Fdr, Was He A Socialist

[colorlessman]

He saw the great depression as a fault of free market capitalism.
He encouraged people to form collectives to counter and challenge capitalistic and big business power.
He believed the government should play a bigger part on the economy. It should not just be left to private interests.
He encouraged people to think as citizens instead of consumers.
Big business hated his agenda, because it threaten their powers to do as they like.
He almost turned America into a welfare state.

[bolshevik butcher]

Hardly, sure he enacted some emergency measures to try and save american capitalism during the despression, that doesn't make him a socialist. Britain was practically a planned economy during the war does that make churchill a socialist?

[KC]

That's like saying Keynes was a socialist.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Zampanò@February 22, 2007 01:22 pm
That's like saying Keynes was a socialist.
he favored social democracy (easy on the democracy)

[Leo]

I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.

[The Feral Underclass]

What is the point of this thread?

[KC]

It was created for you to trash.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

NO US President has ever been socialist.

Let's just leave it at that.

[KC]

Neither are you.

[Cheung Mo]

Roosevelt's political allies lynched African Americans for pleasure and banned cannabis at the behest of big business.

Not socialist.

Socialists do not treat minorities like shit (though powermongering assholes who claim to be socialists do) and do not ban harmless intoxicants because the capitalist elite's interests are threatened by them.

[RedCeltic]

Franklin D. Roosevelt was surely an interesting character. Probably the farthest left president in US History. The only president elected who was in a wheelchair. (That would never happen in the age of TV BTW.) By far, the most popular president in history, only one to have been elected four times. (he’s the reason there are term limits today.)

Regardless of the fact that everything in the “New Deal” could have been found in an old Socialist Party platform, FDR was not himself a socialist. I have always had great respect for the man, but he isn’t any more socialist than Ted Kennedy.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 02:24 pm
I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.
um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.

[Leo]

um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.

:D I know that's what you think, that's why I think the whole situation is so funny...

Yes, the Keynesian system is falling down, has been for the last thirty years - it is too expensive now as the pool is emptying out. It is still there but 'social benefits' are being taken everywhere in the world, unemployment has never been higher before, capitalism is slowly being decomposed... Of course, you are unable to recognize what a massive crisis this whole process will bring to the capitalist system, and you have no idea that you are actually advocating the acceleration of this process. You actually think that this process will be a good thing for capitalism. It's like 1929 all over again; the more real things get worse, the more you will pray for the invisible hand to come and save you. It won't, you can't examine the economics of a world system on a micro basis. Oh, and please save the effort of trying to find numbers in order to prove how good everything is; I know economics well enough to point out every trick used for making the numbers look as if everything is alright.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 04:15 pm

um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.

:D I know that's what you think, that's why I think the whole situation is so funny...

Yes, the Keynesian system is falling down, has been for the last thirty years - it is too expensive now as the pool is emptying out. It is still there but 'social benefits' are being taken everywhere in the world, unemployment has never been higher before, capitalism is slowly being decomposed... Of course, you are unable to recognize what a massive crisis this whole process will bring to the capitalist system, and you have no idea that you are actually advocating the acceleration of this process. You actually think that this process will be a good thing for capitalism. It's like 1929 all over again; the more real things get worse, the more you will pray for the invisible hand to come and save you. It won't, you can't examine the economics of a world system on a micro basis. Oh, and please save the effort of trying to find numbers in order to prove how good everything is; I know economics well enough to point out every trick used for making the numbers look as if everything is alright.
if you know economics so well, then why don't you actually say something to support your claim instead of just insisting that the whole system is collapsing?

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by colonelguppy+February 22, 2007 08:56 pm--> (colonelguppy @ February 22, 2007 08:56 pm)
Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 02:24 pm
I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.
um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you. [/b]
They still are using Keynesian economics actually. Just in more right wing guises. High military spending is done at least partly to keep the flow of money through the economy stable (for all the good it will do in the long run) and they still ploay about with the interest rates in a Keynesian manner (monetarism having failed).

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Demogorgon+February 22, 2007 04:37 pm--> (Demogorgon @ February 22, 2007 04:37 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:56 pm

Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 02:24 pm
I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.
um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.
They still are using Keynesian economics actually. Just in more right wing guises. High military spending is done at least partly to keep the flow of money through the economy stable (for all the good it will do in the long run) and they still ploay about with the interest rates in a Keynesian manner (monetarism having failed). [/b]
elements still exist yes, but the trend as of late has been more neo-liberal. as for monetary policy, i would agree and would strongly recomend our governments to give that bullshit up.

regardless of what we do now, i don't know what that has to do with what would theoretically work.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by colonelguppy+February 22, 2007 09:40 pm--> (colonelguppy @ February 22, 2007 09:40 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 04:37 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:56 pm

Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 02:24 pm
I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.
um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.
They still are using Keynesian economics actually. Just in more right wing guises. High military spending is done at least partly to keep the flow of money through the economy stable (for all the good it will do in the long run) and they still ploay about with the interest rates in a Keynesian manner (monetarism having failed).
elements still exist yes, but the trend as of late has been more neo-liberal. as for monetary policy, i would agree and would strongly recomend our governments to give that bullshit up. [/b]
Yes, it is neo-Liberal in many respects, but we are still a loing way away from pre-depression economics.

Something I particularly notice in America though, that I am sure you will have noticed too, is that despite neo-Liberal talk from the government (and accompanying tax cuts) spending doesn't actually fall that much. That is obviously a Keynesian influence at play. It will be pretty disastrous in the long term as well.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Demogorgon+February 22, 2007 04:50 pm--> (Demogorgon @ February 22, 2007 04:50 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 09:40 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 04:37 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:56 pm

Leo [email protected] 22, 2007 02:24 pm
I love it when capitalists make it absolutely clear that they have no idea about capitalism at all.

Keynesian model is a requirement by the capitalist system in decay and it is required everywhere. Hence, real capitalist economics of the 20th century are Keynesian economics everywhere. We don't live in 1700s; the "invisible hand" doesn't create "equilibriums" anymore.
um yeah the last 30 years completely disagree with you.
They still are using Keynesian economics actually. Just in more right wing guises. High military spending is done at least partly to keep the flow of money through the economy stable (for all the good it will do in the long run) and they still ploay about with the interest rates in a Keynesian manner (monetarism having failed).
elements still exist yes, but the trend as of late has been more neo-liberal. as for monetary policy, i would agree and would strongly recomend our governments to give that bullshit up.
Yes, it is neo-Liberal in many respects, but we are still a loing way away from pre-depression economics.

Something I particularly notice in America though, that I am sure you will have noticed too, is that despite neo-Liberal talk from the government (and accompanying tax cuts) spending doesn't actually fall that much. That is obviously a Keynesian influence at play. It will be pretty disastrous in the long term as well. [/b]
it's the most important issue in my opinion, of course it's never politicised so no one cares. if anyhting will be the end of us (the US that is), it will be this. as for global capitalism, that's a different story.