Cuban Doctors Defect In Venezuela

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Socialism is supposed to be humanity advancing into the future, whereas with Cuba, it is clear that it is not socialist as these doctors, overworked, and underpaid, have joined the over 1 million Cubans who have defected since the petty bourgois revolution of Fidel Castro and the other upper middle class persons that made up his bureacratic revolution.

Here is the story:

Cuban doctors awaiting U.S. response

Fri Feb 2, 8:05 PM ET



BOGOTA, Colombia - At least 38 Cuban doctors who defected from a mission in Venezuela have been stranded for months in Colombia, where they have been refused refugee status as they await word on possible asylum in the United States, according to a relief organization.

The doctors find themselves here despite a shift in U.S. policy, announced in August, that allowed Cuban medical personnel working abroad to come to the United States once they passed routine background checks.

Most of the defecting doctors who fled to Colombia have been waiting as long as six months for a response, according to an advocacy group in Miami and several doctors who spoke to The Associated Press. At least two have been rejected by U.S. officials.

Jorge Toledo, a 39-year-old physician, and his wife, ophthalmologist Leticia Viamonte, were told in a Dec. 27 letter that their request to enter the United States under the Cuban Medical Professional Parole program was denied. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter. The decision cannot be appealed.

Joanna Gonzalez, a Homeland Security spokeswoman in Washington, declined to comment on the Cuban doctors. But she said that any applicants under the program "must pass a background check," like others seeking to enter the United States. The U.S. Embassy in Bogota declined commeting on specific asylum cases.

Colombia's Foreign Ministry said the government has not decided whether to grant refugee status to Cuban doctors who have applied for asylum here in recent years. The ministry said there were 45 such cases.

Julio Cesar Alfonso, president of the Miami-based relief organization Solidarity Without Borders, said his three-year-old organization has provided economic and legal assistance to 38 Cuban doctors trying to leave Colombia. He estimates the overall number of doctors who have defected and are living here could exceed 100.

"There's no explanation for the delay — these applications should've taken a maximum two or three months," said Alfonso, a Cuban-trained physician who immigrated to the United States seven years ago.

Cuban officials last year said they had 31,000 doctors serving in humanitarian missions in 68 countries around the world — a major point of pride for the communist nation.

They said more than 20,000 are on loan to Venezuela and another 1,700 are based in Bolivia, whose leftist President Evo Morales is a frequent visitor to Havana.

More than 500 doctors are believed to have fled the two missions in recent years, most in Venezuela, Alfonso said.

Like Toledo and Viamonte, most asylum-seeking Cuban doctors are just scraping by because they are unable to work in Colombia without refugee status.

The couple said they applied for refugee status at the U.S. Embassy on Aug. 11, the same day the new program was announced in Washington. Only one of the seven other doctors who applied that same day has so far been granted entry to the U.S., they said.

Toledo and Viamonte said they sneaked into Colombia in December 2005. Cuban authorities assigned them to Venezuela in mid-2003.

Like other Cuban doctors here, Toledo and Viamonte live in fear of being deported to Cuba.

So far, Alfonso said, Colombia's government — Washington's closest ally in Latin America — has granted Cuban doctors who defect safe-conduct passes that are renewable every three months.

Toledo fought back tears and anger as he described his disappointment at being rejected from the refugee program.

"We didn't ask for this law — we thought it was a miracle when this program was announced because it was so explicit and clear," he said. "Not even for a second did we think we or anyone else would be turned back."

[Hiero]

If only we had more doctors "defecting" from their duties to help the poor and oppressed of the world. That surely will lead to progress.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 03:53 am
If only we had more doctors "defecting" from their duties to help the poor and oppressed of the world. That surely will lead to progress.
it is for "peaceful anarchist" apparently :lol:

[Phalanx]

have joined the over 1 million Cubans who have defected since the petty bourgois revolution of Fidel Castro and the other upper middle class persons that made up his bureacratic revolution.

How progressive of them. Defecting to an imperialist power is leagues better than staying in Cuba. :rolleyes:

[Guerrilla22]

Where is this article from?

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Sure its bad, but as doctors trained in Cuba, they would earn shit loads of money in the U$A.

They are still human, and that's got to be a really difficult position they are in.

