuriated with the fact that you are being exploited. But if you are an exceptional worker, and realize the pointlessness of trying and making an effort....more power to you. Fuck em all, workers included, the brown nosing bastards.

Here&#39;s the funny thing about the construction industry and the capitalist: he doesn&#39;t even follow his own principles...he can&#39;t even get that much right.

What can you do man? Not a goddamn thing. You try to explain to your co-workers what is really going on, they look at you like you&#39;re stupid. At this point it is every man for himself....and this is the tragedy. The only solution for this is radical action, but even in this you will be alone. I encourage theft and property destruction. Make the motherfucker hurt and watch your back. But never stop trying to enlighten your co-workers. If they knew how right you were, they would help you in your efforts.

[détrop]

But did you like the video?

Oh come on. Cash is a dipshit.

"Its the same verse again..."

"Its one way on learning english..."

[laughing]

Frank was the greatest heckler the music industry has ever experienced. Pestering the fuck out of consumerist culture. A veritable Socrates with a guitar.

[chimx]

Roofing and welding isn&#39;t even remotely comparable to framing. A five year old could learn how to roof if he had the strength. But I will give you this: roofing is one of the most physically strenuous jobs there is. I suspect you are harder than a coffin nail. I admire that.

I could teach a fuckin&#39; monkey how to shingle in a day. For the most part it is pretty easy and self-explanatory. And if in doubt: use silicone caulk. commercial single-ply roofing (i.e.: flat roofing) is far more complicated and takes a lot of experience and know-how.

I&#39;m also 6&#39; and weigh less than 140lbs. Physically demanding labor doesn&#39;t have anything to do with big muscles. It is simply an attitude of knowing what you are capable of, and then doing it. (Still, I despise shingling, simply because of the monotony, and would prefer to exclusively work single-ply roofs. Right now i&#39;m stuck spending my time between half pitched roof, half flat roof.)


Yeah, that&#39;s what they all say.

It is what they all say. On a roof that isn&#39;t cut up and with a pitch below 6/12, I can usually do 30 square a day. Most people average about 20 on the same shit. On cut up shit, dormers, eyebrows, etc., it obviously isn&#39;t that much.


Then you do understand my point, and the comical tragedy of these working conditions.

My problem with your example is that it lumps the lazy people in the same group as people that simply don&#39;t know any better. We used to have a shingle guy work for my company. He was fucking dumb as nails. If he ran a gun, he would probably get like 5 square on per day--on a good day. Everybody respected him though, because he did try and make an effort. (He later fell off a 3 story building and broke his legs, then died in a snowmobile accident. :( )

This is totally and completely different from the lazy foreman who uses his position as an excuse to sit in a lift all day, make runs to the hardware store, etc.

Even the folk that don&#39;t like working and take cigarette breaks every 30 minutes I could care less about. I get paid the same regardless. If everybody is gonna slow down on a jobsite, then fuck it. I&#39;m there with &#39;em. Maybe your company has different dynamics than mine, but I don&#39;t see the inter-employee conflict. The only inter-employee conflict that exists is between lazy foreman and the crew or the boss and the crew.

[détrop]

I think we are friends again, Chimx. I feel better now.


For the most part it is pretty easy and self-explanatory.

The skill in shingle laying is keeping your control line and your straight runs while keeping up a good pace. It should take you no longer than two seconds to put three tacks in one shingle. If you are laying thirty square a day....I bow down to you, sir.


And if in doubt: use silicone caulk.

Oh heavens no&#33; Use tar. Silicone cracks in two years of temperature changing. Then again, use silicone. Fuck the middle-class home-owners, the credit system using bastards&#33;


I&#39;m also 6&#39; and weigh less than 140lbs.

Damn, that&#39;s no good. Tall people have a higher point of gravity and this is not complimentary to roofing. Short dudes make the best roofers. You, my friend, should be framing or hanging drywall.


Physically demanding labor doesn&#39;t have anything to do with big muscles.

False modesty&#33; The average Joe couldn&#39;t even walk on a roof, much less lay shingles without falling on his ass. Be proud, noble one and tradesman&#33;


My problem with your example is that it lumps the lazy people in the same group as people that simply don&#39;t know any better. We used to have a shingle guy work for my company. He was fucking dumb as nails. If he ran a gun, he would probably get like 5 square on per day--on a good day. Everybody respected him though, because he did try and make an effort. (He later fell off a 3 story building and broke his legs, then died in a snowmobile accident. sad.gif )

This is totally and completely different from the lazy foreman who uses his position as an excuse to sit in a lift all day, make runs to the hardware store, etc.

Even the folk that don&#39;t like working and take cigarette breaks every 30 minutes I could care less about. I get paid the same regardless. If everybody is gonna slow down on a jobsite, then fuck it. I&#39;m there with &#39;em. Maybe your company has different dynamics than mine, but I don&#39;t see the inter-employee conflict. The only inter-employee conflict that exists is between lazy foreman and the crew or the boss and the crew.

