Newly Posted Videos Of Enver Hoxha

[fogao]

Recently my Albanian friends put in youtube two more videos of comrade Enver Hoxha.


The video of the festivity for the day the martyrs of national liberation war:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxREGvQrRM...related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxREGvQrRM&mode=related&search=)




And the video with one of the last public speeches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alDazjHfi3Y...related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alDazjHfi3Y&mode=related&search=)

[The Author]

Thank you comrade! It’s nice to see these videos are available, as there is little information available on the Internet about socialist Albania. At least these videos offer an insightful portrait into the conditions of the people in Albanian society.

[JKP]

Why is Hoxha getting so much attention as of late?

EDIT: Why is your glorious leader riding in a Mercedes-Benz? That wasn't exactly within reach of any Albanian citizen was it? (or just about any car for that matter!)

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 10:07 pm
Why is Hoxha getting so much attention as of late?
I think it's just the member fogao bringing him up at every possible opportunity

[Prairie Fire]

Hoxhas getting more attention, because more Hoxhaists and Hoxha sympathizers are flocking to the board.

Is hoxha not as deserving of respect as any other socialist leader?

As for the Mercedes comment, I realize that most cars were banned in Albania, and frankly I'm all for it. I can only imagine how much cleaner the air would be, how many kilometers of land would be saved from oil exploration, and how much better shape people would be in if cars were restricted to necesity rather than frivolous individualism. I think that this was the policy in Albania, which is not a rich country to begin with. Rather than in the US, where cars are looked at as a status symbol or a fact of life, In Albania cars were restricted to need. Now Hoxha and other members of the PLA needed cars, as they traveled all over the country.
This is logical, no? Myself, I don't own a car. Every where I go, I walk or take the bus. This is logical, economical and better for the environment. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist state must provide public transportation.
Read up in the communist manifesto, Comrade; Marx makes it very clear that all
means of transportation must be in the hands of the state. Albania was one of the few countries to practice this.

As for Fogao's posts, some people write constant praise of Kropotkin, Some praise Trotsky, some praise Mao and some praise Lenin. Why can't anyone praise Hoxha?
I'm quite happy to have found another commited Hoxhaist on this forum. :)

[chimx]

Maybe Hoxha should learn how to ride a bus like everybody else, instead of dropping tens of thousands on a Mercedes.

This does not belong in the history forum as there is no discussion points. Please post your Hoxha propaganda in the Events and Propaganda forum like everybody else does.

[The Author]

Originally posted by Karl [email protected] Critique of the Gotha Programme
one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only -- for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.

But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby.

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

I would consider this Mercedes Benz phenomenon as one of those "defects" which Marx refers to. Of course there will be class contradictions under socialism.

But still, compare Albania in the socialist period where there were almost no cars and people had social welfare and democratic rights in antithesis to current-day Albania. In the latter case, the streets of Tirana are filled with cars, but also poverty, unemployment, prostitution, and all of those social woes and lack of democratic freedoms are the norm as well. Who drives and does not drive a car appears to be a minor issue. And this applies not only in Albania, but in all socialist countries.

One also needs to take into account that in the socialist countries, everything you needed was/is located in walking distance or public transport access to stores and cultural and recreational facilities. Central urban planning was the norm, so one did not need a car to travel around the city or really so much the countryside.

[Prairie Fire]

Maybe Hoxha should learn how to ride a bus like everybody else, instead of dropping tens of thousands on a Mercedes.

I don't know if he's likely to learn anything, being as he's dead and all.

Riding the bus was an impracticality, as Hoxha had something that a lot of average Albanians didn't: powerful enemies. Even those leaders that are beloved in their country, wether it be Castro in Cuba, lenin in the USSR... these men rarely took un-nescesary risks to prove some sort of bullshit point that they were just like everyone else. When I was in Venezuela, I saw Hugo chavez at a large outdoor gathering. now, despite the fact that the crowd was filled with his supporters, and he is beloved by the people, there were snipers on every rooftop around him. This is a reality of being a head of state: If you poke your head out, someone may take a shot at it.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Even those leaders that are beloved in their country, wether it be Castro in Cuba, lenin in the USSR... these men rarely took un-nescesary risks to prove some sort of bullshit point that they were just like everyone else.

Precisely.

I don't see how it makes a difference if Comrade Hoxha rides around in a bus rather than a car.

As scientific socialists, we aim to end class privileges and Comrade Hoxha wasn't exactly enjoying a class privilege when he travelled around the country on a car, even if its a Mercedes.

It's a practical necessity, get over it.

[BreadBros]

Is hoxha not as deserving of respect as any other socialist leader?