If the blockade was to stop, and the capitalist countries werent so hostile, cuba would be able to give its population a better life.

While they are under attack, they are doing pretty darn well.

[manic expression]

So they betray the society that gave them their education?

Make no mistake, they're doing this because they want to make loads of money.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Hmmf, I wonder how much they were paid to make their defection this publicised?

[MarxistFuture]

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 22, 2007 04:33 am
So they betray the society that gave them their education?

Make no mistake, they're doing this because they want to make loads of money.
Exactly. This is done for financial gain, and they have taken advantage of Cuba's goodwill in sending doctors and medical assistance to other less-developed countries in Latin America.

Of course, there is always the possibility that they will be sent back to Cuba.

The topic creator has a problem with Cuba, it seems. "Peaceful Anarchist" is surely a contradiction in terms, unless you believe the power-holders will one day wake up and hand power over, or maybe believe power can be obtained vie a ballot box.

[Raúl Duke]

What if these Cuban Doctors were actually ordered to "defect" so they can be like a sleeper cell, spies, etc or something? :ph34r:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

And the percentage of Cuban volunteer doctors that have defected is..... negligible.

Out of the tens of thousands of Cuban volunteer doctors working all over the world, a few defect, fully encouraged by the imperialists; and that becomes a major news story. Of course the same news sources never talk about the rest of the tens of thousands of volunteer doctors working in Africa, South America, South Asia, etc. That's not "news worthy" to the bourgeios press.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I've met Cuban doctors who were here in Pakistan in hundreds, to help our people during the 2005 Earthquake.

They didn't seem very interested in defecting.

[Guerrilla22]

The press in the US will do a story about a couple of Cuban doctors defecting (presuming this even happened) and throw it on the front page, all the meanwhile completely ignoring doing any stories about the hundreds of US soldiers who have fled to Canada to avoid being sent back to Iraq.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 03:48 am
these doctors, overworked, and underpaid,
Overworked, underpaid...

... and gusanos.

Luís Henrique

[Whitten]

Educated professionals earning a workers wage in Cuba defect to the US where they can earn six figures sums for less honest work...

Dont blame Cuba, blame greed.

[FOREVER LEFT]

With all the propaganda the U.S. is transmitting to Cuba and Venezuela along with all the AmeriKKKan movies in circulation around the world----I mean is it all a surprise?

It's a surprise that all the Cuban doctors have not defected given the conditions they labor under and all the propaganda that exists to dissuade them from pursuing the socialist path.

[UndergroundConnexion]

wow amazing, these people were in venezuala to help sick people and now they deffect to USA&#33; that&#39;s great <_<

[BuyOurEverything]

And the percentage of Cuban volunteer doctors that have defected is..... negligible.

Out of the tens of thousands of Cuban volunteer doctors working all over the world, a few defect, fully encouraged by the imperialists; and that becomes a major news story. Of course the same news sources never talk about the rest of the tens of thousands of volunteer doctors working in Africa, South America, South Asia, etc. That&#39;s not "news worthy" to the bourgeios press.


Exactly. Compare this number of doctors "defecting" from Cuba to the number of people of any profession from any other country who emigrate for economic reasons. When people leave Cuba, they&#39;re "defecting" from "communism" or "Castro&#39;s regime," but when people leave any other poorer country for a richer one for the same reason (economic oppertunity), it&#39;s a whole other story. Look at how many doctor&#39;s "defect" from the rest of Latin America, Eastern Europe, hell even Western Europe every day for the US. Frankly I would be shocked if no doctors ever tried to leave Cuba.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:43 pm

And the percentage of Cuban volunteer doctors that have defected is..... negligible.

Out of the tens of thousands of Cuban volunteer doctors working all over the world, a few defect, fully encouraged by the imperialists; and that becomes a major news story. Of course the same news sources never talk about the rest of the tens of thousands of volunteer doctors working in Africa, South America, South Asia, etc. That&#39;s not "news worthy" to the bourgeios press.


Exactly. Compare this number of doctors "defecting" from Cuba to the number of people of any profession from any other country who emigrate for economic reasons. When people leave Cuba, they&#39;re "defecting" from "communism" or "Castro&#39;s regime," but when people leave any other poorer country for a richer one for the same reason (economic oppertunity), it&#39;s a whole other story. Look at how many doctor&#39;s "defect" from the rest of Latin America, Eastern Europe, hell even Western Europe every day for the US. Frankly I would be shocked if no doctors ever tried to leave Cuba.
But the point is, that if Cuba really is a "socialist" system it should be BETTER, much BETTER than the crappy capitalist regimes of Europe, Latin America etc.