I hear you loud and clear. I know the good ones from the bad ones, like yourself. As for my "company," well, I usually don&#39;t keep a job long enough to make a calculated judgement. The "dynamics" I speak of are subtle. You have to think like your boss and know how he decides who gets raises and who does not. There is indeed inter-employee conflicts if you look in the right places. You gonna tell me that the other guys aren&#39;t jealous of your skill? I don&#39;t believe you for one second.

The foreman and "middle men" can fuck off. I know exactly what you are talking about. Driving to the store to get nails for fifteen dollars an hour my ass. I&#39;ll run to the store faster than he drives there, for the wages he makes.

[chimx]

I think we are friends again, Chimx. I feel better now.

Sure. I trust people on this website that actually work hard jobs--as opposed to those that work in a nice warm office, but still say, "but under marxist analysis, i&#39;m still a proletarian... right? right?"


The skill in shingle laying is keeping your control line and your straight runs while keeping up a good pace. It should take you no longer than two seconds to put three tacks in one shingle.

That and knowing how to deal with metal flashing and high water areas. Even keeping your runs straight isn&#39;t a *huge* deal, so long as you aren&#39;t more than a couple of inches off. I&#39;m regularly an inch or two off. Just snap a line and keep going, its faster, and you can&#39;t tell the distance anyway. fyi: for architectural shingles, you need 5 nails per shingle, especially in the winter time. also, 30 squares a day assumes i don&#39;t have to waste my time laying drip edge and bullshit like that.


Oh heavens no&#33; Use tar. Silicone cracks in two years of temperature changing. Then again, use silicone.

Tar works fine for tacking down shingles n&#39; such for winter work, but I use silicone to fill in holes behind step flashing. the "just in case" areas.


Damn, that&#39;s no good. Tall people have a higher point of gravity and this is not complimentary to roofing. Short dudes make the best roofers.

Which is why my back always hurts, why I hate my job, and why I prefer to work on flat roofs.


False modesty&#33; The average Joe couldn&#39;t even walk on a roof, much less lay shingles without falling on his ass. Be proud, noble one and tradesman&#33;

Well nobody starts off with it. I remember my first week, I was terrified of heights and crawled around on a roof on all fours. :D

Now i can easily work on an 8/12, and still get around on higher pitches. Still, as far as the brute work goes, its all in the head. Your work ethic is what makes you strong, not big biceps. My scrawny ass is proof of that.


You gonna tell me that the other guys aren&#39;t jealous of your skill?

That&#39;s actually kind of funny. My boss is pretty nice, and has let me work on and off for 4+ years. I had been going to college, so I would work full time during the summer, but he would let me work half days after classes too. The problem is that I am one of the longest working employees at the company, but because i&#39;m always there and gone, I never climb the employee "totem" (except that my wages are pretty high compared to others). I occasionally act as a foreman (and when I do, I generally try to run things quasi-democratically. I don&#39;t like ordering people around unless they are douche bags), but that is few and far between. As it is, the guy that is usually my foreman (on shingle work) has about half the experience as me, and this results in a fucked up work condition that generally leaves me annoyed as fuck.

That&#39;s another nice thing about flat roof work. After you get the insulation and membrane laid out, you just grab some glue or a welder and go detail shit by yourself until the jobs done. That kind of drama isn&#39;t as common.

How long have you been doing carpentry?

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Frank Zappa Kicks alot more ass Than Johnny Cash. He was a better Guitar Player, He was far more creative, and his music doesnt follow the same fucking 1-4-5 chord progression that every Johnny Cash song follows. Country Music is fucking boring and is for the most part made up of jerk-off wannabe cowboys.

Just for the Record, Johnny Cash is cool. But Frank Zappa blows him out of the water.

[Led Zeppelin]

Free Bird&#33;

[détrop]

Free Bird&#33;

No, its "Stairbird to Freeway." Oh wait, I meant to say "Hotel Alabama." Shit....that&#39;s not right either. "Sweet Home California"? Fuck it....they&#39;re all the same. Anyway, its that song by Crosby Stole the Hash and Neil Sung, I think.

Oh nevermind.

Thank you Pow. You are the voice of reason among the howling mobs.


as opposed to those that work in a nice warm office

Those guys are called Desk Jockeys, and although they are wage workers too, they do not belong with construction workers. We are a different breed. Better.....faster....stronger....


a couple of inches off.

A couple inches off?&#33; Maybe in the fifty foot span, but come on man....you can do better than that.

Speaking of flashing, a few years ago they changed the code. Stainless steel flashing has to be used now when building with pressure treated lumber. They put a new chemicle in it that isn&#39;t carcinogenic, which is good news for the carpenters. Anyway the new chemicle disintegrates the standard galvinized flashing.

I started doing metal framing when I was eighteen, but got sick of wearing hard-hats and safety glasses and shit so I went to residential, where Osha wasn&#39;t so strict. They are now...but this was forteen years ago. Times have changed. More idiots are getting hurt on the job so the insurance claims are outrageous. Now Osha spies on the residential construction as well. I&#39;m pretty well rounded in all aspects of carpentry, and I do some mean stone work too. Flag-stone, dry stack, what have you.