In case you haven't noticed, there is quite considerable debate over most historical "socialist leaders" on the board. While some of them may have done good shit (modernizing nations, promoting progressive laws) this doesnt obscure the fact that they had glaring faults and were not actually socialist at all. One neutral piece of constructive criticism for any Hoxhaites though: maybe you should do more to tell us about Hoxha, where he fit into in the 20th century history of socialism and what differentiates him from other leaders. Most people here are rather new to Marxism and the left and much of our discussion centers around USSR and PRC, so you arent attracting very many followers by simply posting videos and expecting everyone to see the significance!


As for the Mercedes comment, I realize that most cars were banned in Albania, and frankly I'm all for it. I can only imagine how much cleaner the air would be, how many kilometers of land would be saved from oil exploration, and how much better shape people would be in if cars were restricted to necesity rather than frivolous individualism. I think that this was the policy in Albania, which is not a rich country to begin with. Rather than in the US, where cars are looked at as a status symbol or a fact of life, In Albania cars were restricted to need. Now Hoxha and other members of the PLA needed cars, as they traveled all over the country.
This is logical, no? Myself, I don't own a car. Every where I go, I walk or take the bus. This is logical, economical and better for the environment. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist state must provide public transportation.
Read up in the communist manifesto, Comrade; Marx makes it very clear that all
means of transportation must be in the hands of the state. Albania was one of the few countries to practice this.

Of course cars have flaws. However, they also have a plethora of benefits! Me, I dont own a car (more an economical decision than a lifestyle one) but I personally believe that a balance of various transportation mediums is most effective. However, thats besides the point, we both know that the decision to ban cars was not an environmental one, it was an economic one. The question is, is that a result of Hoxhas policies, or outside influences? Maybe you can answer that since you likely know more about Albania than I do. The other question is, why did Hoxha and his party cohorts deserve cars (luxury cars at that) while everyone else did not? You're telling me that him travelling around the country was more vital than say, someone transporting and distributing goods? As for the status symbol...yeah, its a status symbol because there are a lot of perks to driving in a car, namely a high degree of freedom. The economic inequalities that persisted in Albania cant be glossed over!


As for Fogao's posts, some people write constant praise of Kropotkin, Some praise Trotsky, some praise Mao and some praise Lenin. Why can't anyone praise Hoxha?
I'm quite happy to have found another commited Hoxhaist on this forum. :)

Theres nothing wrong with praising him...this thread is still up, no? But you shouldnt be surprised if people challenge you on your views, just like they do all the time in the threads on Trotsky, Kropotkin, Mao and Lenin.

[JKP]

As for the Mercedes comment, I realize that most cars were banned in Albania, and frankly I'm all for it.

I'm not.

The "ban the cars" sect within the left is largely irrelevant. Furthermore, why would anyone want to lower their standard of living by giving away cars. Of course we'd all like to see hyper efficient cars and public transport, but banning cars just won't do. (I've been riding the bus daily for the past 8 years BTW.)


I can only imagine how much cleaner the air would be, how many kilometers of land would be saved from oil exploration, and how much better shape people would be in if cars were restricted to necesity rather than frivolous individualism.

Who the fuck are you to decide how people stay in shape? Just because of your fanatical desire to control people according to your own personal beliefs, and your hatred for individual freedom (communism is the ultimate freedom, not the ultimate equality.)? Also, who the fuck are you to decide what people need? Need is subjective, so stop imposing your will onto others.


I think that this was the policy in Albania, which is not a rich country to begin with. Rather than in the US, where cars are looked at as a status symbol or a fact of life, In Albania cars were restricted to need. Now Hoxha and other members of the PLA needed cars, as they traveled all over the country.

Which is why Albania was a shithole of country that made even the Soviet Union look like a worker's paradise! If being "anti-revisionist" means being like Albania, then please, bring on all the Khrushchevs you got!


This is logical, no? Myself, I don't own a car. Every where I go, I walk or take the bus. This is logical, economical and better for the environment. Of course, it goes without saying that any socialist state must provide public transportation.
Read up in the communist manifesto, Comrade; Marx makes it very clear that all
means of transportation must be in the hands of the state. Albania was one of the few countries to practice this.

Except that cars came a bit after Marx's time, and thus he had nothing to say about that?


As for Fogao's posts, some people write constant praise of Kropotkin, Some praise Trotsky, some praise Mao and some praise Lenin. Why can't anyone praise Hoxha?

Because unlike Hoxha, Lenin and Mao actually modernized and developed their countries, while Albania remained a backward agrarian state (even though your dear leader, Hoxha, lied to his people saying that Albania was a modern industrialized country, that doesn't make it so). The only substantial achievement made in Albania was the construction of 800,000 bunkers and pillboxes(and that's not very socialistic).




But still, compare Albania in the socialist period where there were almost no cars and people had social welfare and democratic rights in antithesis to current-day Albania.

There were democratic rights in Albania under Hoxha? Excuse me while I chuck my chili.


In the latter case, the streets of Tirana are filled with cars, but also poverty, unemployment, prostitution,

The poverty was so bad that a refugee could go to Greece as a illegal immigrant and maintain a higher standard of living. And that's if you were employed.