Isn&#39;t socialism supposed to be progress? Humanity moving forward? So why would anyone want to go back to the old capitalist ways? Yet over a million have since the revolution and millions more would if given the opportunity. What does that say about Castro&#39;s regime?

Also, don&#39;t forget all the pressures that Castro puts on his people NOT to emigrate, brashinwashing since you were little does have its effect.

My point is that Cuba is NOT real socialist but in fact Stalinist/petty bourgeois. It is a government of bureacracy not of people&#39;s power.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by AlwaysAnarchy+February 22, 2007 06:28 pm--> (AlwaysAnarchy @ February 22, 2007 06:28 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 05:43 pm

And the percentage of Cuban volunteer doctors that have defected is..... negligible.

Out of the tens of thousands of Cuban volunteer doctors working all over the world, a few defect, fully encouraged by the imperialists; and that becomes a major news story. Of course the same news sources never talk about the rest of the tens of thousands of volunteer doctors working in Africa, South America, South Asia, etc. That&#39;s not "news worthy" to the bourgeios press.


Exactly. Compare this number of doctors "defecting" from Cuba to the number of people of any profession from any other country who emigrate for economic reasons. When people leave Cuba, they&#39;re "defecting" from "communism" or "Castro&#39;s regime," but when people leave any other poorer country for a richer one for the same reason (economic oppertunity), it&#39;s a whole other story. Look at how many doctor&#39;s "defect" from the rest of Latin America, Eastern Europe, hell even Western Europe every day for the US. Frankly I would be shocked if no doctors ever tried to leave Cuba.
But the point is, that if Cuba really is a "socialist" system it should be BETTER, much BETTER than the crappy capitalist regimes of Europe, Latin America etc.

Isn&#39;t socialism supposed to be progress? Humanity moving forward? So why would anyone want to go back to the old capitalist ways? Yet over a million have since the revolution and millions more would if given the opportunity. What does that say about Castro&#39;s regime?

Also, don&#39;t forget all the pressures that Castro puts on his people NOT to emigrate, brashinwashing since you were little does have its effect.

My point is that Cuba is NOT real socialist but in fact Stalinist/petty bourgeois. It is a government of bureacracy not of people&#39;s power. [/b]
Posts like these make my head hurt. Please stop writing these things, I hate bleeding from my ears each time I read your ill-informed and ill-advised points.

Anyway, the fact is that Cuba is better than practically any society in Latin America by every measure, and can compete with the first world when it comes to healthcare, literacy, etc.... In fact, when taking into account size, resources and available opportunities for trade, Cuba is BY FAR the most impressive country on earth.

What "crappy regimes of Europe, Latin America etc." are you talking about? Do you have ANY idea what you&#39;re trying to say? Cuba is better than all of Latin America, without a doubt. The western (read: white) world is bested by Cuba in many regards, EVEN WITH their perpetual exploitation of the third world.

So if a single person leaves a socialist society, it is automatically "Stalinist/petty bourgeois" (that doesn&#39;t even make sense)? Get a clue. People are leaving Cuba because they want more money; not many are leaving Cuba anyway. A million counterrevolutionaries are hardly something any revolutionary should care about. And no, most people in Cuba now want to stay (but don&#39;t let that stop you from spouting imperialist-promoted BS).

Castro facilitated the emigration of anyone who wanted to leave (the Mariana Boatlift in the 80&#39;s was one example, I think that&#39;s the name anyway). How the hell is that brainwashing?

No, you really don&#39;t have a point. Go back and read the countless refutations of your poor arguments before making the same ridiculous claims.

[Cheung Mo]

And before you rant about Cuba, consider who you&#39;re defending: I&#39;m not even American (Canada&#33;&#33; :D) and even I know how much capitalistic and nationalistic brainwashing occurs in the U.S. education system. (And the Reactionary Majority throws temper tantrums at liberal organisations like the ACLU or the PFAW for even daring to challenge the 5 - 10% of the most blatant examples of this reactionary propaganda.)

