Whos The Biggest In The Us?

[AmerGuerilla]

Whats the biggest party/movement/organization thats self proclaimed socialist or communist? Guesstimate if you have to but any numbers would be great even though i doubt anyone can find anything reliable.

[BreadBros]

If the only stipulation is that its self-proclaimed then that honor would probably go to the Chinese Communist Party. Of course, despite its self-proclamations, it is neither Communist/socialist nor is it really much of a political party (more like an governmental organization/appartus).

Edit: Sorry, I just saw that you said IN THE US. My bad. In that case Im not sure really, but the Revolutionary Communist Party, a Maoist group, would probably be one of the main contenders.

[manic expression]

In terms of numbers, the Socialist Party and the CPUSA IIRC.

However, both are reformist. The RCP is very active, although that doesn't necessarily mean that it's big.

[redcannon]

the problem with finding large commie or socialist parties is that there are so many differnet types of communists. The largest one, as it has been said, is Maoist, but that doesn't do much for the Marxists, or the Leninists, or the Stalinists , or the Libertarian Communists, or what have you.

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:09 pm
the problem with finding large commie or socialist parties is that there are so many differnet types of communists. The largest one, as it has been said, is Maoist, but that doesn't do much for the Marxists, or the Leninists, or the Stalinists , or the Libertarian Communists, or what have you.
As for libertarians, since we do things in a decentralized manner, it's impossible to quantify us according to party politics. There might be more Libertarians than Leninists for all we know, but there's no way of finding out (which is a good thing IMO).

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by CDL
The SWP has around 200.

RCP has around 200.

Really? Is that accurate? For the whole US? :unsure:

Why are they so small?

We can organise that many anarchists in oz (let alone the socialist groups)... and the population here is many times smaller than that of the US, like 20 million vs. 300 million... i just always assumed the organised left was much much bigger in the US...

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 22, 2007 12:49 am
Yeah it's accurate. And having dedicated cadres in a group based around democratic centralism is alot different than getting a bunch of people who call themselves anarchists together.
Except that co-ordinating say, the membership of 2-3 syd anarcho collectives would equal roughly a quarter of the SWP/RCPs national membership :wacko: Dismissing a group of people simply because they organise as a network of affinity groups rather than a centralised party is pretty silly.

[BreadBros]

I dont doubt at all that the SWP only has 200 dedicated members. It isn't really much of a presence as far as I've seen and being a cadre seems to entail quite a bit. However, I have a VERY hard time beleiving that the RCP only has 200 cadre. I would estimate that they easily have that many in the Northeastern US alone, let alone the rest of the country. I think they are at least 1,000, possibly up to 2,000. Thats not even counting the huge influence they have over World Cant Wait, Refuse and Resist, Not in Our Name, etc, etc. The ISO is also pretty big, probably like 1,000 members? That page seems to be a bit out of date in general. For example, the Progressive Labor Party has had a rather large expansion of members in the past few years. On the other hand other groups like Left Turn have pretty much "died out" in terms of activity outside of publication.

[which doctor]

The SDS has a decent presence on college campuses with 245 chapters and growing.

The IWW also has a few hundred members in the US I believe.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 01:26 am
The SDS has a decent presence on college campuses with 245 chapters and growing.

The IWW also has a few hundred members in the US I believe.
Well, those SDS chapters aren't all active or even existent (some "chapters" can consist of one person). However, SDS is a growing presence on campuses.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by manic expression+February 21, 2007 09:17 pm--> (manic expression @ February 21, 2007 09:17 pm)
[email protected] 22, 2007 01:26 am
The SDS has a decent presence on college campuses with 245 chapters and growing.

The IWW also has a few hundred members in the US I believe.
Well, those SDS chapters aren't all active or even existent (some "chapters" can consist of one person). However, SDS is a growing presence on campuses. [/b]
I understand, but there are some very active chapters with several dozen or so members. There are also a lot on inactive members. Still, I bet SDS has several hundred members who are active.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by FoB+February 22, 2007 02:28 am--> (FoB @ February 22, 2007 02:28 am)
Originally posted by manic [email protected] 21, 2007 09:17 pm

[email protected] 22, 2007 01:26 am
The SDS has a decent presence on college campuses with 245 chapters and growing.

The IWW also has a few hundred members in the US I believe.
Well, those SDS chapters aren't all active or even existent (some "chapters" can consist of one person). However, SDS is a growing presence on campuses.
I understand, but there are some very active chapters with several dozen or so members. There are also a lot on inactive members. Still, I bet SDS has several hundred members who are active. [/b]
Yes, you are definitely right about that. I wasn't trying to say that SDS isn't active, because it is active.

To be honest, I don't get a very optimistic feeling from this thread. Maybe it's just me.

[BreadBros]

The ISO has 1,000 paper members, many not even in good standing. And almost all of them are university students. "Joining" for these folks entails signing a piece of paper.

True.


The RCP doesn't have 1,000 cadres, not even close. I'm not sure what your estimate is based on, but it's wrong. Again, this is cadres, not supporters or people who sell papers here and there.

I'm basing this entirely on my personal observation. Unscientific? I know. Nonetheless, having attended meetings of various leftist groups in the past I can say that on average the RCP branches I've encountered always seem way larger and more prevalent than most other groups. In particular the local RCP grouping near me has expanded quiet a bit in the past year. I guess you could argue that not all of these individuals are full cadre, however, even taking that into account I still have a hard time believing the RCP only has 200 members. Keep in mind I am by no means an RCP supporter or anything (quite the opposite), Im just sharing my experience.