Also, I have yet to see any evidence that prostitution was abolished from a non-state source.


and all of those social woes and lack of democratic freedoms are the norm as well.

They were never free from social woes, nor did they have democratic freedoms. It's insulting to the workers of Albania to say that, and thus its insulting to me, to say that a Stalinist dictatorship was any of those things.



Precisely.

I don't see how it makes a difference if Comrade Hoxha rides around in a bus rather than a car.

As scientific socialists, we aim to end class privileges and Comrade Hoxha wasn't exactly enjoying a class privilege when he travelled around the country on a car, even if its a Mercedes.

It's a practical necessity, get over it.

I know it's a practical necessity. Even Al gore thinks so too. The thing is, is that Hoxha was riding in a luxury automobile, not just any plain old regular car. Further, he was riding in a western limo, not a eastern one; what kind of image does that send?

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I know it's a practical necessity. Even Al gore thinks so too. The thing is, is that Hoxha was riding in a luxury automobile, not just any plain old regular car. Further, he was riding in a western limo, not a eastern one; what kind of image does that send?



Well yeah, you're right in a way.

Perhaps Comrade Hoxha ought to have used some other car, instead of a Mercedes...something like a Soviet or Chinese car.

But you must remember that Albania suffered an economic boycott from the Soviet Union after the Albanian Party of Labor denounced the Khruschevite revisionists.

Furthermore, there was also a very strained economic relationship with China after the Sino-Albanian split.

So for a long time, Albania was in economic isolation, especially from the Soviets and the Chinese too.

Perhaps in such a situation, if they imported a few cars for important Party work from the Western bloc, it might be Ok.

What do you think?

[JKP]

Originally posted by Spirit of [email protected] 21, 2007 01:47 am

I know it's a practical necessity. Even Al gore thinks so too. The thing is, is that Hoxha was riding in a luxury automobile, not just any plain old regular car. Further, he was riding in a western limo, not a eastern one; what kind of image does that send?



Well yeah, you're right in a way.

Perhaps Comrade Hoxha ought to have used some other car, instead of a Mercedes...something like a Soviet or Chinese car.

But you must remember that Albania suffered an economic boycott from the Soviet Union after the Albanian Party of Labor denounced the Khruschevite revisionists.

Furthermore, there was also a very strained economic relationship with China after the Sino-Albanian split.

So for a long time, Albania was in economic isolation, especially from the Soviets and the Chinese too.

Perhaps in such a situation, if they imported a few cars for important Party work from the Western bloc, it might be Ok.

What do you think?
Yeah sure, why not?

But really, that's only a tiny point compared to him being a Stalinist dictator and all that...

[fogao]

Didn't you think why today, in Easterm Europe, nobody is interested in Zivokv, Husak, Kadar, even Tito? But the life and ideas of Enver are still vivid, especially among Albanians? Why in China - which is a country of brutal capitalism today - Mao was left in mausoleum? Because nobody in China is afraid of his ideas. And the vididness of thinking of Enver Hoxha is the reason why everything connected to him is outlawed by todays authorities of Albania.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

As for the Mercedes comment, I realize that most cars were banned in Albania, and frankly I'm all for it. I can only imagine how much cleaner the air would be, how many kilometers of land would be saved from oil exploration, and how much better shape people would be in if cars were restricted to necesity rather than frivolous individualism.

So since you want to deny everyone else (just not the great leader Hoxha?) to drive a car, how about yourself? Do you drive a car?

What if you made a commitment to never set your foot in a car, ever again? You know, to set an example.

Since you are such a big fan of Hoxha, could you tell us how Albania under Hoxha was ruled by the people?

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 03:35 am
Didn't you think why today, in Easterm Europe, nobody is interested in Zivokv, Husak, Kadar, even Tito? But the life and ideas of Enver are still vivid, especially among Albanians? Why in China - which is a country of brutal capitalism today - Mao was left in mausoleum? Because nobody in China is afraid of his ideas.

While your post is completely irrelevant to mine, I'll bite.

Why do you think people still worship Stalin and Mao?

http://www.mosnews.com/files/8261/3.jpg

Nostalgia for Personality Cults is tons of fun!



But the life and ideas of Enver are still vivid, especially among Albanians?

Stalinist dictatorships are usually vivid for those who have to live in them. I'm sure most people on this board haven't even heard about Hoxha until you started bringing him up. And seeing as how this is a radical leftist board, that means he's close to around 99.9 irrelevant and unheard of in the rest of the world.

Besides building 800,000 bunkers, how has Hoxha contributed to the modernization of his country? You know the answer is "not much at all".




And the vididness of thinking of Enver Hoxha is the reason why everything connected to him is outlawed by todays authorities of Albania.

Nothing can stop the invincible thoughts of Enver Hoxha!!!