Americans are so brainwashed that they consider enclaves of social democracy (i.e. Burlington, San Francisco Bay Area, Missoula, Greenwich Village etc..) to be alien.

I bet they&#39;d lose their minds in Amsterdam, in Bologna, or even in Vancuover.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 09:12 am
Educated professionals earning a workers wage in Cuba defect to the US where they can earn six figures sums for less honest work...

Dont blame Cuba, blame greed.
LOL @ greed.

I hate it when leftists accuse others of being "greedy." What is greed anyways? Is it wanting the most for yourself, isn&#39;t that what a proletarian revolution is partly based upon? It&#39;s a bunch of "greedy" workers who want their share in the means of production.

Don&#39;t blame Cuba, blame materialism ;)

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 06:28 pm
But the point is, that if Cuba really is a "socialist" system it should be BETTER, much BETTER than the crappy capitalist regimes of Europe, Latin America etc.
Better for whom?


Isn&#39;t socialism supposed to be progress? Humanity moving forward? So why would anyone want to go back to the old capitalist ways? Yet over a million have since the revolution and millions more would if given the opportunity.

And capitalism was progress, humanity moving forward, compared to feudalism. Wonder how many people left France, fleeing the French Revolution to go back to the old feudal ways?


What does that say about Castro&#39;s regime?

Not much, I fear. It says a lot more about the historical conditions of the third world.


Also, don&#39;t forget all the pressures that Castro puts on his people NOT to emigrate, brashinwashing since you were little does have its effect.

In this, he may well be doing a favour to them.

When Cubans emmigrate, they are welcomed by the US as freedom fighters. When Mexicans emmigrate, they are driven away point-gun, if possible (this probably tells more about the Castro regime: it produces people that the US are willing to take as citizens - which no other regime in Latin America is able to do).

Heck, yesterday American police arrested about 40 Brazilians for the "crime" of trying to enter the US. If they were Cuban, they would be now being interviewed by the press about their "heroic" scape.


My point is that Cuba is NOT real socialist but in fact Stalinist/petty bourgeois. It is a government of bureacracy not of people&#39;s power.

Quite probably. But you are trying to do this in direct collusion with American imperialism.

Luís Henrique

[Guerrilla22]

But the point is, that if Cuba really is a "socialist" system it should be BETTER, much BETTER than the crappy capitalist regimes of Europe, Latin America etc.

Name one country in Latin America that has a better overall standard of living than Cuba, you can&#39;t because no such country exist.


Isn&#39;t socialism supposed to be progress? Humanity moving forward? So why would anyone want to go back to the old capitalist ways? Yet over a million have since the revolution and millions more would if given the opportunity. What does that say about Castro&#39;s regime?

Cuba hasn&#39;t made any progress under Castro? You must be delusional. Moost of the people who left Cuba were the elite class, who left on their own accord because the y refuse to live in a manner that would benefit all the people of Cuba, not just their elite circle. Sure others have left, but Cuba, but then again millions from Western Europe have moved to the US too, so I&#39;m not sure what your point is. As for the Cuban people wanting capitalism, I really don&#39;t think you&#39;r ein a position to speak for the Cuban people.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Moost of the people who left Cuba were the elite class

That&#39;s in the early years.

Now it is for economic and medical reasons and because of family relations, mostly.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 07:28 pm
Isn&#39;t socialism supposed to be progress? Humanity moving forward? So why would anyone want to go back to the old capitalist ways? Yet over a million have since the revolution and millions more would if given the opportunity. What does that say about Castro&#39;s regime?
You really don&#39;t look any further than the length of your nose, do you? Tell you what, here is something you won&#39;t find on Wikipedia: Cubans are allowed to emigrate if they go through the proper channels like everyone else. However, the US actually blocks these channels. Instead, Cubans who manage to patch up a little boat and end up on the shores of Miami with their feet dry are immediately allowed to stay&#33;

Maybe that sheds some light. If only they gave that kind of privilege to the Mexicans who have to make a mad dash across the border while avoiding Minutemen. As for your appeal to emotion in the part quoted above: you&#39;re an idiot. You can&#39;t see that a fairly isolated island nation, suffering from the embargo and the presence of the world&#39;s #1 imperialist nation 90 miles away, might have "some problems" that include people leaving(you claim a million - except that it&#39;s over the course of 50 years, dipshit. I can make any place look like a dystopia that way).