The SWP has just as much a presence as the RCP.. even more of one among workers. I'm not sure if you're talking about presence on campuses or what. SWPers hang out at factory gates and sell papers to workers on shift changes, the RCP doesn't do that sort of thing.

Thats probably true, I wouldn't really know, I don't spend much time around industrial workplaces (although both of my parents and several of my other family members do, and theyve never encountered the SWP, for whats it worth). That doesn't necessarily translate to higher membership nor greater influence. Just that they're approaching recruitment from a different angle.


The SWP also gets alot of exposure through it's electoral campaigns. The RCP has its front groups, but they're not as big as people here seem to think. WCW, for example, only brought out 1,000-2,000 people at it's first few events (in NYC and DC), even though it spent thousands of dollars building for them.

Somewhat true, although I would debate how much exposure the electoral campaigns have actually gotten. In 2004 the SWP got a vote of ~11,000. How many of those 11,000 actually know what the SWP is about? I think the various RCP front groups have probably "touched" just as many people. Its impossible for us to quantify it, I'm just speaking from my own experience.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

wtf are you talking about. That source is bull. It says the RCYB has 50 members nationwide which is bull because the New York Branch would have like half or something.

I doubt that source counts the supporters the RCP has which put it over the CPUSA most likely. I for example, am just a supporter but I attend just about every event and am very active in the party's activities. Most supporters are like this. I would say the RCP is more of a supporter based organization which makes that link quite misleading.

In any case. The CPUSA and SWP are not communist groups the CPUSA are liberal democrats while SWP are democratic socialist at best and spent most of their funds on campaigning.


SWPers hang out at factory gates and sell papers to workers on shift changes, the RCP doesn't do that sort of thing.

On the contrary, it does. It was one of the only groups to be at the Smithfield strike and are regularly selling papers in proletarian neighborhoods.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

oh yeah and MIM are a few guys in a basement. There's no way they're 100 members. I don't think your source is that reliable. It's also pretty misleading.

[RGacky3]

I think the IWW has over 2000 members, and in many of the shops they organize only a couple of workers are card carriers.

[Guerrilla22]

They also have a presence in Ann Arbor, Michigan

Of course they do, Ann Arbor is a town of nothing but upper and upper middle class liberals, where the medium income is 80,000 a year and home to elite university full of rich kids. Fuck that town and fuck MIM too.

[TC]

Realistically in terms of cadre it would be safe to assume that the WWP and RCP are probably the two largest (WWP only lost part of three branchs). In terms of non-cadre members probably the CPUSA and SPUSA.

Any reasonable comparison of the WWP in terms of numbers to less militant and diciplined organizations needs to take into account the fact that the WWP counts people as "members" after they've gone through a year of candidate membership after several years in its front groups and then only if they are essentially full time members. The CPUSA counts anyone whose signed up to their website. If WWP membership was counted as IAC, FIST, and PFP membership it would be by far the largest socialist organization in the united states.

[Jesus Christ!]

I live in the US and I didn't realize these groups were that un-populated. :blink:

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 22, 2007 12:14 pm
Where does is say that? It doesn't.

I had seen that source except for youth groups before but I can't find it now.


The source is accurate.

You keep saying that, and I think the exact thing you said below


I don't care what you think to be honest. You can think that water is dry and snow hot.. it doesn't make it so.

It just doesn't make it so. Its outdated, why even use it when it leaves out YOUR organization as well as doesn't count supporters which are often the base of parties.


For a while, the main RCYB was in Atlanta, without being anywhere else in any serious way.

yeah well it has branches in most places now


And you should probably chill out with all the boasting, I know for a fact that the RCP doesn't "approve." I once witnessed a person ask a RCYBer how many members the RCP has (in a Revolution Books store), and when he started to respond, he was cut off by an older woman working the counter who said "we don't answer those questions. That's the kind of info the Fed's would love to have."

I wasn't boasting, you just make the RCP look like a couple guys in their moms basement. I'm not giving any specific figures, the figure I did give is a pretty broad umbrella estimate.


No they aren't, and no they don't.

They encourage their members to vote for a candidate which I guess they think will improve shit. Otherwise they wouldn't run the candidates. That's democratic socialism.



Probably a little bit smaller, but they're definitely around there. They put out a thick newspaper on a regular basis. They started on campuses in Mass. several years ago. They also have a presence in Ann Arbor, Michigan and California.

MIM is also a supporter based group. I remember reading that you have to join RAIL to even be considered for membership, but can support the party with translations and artwork or whatever without being a member.

[Leo]

And having dedicated cadres in a group based around democratic centralism is alot different than getting a bunch of people who call themselves anarchists together.

Yeah, they get paid for being "dedicated" cadres...

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Whos the biggest in the US???

I'm 8 1/2 inches myself... :lol:

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 06:41 pm
Whats the biggest party/movement/organization thats self proclaimed socialist or communist? Guesstimate if you have to but any numbers would be great even though i doubt anyone can find anything reliable.
Probably RAAN.

[Enragé]

Party of American Bolsheviks

[AlwaysAnarchy]

:lol: :lol: :lol: l