EDIT: In case you can't tell, I find this thread (and talking about fourth world dictators) to be amusing.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Besides building 800,000 bunkers, how has Hoxha contributed to the modernization of his country? You know the answer is "not much at all".


Would it not be more important to ask us the question;
How was Albania under Hoxha ruled by the proletariat?

Contribution to modernizations or not, I think this is what is the kernel of relevancy...

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Originally posted by JKP+February 21, 2007 09:56 am--> (JKP @ February 21, 2007 09:56 am)
Spirit of [email protected] 21, 2007 01:47 am

I know it's a practical necessity. Even Al gore thinks so too. The thing is, is that Hoxha was riding in a luxury automobile, not just any plain old regular car. Further, he was riding in a western limo, not a eastern one; what kind of image does that send?



Well yeah, you're right in a way.

Perhaps Comrade Hoxha ought to have used some other car, instead of a Mercedes...something like a Soviet or Chinese car.

But you must remember that Albania suffered an economic boycott from the Soviet Union after the Albanian Party of Labor denounced the Khruschevite revisionists.

Furthermore, there was also a very strained economic relationship with China after the Sino-Albanian split.

So for a long time, Albania was in economic isolation, especially from the Soviets and the Chinese too.

Perhaps in such a situation, if they imported a few cars for important Party work from the Western bloc, it might be Ok.

What do you think?
Yeah sure, why not?

But really, that's only a tiny point compared to him being a Stalinist dictator and all that... [/b]

*slams head on the keyboard*

:wacko:

OK tell me something, do you agree with the Marxian class analysis?

Do you seriously believe that its possible for one individual, Hoxha in this case, to monopolize state power?

Any state represents the class interests of a particular ruling-class...not a single "Stalinist dictator".

Even Hitler wasn't a "dictator" in the sense which Liberal ideologues take it. Hitler's regime itself was a class dictatorship by the German bourgeoisie, as represented by the corporations.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Would it not be more important to ask us the question;
How was Albania under Hoxha ruled by the proletariat?

Contribution to modernizations or not, I think this is what is the kernel of relevancy...

Simple really. Take the major socio-economic policies of the Albanian government under Hoxha.

See whether these policies represented the class interests of the proletariat or those of the Albanian bourgeoisie.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Take the major socio-economic policies of the Albanian government under Hoxha.

See whether these policies represented the class interests of the proletariat or those of the Albanian bourgeoisie.

Firstly why are you so keen on defending Hoxha, in particular as some sort of proletarian leader?

It's exactly what the state was: under Hoxha.

I ask you:

How did the common man decide upon the future of Albania?

Was Hoxha elected by the people?

Was the construction of the hundreds of thousands of bunkers, a decision made by the workers?

Where ordinary Marxists allowed? Trotskyists? Anarchists? Was there eager and free public debate in Albania?

And if Alabania under Hoxha was "socialist" (don't laugh!), how come Albania is no longer exactly that?

Why, in a socialist nation, would one single man be the leader of that country for 41 years?

Where people allowed to criticize Hoxha?


See whether these policies represented the class interests of the proletariat or those of the Albanian bourgeoisie.


In any case, how is constructing 800,000 bunkers in the interest of the proletariat?


I ask you these questions because it seems so blatanlty obvious that it was Hoxha who decided and not the ordinary man or woman.

[Prairie Fire]

Bread Bros:


One neutral piece of constructive criticism for any Hoxhaites though: maybe you should do more to tell us about Hoxha, where he fit into in the 20th century history of socialism and what differentiates him from other leaders. Most people here are rather new to Marxism and the left and much of our discussion centers around USSR and PRC, so you arent attracting very many followers by simply posting videos and expecting everyone to see the significance

Agreed. I'll try and contribute a little bit more information on the Peoples Republic of Albania, the PLA and Hoxha.


but I personally believe that a balance of various transportation mediums is most effective. However, thats besides the point, we both know that the decision to ban cars was not an environmental one, it was an economic one. The question is, is that a result of Hoxhas policies, or outside influences?

The fact of the matter is that in the world there is NOT enough oil to go around, for an extended period of time. This is the reality in every country, US and elsewhere.
There's a reason it's called FOSSIL FUELS; Oil takes Millions of years to rejuvenate.
Now I can't imagine a country like Albania, where oil is needed for industries, electricity, heating and public transit, being too liberal with fuel and automobiles.
In my book, thats a good thing. Countries like Albania and the DPRK look at fuel for what it is: a NON-RENEWABLE RESOURCE. Once you burn it, you can't replenish it, so you better use it wisely and efficiently. Albania was not blessed with oil, like Venezuela and the USSR, so they had to use it sparingly.


The other question is, why did Hoxha and his party cohorts deserve cars (luxury cars at that) while everyone else did not? You're telling me that him travelling around the country was more vital than say, someone transporting and distributing goods?