In other words, you expect Fidel to use magic to change all the actual conditions in the world, because you should be restricted like the idealist liberal that you are. Get off my internets.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 02:12 pm
Educated professionals earning a workers wage in Cuba defect to the US where they can earn six figures sums for less honest work...

Dont blame Cuba, blame greed.
Ohhh no they wont get six-figures.
US Gov will say they aren&#39;t qualified enough-- which will leave them to be working as doctors underneath the table.

Then they risk getting sent to jail for practicing medicine without a liscense.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Originally posted by FoB+February 22, 2007 03:30 pm--> (FoB @ February 22, 2007 03:30 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 09:12 am
Educated professionals earning a workers wage in Cuba defect to the US where they can earn six figures sums for less honest work...

Dont blame Cuba, blame greed.
LOL @ greed.

I hate it when leftists accuse others of being "greedy." What is greed anyways? Is it wanting the most for yourself, isn&#39;t that what a proletarian revolution is partly based upon? It&#39;s a bunch of "greedy" workers who want their share in the means of production.

Don&#39;t blame Cuba, blame materialism ;) [/b]
Greed is taking an excessively bigger share of the world&#39;s wealth than a person needs or "deserves," depriving someone else of the same standards. Greed is individualism that ignores the welfare of others. Communism is anti-greed because it eliminates capitalism, which is really the basis of greed in today&#39;s world.

Workers are greedy? Communists are greedy? To say that, would imply that the bourgeoisie is somehow entitled to be above us. Why should we blame materialism? What&#39;s the alternative to this blameworthy materialism? Spirituality? :huh:

These gusanos are scum, but as has already been mentioned, they are a tiny minority among Cuban doctors.

[R_P_A_S]

Maniac Expression :)
Cheung Mo :lol:
Luís Henrique :)
Ronnie James Dio ;)

right on fellazz&#33;&#33;&#33;

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO+February 23, 2007 04:07 am--> (EL KABLAMO @ February 23, 2007 04:07 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 02:12 pm
Educated professionals earning a workers wage in Cuba defect to the US where they can earn six figures sums for less honest work...

Dont blame Cuba, blame greed.
Ohhh no they wont get six-figures.
US Gov will say they aren&#39;t qualified enough-- which will leave them to be working as doctors underneath the table.

Then they risk getting sent to jail for practicing medicine without a liscense. [/b]
That&#39;s true, but the US still presents them with the image that if they defect to the US they will be given a six-figure job.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

I don&#39;t get it. If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??

I doubt we can call them greedy for wanting a life and a lifestyle that most of us here seem to be enjoying (ie living a fairly good life in a advanced Western country)

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 08:02 pm
I don&#39;t get it. If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??

I doubt we can call them greedy for wanting a life and a lifestyle that most of us here seem to be enjoying (ie living a fairly good life in a advanced Western country)
hows that crow taste?

[southernmissfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 08:02 pm
I don&#39;t get it. If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??

I doubt we can call them greedy for wanting a life and a lifestyle that most of us here seem to be enjoying (ie living a fairly good life in a advanced Western country)
I think they are saying that some will be tempted to leave to first-world, capitalist countries. Just as many people in all countries emigrate, hoping or thinking they will have a "better life" (or in this case, get rich). This is by no means unique to Cuba.

At the end of the day, Cuba is still a third-world country so to speak. But it&#39;s a hell of a lot better than most, and as others have mentioned, you&#39;ll be hard pressed to find another Latin American country that can compare in literacy, healthcare, education, etc. This doesn&#39;t mean Cuba is genuinely socialist, just that something is obviously working, at least compared to various shitholes in the developing world.

Obviously not all trained professionals will leave, or even want to leave. And again, this is situation comparable to all countries, and is not unique to Cuba. And the reasons are, for the most part, pretty similar. Family, a sense of home, being content and happy with how they are, etc. And I&#39;m sure most of them, besides the previous factors, probably aren&#39;t fooled by American propaganda.

Really, I don&#39;t see how a couple doctors "defecting" is indicative of anything. It&#39;d be different if there were masses of "refugees" fleeing, but this isn&#39;t the case. Regardless of what the media likes to portray, the numbers don&#39;t back them up.