[Phalanx]

I started doing metal framing when I was eighteen, but got sick of wearing hard-hats and safety glasses and shit so I went to residential, where Osha wasn&#39;t so strict. They are now...but this was forteen years ago. Times have changed. More idiots are getting hurt on the job so the insurance claims are outrageous. Now Osha spies on the residential construction as well. I&#39;m pretty well rounded in all aspects of carpentry, and I do some mean stone work too. Flag-stone, dry stack, what have you.

Why the hell would you be against OSHA?

[chimx]

Hah. I posted a thread in chitchat once called, "fuck osha," and a bunch of people that have never worked construction got all defensive of that bureaucratic nightmare. Work construction for a year, and you&#39;ll understand.


A couple inches off?&#33; Maybe in the fifty foot span, but come on man....you can do better than that.

Pssh, no way&#33; You&#39;ll save a ton of time by not fucking with the shingles and ensuring they are perfectly straight by just snapping a line. Just lay down your shingles good and fast, fuck your line, and snap it straight when you need to. I guarantee there is no difference in the quality unless you have your face down on the roof itself and eyeball the line. The time it takes to keep your line straight just isn&#39;t worth it. This is especially true for when you work out of valleys.

This has its limits of course. I know a guy who was 16 inches off on a dormer once&#33; We still give him shit about it.

[détrop]

Why the hell would you be against OSHA?

I certainly want the construction industry to be safe, but the way safety regulations are enforced...I find highly disagreeable. First, keep in mind that the reason why medical bills are so outrageous is because of the right to private practice. In turn, insurance rates are terribly high because medical service is so costly. It shouldn&#39;t cost 14,000 dollars to get a few stiches. Since these stakes are so high, Osha has to tighten its grip on the construction industry, and becomes a bothersome obstacle. Chimx knows what I&#39;m talking about. Osha agents will literally sit across the road in the woods and watch a crew with binoculars. If they see a cut in an electrical cord, for example, they sneak up and force the company owner to pay some outrageous fine. All this hype and excitiment is caused from the goddamn doctors and insurances companies trying to get rich while battling each other.

It is one thing to be safe, but if a crew were to follow the regulations by the book....they wouldn&#39;t get anything done&#33; I&#39;m not kidding. A framer is supposed to wear steel-toed boots, safety glasses, ear-plugs, hard hats, and safety-harnesses. You can&#39;t work with all that sit on man&#33; I know. I&#39;ve tried. Here&#39;s the irony: you are more likely to cut your finger off when wearing safety glasses because they get scratched and fogged up, causing your vision to be limited. You are more likely to fall off a roof when wearing a harness because you have to step over the line every time you turn around so you don&#39;t trip on it the fucking thing. The hard-hat sits like four inches above your head, and because of that, you are more likely to bump your head when trying to duck under some scaffolding or climb in a window, etc. I almost fell off some scaffolding once because of the fucking hard hat. I lost my balance trying to grab the thing to keep it from falling off. And boots ain&#39;t worth a shit for a framer. They are the worst kind of shoe you could wear. The traction is terrible for walking walls and climbing roofs.

If the majority of workers weren&#39;t so clumsy, I expect that in the last ten years, there wouldn&#39;t have been so many accidents, and Osha and the insurance companies wouldn&#39;t be so alarmed.

I don&#39;t work on Osha regulated jobs. I refuse. When I frame in the summer, I&#39;m going to have my shirt off and I&#39;m going to be wearing shorts and vans (the perfect shoe for carpenters). I will not wear all that safety shit. No fucking way.


unless you have your face down on the roof itself and eyeball the line.

You are right. It doesn&#39;t compromise the structural integrity, but it does look bad. Fortunately for you, a homeowner doesn&#39;t know the difference anyway, so you can get away with crooked runs.

[Rizzo]

For the most part, I dan&#39;t like country, at all... but Johny Cash is the Man. I at least consider him a ledgend, and feel that influenced several genres of music, not just limited to country.

[détrop]

...follow the same fucking 1-4-5 chord progression that every Johnny Cash song follows. Country Music is fucking boring and is for the most part made up of jerk-off wannabe cowboys.

[détrop]

Hey Beavis....uh-huh-huh...is that Garth Brooks?....uh-huh-huh-huh...

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/2/0/8/6/8946802-8946805-slarge.jpg

Yeah, yeah&#33;

He&#39;s "comin back from somewhere he never shoulda been."

Thunder Roll, Butt-Head&#33;

A-huh-huh-huh....huh-huh-huh&#33;

[détrop]

Hey Butt-head....hm..hm...which one is the mom?

http://www.brokenrecorddesigns.com/zcart/images/100_0078.jpg

Uhhhhhhhhh...huh-huh....I dunno, Beavis.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by Pow R. Toc [email protected] 04, 2007 08:26 pm
Frank Zappa Kicks alot more ass Than Johnny Cash. He was a better Guitar Player, He was far more creative, and his music doesnt follow the same fucking 1-4-5 chord progression that every Johnny Cash song follows. Country Music is fucking boring and is for the most part made up of jerk-off wannabe cowboys.

Just for the Record, Johnny Cash is cool. But Frank Zappa blows him out of the water.
One could make the exact same arguments against Bob Dylan, Joao Gilberto, and Robert Johnson.