Who says that goods were not being transported? Who says goods were not being distributed? Of course transportation of vital goods would have taken priority over Hoxha driving around. As for the Mercedes, would you rather that Hoxha drove around in a rusted out El-Camino to make an awkward, meaningless attempt at trying to be "Just like everyone else". Everyone else wasn't driving, so just by driving at all, Hoxha was creating a contradiction between himself and the masses.
Still, it was a necescary contradiction.


As for the status symbol...yeah, its a status symbol because there are a lot of perks to driving in a car, namely a high degree of freedom. The economic inequalities that persisted in Albania cant be glossed over!

I'm not glossing over any economic inequalities, because the fact of the matter is that during to period of building Socialism, there are going to be some vestigal inequalities in every country. The fact that there is a leader is a sign that some vestigal signs of class contradictions exist. Still, it is necesary. Once Albania, or any other nation reached communism, only then would all class contradictions completely dissolve. As Lenin Said (And I'm paraphrasing heavily) "Communism is a system in which all will rule in turn and soon become accustomed to no one ruling." Socialism had to take it's course in Albania, as in any other country.


JKP:


Furthermore, why would anyone want to lower their standard of living by giving away cars.

I'm adding that comment to the list of " The most disgustingly yuppie, overprivilaged comments ever.". Let me explain something to you: Albania is a little different than USA. The country was only electrified in the 40's/50's. Imagine that you were the leader of Albania; When you are at the point in your countries development where you've only had electricity for twenty years or so, you have few trading partners and a largely self reliant economy, Driving cars is not a fucking priority. When you have millions of mouths to feed, families to clothe, houses to heat, then cars are not even on your radar. Cars are something that comes after all the real problems have been dealt with. Basic Heiarchy of needs.


Who the fuck are you to decide how people stay in shape? Just because of your fanatical desire to control people according to your own personal beliefs

Calm the fuck down, I just listed that as one of the merits of not driving cars. i didn't say it was the fucking motivation.


and your hatred for individual freedom

"Hatred for freedom"? President Bush, is that you? What are you doing on Revleft? :lol:


Also, who the fuck are you to decide what people need? Need is subjective, so stop imposing your will onto others.

The whole point of a centralized economy is deciding what people need, little boy.
And yes, needs are subjective, but within reason. While some people may have special needs (Medicines and whatnot), there are still general needs. Now cars are not a general need for most people. If you have to travel across the country on a weekly basis, on buisness that benefits the society, then of course you're going to get a vehicle. "To each according to his need...", but the problem is that we have convinced ourselves that we need things that we don't. You don't need a Minivan to drive two blocks to the supermarket to get milk and bread.


Which is why Albania was a shithole of country that made even the Soviet Union look like a worker's paradise! If being "anti-revisionist" means being like Albania, then please, bring on all the Khrushchevs you got!

Kudos on slandering an entire country. Did that prove your point?
If you're going to talk shit about the socio-economic development of a country, you better be prepared to back it up, asshole.


Except that cars came a bit after Marx's time, and thus he had nothing to say about that?

Marx did not specify any particular Vehicle. Marx said that the means of transportation (Horse cart, Bus, Spaceship) must be in the hands of the state.
His analysis is even more relevant now, as all vehicles run on non-renewable fuels.


unlike Hoxha, Lenin and Mao actually modernized and developed their countries, while Albania remained a backward agrarian state (even though your dear leader, Hoxha, lied to his people saying that Albania was a modern industrialized country, that doesn't make it so). The only substantial achievement made in Albania was the construction of 800,000 bunkers and pillboxes(and that's not very socialistic).

My god, do you ever get tired of talking out your ass? You balatanly ignore the fact that NO ONE has modernized Albania as significantly as Hoxha, before or after him. Before Hoxha, Albanias chief industry was subsitance agriculture. Today, after Hoxha, Albanias chief industry is...Subsitence agriculture. I guess Berishas slogan is "one step forward, tow steps back."


There were democratic rights in Albania under Hoxha? Excuse me while I chuck my chili.

Make a case for your point of view, or shut the fuck up.


They were never free from social woes, nor did they have democratic freedoms. It's insulting to the workers of Albania to say that, and thus its insulting to me, to say that a Stalinist dictatorship was any of those things.

Cite even a single source that they werte not free from financial woes! And don't even pretend that you speak for the "Workers of Albania"! You know nothing about Albania, you Chauvenist ass! Just because you can not comprehend the concept of a "Stalinist Dictatorship" advancing the goals and living conditions of the working class, doesn't mean it didn't happen.


The thing is, is that Hoxha was riding in a luxury automobile, not just any plain old regular car. Further, he was riding in a western limo, not a eastern one; what kind of image does that send?