[RNK]

If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??

There will always be a small minority who feel that personal wealth is more important than duty to their fellow man, even in the most socialist of countries...

Anyway, yes, it sounds bad that so many Doctors leave Cuba, but let&#39;s compare it with another country -- Canada for example (where I live). Every year, hundreds of medical professionals, and thousands of skilled professionals in other fields, "defect" from Canada to live and work in the United States where they can easily make twice as much money as they do here, if not more. And Canada is by no means a poor country. So don&#39;t look too deeply into the urge some people feel to hoarde wealth and pursue personal gain.

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 10:33 pm

If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??

There will always be a small minority who feel that personal wealth is more important than duty to their fellow man, even in the most socialist of countries...

Anyway, yes, it sounds bad that so many Doctors leave Cuba, but let&#39;s compare it with another country -- Canada for example (where I live). Every year, hundreds of medical professionals, and thousands of skilled professionals in other fields, "defect" from Canada to live and work in the United States where they can easily make twice as much money as they do here, if not more. And Canada is by no means a poor country. So don&#39;t look too deeply into the urge some people feel to hoarde wealth and pursue personal gain.
Well put.

I think you and others have hit the nail on the head here: Cuba, being a 3rd world country, will never be able to offer its workers as much money as large 1st world countries like the US , which has a huge number of resources and a much larger GDP can. Even under the most perfect of governments and the greatest of economic systems Cuba would not be able to compete with US salaries. It has nothing to do with socialism really; the fact that Cuba is sending its doctors all over the world in poor areas to do critical medical work should be the big story here, not that a small minority have decided to flee to the US where they can earn more money, which is fairly common in even first-world countries.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Look I don&#39;t understand why people make such a big deal of this.

Here in Pakistan, which is a third-world country like Cuba, just about every doctor or engineer is looking for ways and means to emigrate to the US or some other First World country, and use their skills to earn much more money than they can make here.

It doesn&#39;t make them evil, and this "greed" is perfectly understandable.

It has nothing to do with "repression" in Cuba, as some of the ultra-leftists would like to portray it.

[Guerrilla22]

Cuba is not a third world country&#33; Using the term "third world" is incorrect anyways. It amazes me that even on a leftist web site people still are refering to Cuba as such.

[southernmissfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 05:48 am
Cuba is not a third world country&#33; Using the term "third world" is incorrect anyways. It amazes me that even on a leftist web site people still are refering to Cuba as such.
Technically, third world is incorrect as it is a Cold War term referring to those nations not allying with either the West (first world) or "communist" bloc (second world). But the term has become a synonym for underdeveloped or developing nations.

[Vargha Poralli]

I doubt we can call them greedy for wanting a life and a lifestyle that most of us here seem to be enjoying (ie living a fairly good life in a advanced Western country)


Are you showing your true colours. BTW who is WE. I live in 3rd world country and my whole life is shit. So does the life of thousands of Mexicans who try to cross the border and come to USA. Why the fuck did they who want the lifestyle that YOU seem to be enjoying(ie living fairly good life in a advanced western country)are treated such badly. Would your democratic friends would welcome me like Cuban doctors.So stop generalising.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 08:02 pm
I don&#39;t get it. If what you guys are saying is true, that doctors will want to go to capitalist countries where they could make more money, then where is the incentive for highly trained people like doctors, lawyers etc to stay ??
You can also have the Brazilian solution: pay highly trained people an "European" wage, so that they don&#39;t move abroad, in a country were common workers get "African" wages.

Do you like it better?


I doubt we can call them greedy for wanting a life and a lifestyle that most of us here seem to be enjoying (ie living a fairly good life in a advanced Western country)

My education was paid for by the poor people of my country, peasants, janitors, housemaids, welders, etc. If I went abroad to use my educated talents for the benefit of others, I would have to consider myself a thief, and a thief of the worst kind, who takes from the poor to give to the wealthy.

Luís Henrique

[Tekun]

My education was paid for by the poor people of my country, peasants, janitors, housemaids, welders, etc. If I went abroad to use my educated talents for the benefit of others, I would have to consider myself a thief, and a thief of the worst kind, who takes from the poor to give to the wealthy.


Well said bro