To a persyn like you, so much of socialism must be purely ceremonial. "Look, I drive a car, but it's like ten years old, and made in Eastern Europe rather then western europe". If you'd ever read anything by Hoxha, you'd see that he loathed Soviet imperialism as much as US Imperialism. Albanias cars needed to come form somewhere, so they got them from whoever was selling them.

More to come....

[JKP]

This is hilarious!

I'm going to see what some other people have to say, and then I'll just let this miserable thread die.

[Prairie Fire]

NWOG:


So since you want to deny everyone else (just not the great leader Hoxha?) to drive a car, how about yourself? Do you drive a car?

What if you made a commitment to never set your foot in a car, ever again? You know, to set an example.

You know, considering how hard you're trying to catch me in contradiction, you're not doing a very good job. If you had read the enrite paragraph that you quoted,
you would see that I SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT I DON"T DRIVE OR OWN A VEHICLE. Here's the quote:
Myself, I don't own a car. Every where I go, I walk or take the bus.

Dumbass.


Since you are such a big fan of Hoxha, could you tell us how Albania under Hoxha was ruled by the people?

I allready told Bread Bros that we're going to put up a thread with more info on Hoxha. Seriously, read the fucking thread before you post, moron.


Was Hoxha elected by the people?

Yes. Shortly after the Second World war there was elections in Albania. Hoxha won. Even if there wasn't, it would make little difference. Parliamentary democracy is not the road to socialism.


Where ordinary Marxists allowed? Trotskyists? Anarchists? Was there eager and free public debate in Albania?

There was eager and free public debate. I doubt that trots and anarchists were allowed. After a revolution has occured, any elements who try and overthrow it are counter-revolutionary, no matter what ideology they subscribe to.


And if Alabania under Hoxha was "socialist" (don't laugh!), how come Albania is no longer exactly that?

Hoxha died in 1985. Ramiz Alia decided to go a different way with the party, and initiated catastrophic reforms. Sali Berisha lead a coup, became head of state, and immediatly began repressing the people and arresting members of the PLA.

I encourage you to read a work, distributed by anarchists actually, called "Albania:Laboratory of Subversion." There are many good parts in it, documenting the popular resistance in Albania during the 90's. Message me for the link.



Why, in a socialist nation, would one single man be the leader of that country for 41 years?

Whats so terribly wrong with that? If a man is agood leader, where is it written that he HAS to be replaced?


Where people allowed to criticize Hoxha?

I know that his policies could be shot down. I know that the PLA practiced criticism and self criticism, just not like the Maoists do.


In any case, how is constructing 800,000 bunkers in the interest of the proletariat?

You use the term so deceptively. If Albania were to get invaded, they would need those bunkers for self defense.

Everyone keeps bringing up the bunkers as though they are so scandalous...
Out of curiosity, who do you think was going to be manning these bunkers in the event of an invasion, if not the Albanian proletariat?


How did the common man decide upon the future of Albania?

The common man could join the PLA, participate in democratic-centralism, and form the policies of the party.

Still more on the way ( I'm really strapped for time right now)...

[Prairie Fire]

Yeah sure, why not?

But really, that's only a tiny point compared to him being a Stalinist dictator and all that...

So you basically you admit that you have no argument, just that you hate Hoxha?


While your post is completely irrelevant to mine, I'll bite.

Why do you think people still worship Stalin and Mao?



Nostalgia for Personality Cults is tons of fun!

This is a contradiction. What part of a personality cult invokes nostalgia? Nostalgia is invoked by th ememories of better times. Because admiring Stalin/Mao/hoxha doesn't fit into your dogama, you start spewing bullshit lines like this.

If you could put your dogma aside for just a second, could you possibly consider that maybe these leaders that you spit on dramatically improved the standard of life in their respective countries?


Stalinist dictatorships are usually vivid for those who have to live in them.

Quit using bullshit buzzwords like "Stalinist dictatorship" in the place of an actual argument.


I'm sure most people on this board haven't even heard about Hoxha until you started bringing him up. And seeing as how this is a radical leftist board, that means he's close to around 99.9 irrelevant and unheard of in the rest of the world.


The best way to silence a persyn is to deny their existence. Theres a reason that while men like Stalin are mercillessly draged through the mud in public schools, Hoxha is not mentioned. Believe me, if the powers that be thought that any of their arguments against Hoxha had any weight, they would mention him in the school curriculum too.


Besides building 800,000 bunkers, how has Hoxha contributed to the modernization of his country? You know the answer is "not much at all".

Actually, at least 90% of albanias industry was built under Hoxha. The country was electrified, women recieved total equal rights, the blood feud was abolished, the majority of schools and hospitals were opened... Seriosly, if you would do more research than just a fucking wiki profile, you might have a more solid stance.

If you'd like more in depth information, message me, and I'll email you a text about economic development in Albania under the PLA.


Nothing can stop the invincible thoughts of Enver Hoxha!!!

Stop being a prick. Fogao had a valid point: Everything about Hoxha has been suppressed. Many members of his family and the PLA have been arrested and served prison sentences. His Fucking body was exhumed from a grave and reburied, at night, with armed guards watching. Read "My father, Enver Hoxha" by Ilir Hoxha.


This is hilarious!

I'm going to see what some other people have to say, and then I'll just let this miserable thread die.

You remind me of this dumbfuck cappie that I was arguing with on the "DPRK forever" board.

Here are a few quotes from him:


This is actually funny! Ravenblade, you are an amusing figure. Thanks for the laugh...although I am glad there are not too many of you in the world...talk about lunatics taking over the asylum!


...I nearly had to change my shorts from the laughing.


You poor deluded simpleton....but thanks for the laugh.

That last quote was his response to an 11 paragraph reply from me.
You argue just like him, pretending that you are intellectually superior and laughing at all the little people, when in actuality you have no argument.
Too bad it didn't work as well as you planned.

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 05:11 pm

You argue just like him, pretending that you are intellectually superior and laughing at all the little people, when in actuality you have no argument.
Too bad it didn't work as well as you planned.
I didn't know you cared so much about your dear leader.

As I said, this is simply for my amusement.
It's like a carnival sideshow with secret police, fourth world references (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbonia), and more personality cult than you can shake a placard at.

In fact, perhaps some personality cult is just what what you need to get cheered up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiQXh91sfDc

Or maybe political indoctrination of kids is more your thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVS8fCc541I

[Councilman Doug]

You're not fooling anyone JKP. Just admit you know little about the subject or try doing some actual research.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Firstly why are you so keen on defending Hoxha, in particular as some sort of proletarian leader?

But why shouldn't I?

Probably his greatest achievement as a proletarian leader was the formation of a policy which avoided both Soviet revisionism and US imperialism.


It's exactly what the state was: under Hoxha.

*sigh*

The only reason I said "under Hoxha" was that he was the highest executive authority.


I ask you:

How did the common man decide upon the future of Albania?

Through local councils. And through the Party apparatus, which was open to all citizens.


Was Hoxha elected by the people?

So in your opinion, the only way a proleterian leader can prove his/her legitimacy is by bourgeois vote-counts?

The Albanian people united behind the Albanian Party of Labor in fighting the Fascist invasion, Hoxha was elected as the leader through the democratic process of the Party.

If he hadn't enjoyed the confidence of the masses, they would have removed him. That's what happens in a revolution, you know.


Was the construction of the hundreds of thousands of bunkers, a decision made by the workers?

It most certainly was.

Unless you feel that only Hoxha and a few party leaders were concerned about invasion by the Soviet revisionists or the US imperialists.


Where ordinary Marxists allowed? Trotskyists? Anarchists? Was there eager and free public debate in Albania?

I would be very surprised if it wasn't. Most certainly there was active debate within the Party apparatus, and criticism and self-criticism were encouraged.


And if Alabania under Hoxha was "socialist" (don't laugh!), how come Albania is no longer exactly that?

First, I'm not too sure if we can say Albania was "socialist". It was a country which was on the route to socialism, i.e. efforts were being made to BUILD socialism.

The same was the case in China and other revolutionary proletarian states.


Why, in a socialist nation, would one single man be the leader of that country for 41 years?

Is it impossible that he enjoyed the confidence and the democratic support of the workers' and peasants' councils for so long?




See whether these policies represented the class interests of the proletariat or those of the Albanian bourgeoisie.



In any case, how is constructing 800,000 bunkers in the interest of the proletariat?


I ask you these questions because it seems so blatanlty obvious that it was Hoxha who decided and not the ordinary man or woman.


And I repeat the point I made earlier. Was it only in Hoxha's interests that Albania be defended from the considerable foreign threats (arising from both the Warsaw Pact and NATO countries)?

Do you feel that the working masses would have taken no interest in the defence of their country, and would have preferred it to be a sitting duck in the face of imperialism?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 07:36 am
I didn't know you cared so much about your dear leader.

As I said, this is simply for my amusement.
It's like a carnival sideshow with secret police, fourth world references (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbonia), and more personality cult than you can shake a placard at.

In fact, perhaps some personality cult is just what what you need to get cheered up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiQXh91sfDc

Or maybe political indoctrination of kids is more your thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVS8fCc541I
Great, then go spam in a forum that is meant for such a purpose, like Chit Chat or the Felicia Appreciation Club.

[fogao]

Some hoxhaist international links, if you are interested:

http://archive.250x.com/hoxha/english.html

http://www.mltranslations.org/links.htm

http://www.communistleague.org.uk/

http://archive.250x.com/hoxha/english/august1979.html

http://archive.250x.com/hoxha/albanian.html



http://ciml.250x.com/archive/hoxha/albanian/eh_kur_1.html

[fogao]

An article of 1996, for those who don't know aboout the anticommunist terror in Albania in the 90-ties:

Shevqet Peci - a communist martyr (Albania, 1996)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shevqet Peçi: "Hero of the Albanian People"
(Published by La Nostra Lotta, Italy)

The life of the Hero of the People Shevqet Peçi is one of a long period of courage. Born in the mountain village of Picarit near Girokastra on June 30, 1906, he developed the spirit of a fighter quite early, and he was only 14 years old when he took part in the war against the Italians in Valona in 1920. In 1924 he fought in the democratic revolution headed by Fan Noli. During the period of the monarchic power, he was an officer of King Zog, but not sharing the power for which he gave his service as an officer and having become anti-Zog he has arrested for the first time in 1937 and demoted from military officer. He fought against the fascist monarchy, heading the protest of the students of the city of Elbasan, when the monarchy brought the Italian fascists to Albania. In the Anti-Fascist War of National Liberation he was immediately committed as patriot. As a patriot Sh. Peçi naturally could not remain indifferent to the outbreak of the Second World War. During the first months of 1942 he was already the leader of partisan military formations and at the same time he joined the Albanian Communist Party, (later called Party of Labour). He was chosen commander and commissar of the partisan military formations of the operational zone of Valona-Girokastra, where he carried out the duties as commander with valor, ability, talent and experience.

The condition of the antifascist war, the ideals that were fundamental to him of defense of the country and his leadership abilities, led Sh. Peçi to become commander of the 5th Partisan Brigade and then deputy commander of the 1st Partisan Division. The echo of the deeds of Sh. Peçi went beyond the borders of Albania, he fought against the Germans leading partisan military formations for the liberation of Kosova, gaining respect. After liberation he worked at all posts - both military and state - with honesty and high consciousness. He was Minister of Mines, Minister of Communications, President of the State Control, deputy in Parliament in all the legislatures up to March 31, 1991. In 1970 he was also the President of the Presidium of the Popular Assembly. In the last period he served as President of the National Committee of the Veterans of the Anti-Fascist war of National Liberation of the Albanian People, 1982-1992. For his merits of struggle, of a heroic combatant in the Second World War, he was given the medal of HERO OF THE PEOPLE as well as the high honorary nomination as a great democratic soldier of the "GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI" brigade. In his very intense life Sh. Peçi also found the time to write. He wrote books of memoirs of the Second World War and many poems about life in the countryside. Sh. Peçi began his life well, he continued it with dignity and he concluded it with a crescendo. At the end of this century the regime of Berisha took him prisoner at the age of 90 years with absurd accusations and "laws."

When Sh. Peçi had fought for the liberation of the city of Kukesit in the north of Albania, some traitors and collaborators of the Nazis murdered 47 partisans of the 5th Brigade. They were all young people. Also 64 citizens of Kosova who had been freed from prison. These were caught by surprise while they were sleeping or eating. In response the partisan organized by Sh. Peçi killed 21 collaborators. After more than half a century the grandsons of these collaborators, through a political order of Berisha, carried out their revenge and imprisoned Sh. Peçi, who was in very bad health, on a stretcher with a fractured leg that necessitated daily attention. Thus an anti-fascist, anti-Zogist, anti-monarchist, legendary hero of the people, after 60 years returned to jail under the "democratic" regime of Berisha. But Sh. Peçi was never afraid of the fascists and Nazis, he always remained brave and he declared openly "it is an honor for me to die in Berisha's prison." From that moment on he went on a hunger strike and said, "I want neither food nor medical treatment from the fascists." This he decided and this he carried out until the end.

After 12 days Sh. Peçi died. He has chosen to end his life in the same way, as a brave patriot and hero. Sh. Peçi did not die in the hearts of the people. The death that occurred in prison has not been brought to light at all, it remains a mystery, history will resolve it. The funeral of Sh. Peçi was a great demonstration of the respect of the people and of the group of politicians for this man, a hero in difficult times as well.

Tirana, July 10, 1996

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Thank you for the information about Shevqet Peci, comrade.

The "democratic" Albanian regime is indeed guilty of severe repression of progressive and revolutionary elements.

[Prairie Fire]

Thanks for all of the links, comrade.

I think that Comintern ML is mostly dead. I'm on thei rlis, and don't get many updates.

The Communist League (UK) and Alliance ML are also pretty much dead.

all of the more staunchly Hoxhaist organizations kind of died with the PLA.

Perhaps a new Hoxhaist internationalist organization is in order.

[Councilman Doug]

Perhaps a new Hoxhaist internationalist organization is in order.

I respect what was done in Albania under the PLA but the last thing the left needs now is another sectarian party, regardless of the ideology.

[fogao]

The Canadian hoxhaist party (of former leader Hardial Banes) surely is vivid. Here are the links:

http://www.cpcml.ca/


party memorial:
http://www.cpcml.ca/PartyMonument/monument.html