Transition From Mao To Deng

[Vargha Poralli]

How did it really happened. Exactly how could a person who had been demonised as a "counter-revolutionary" and "capitalist-roader" could cling back to power once Mao is dead ? What exactly differentiates Mao's China with China after Mao ?



Is there any Marxist analysis of events in China during the transitional periods.

[Whitten]

I'm not sure of the details but I think the central committee just invited Deng back after Mao died.


What exactly differentiates Mao's China with China after Mao ?

While Mao, whether you agree with his methods or not, was pursuing a socialist economy, Deng and his successors restablished the market economy and invited the foriegn Bourgeois in to take over. Not only were they anti-socialist they were anti-national-liberation.

[Red7]

Yes, I don't agree with Mao's methods, but he was a good socialist...and an excellent revolutionary. I don't think Mao would be very happy with what China is today. Everyone blames Communism for Tiananmen Square, but that was under Deng.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 11:49 am
While Mao, whether you agree with his methods or not, was pursuing a socialist economy, Deng and his successors restablished the market economy and invited the foriegn Bourgeois in to take over.
...over the course of decades. The fight over the restoration of capitalism is ongoing, with huge numbers of worker and peasant strikes and protests occuring constantly.

But the Maoist claim about Mao and Deng is just bizarre: that the political shift from one faction of the CCP to another - equalled an instant economic shift from one system to another. No, shifting the economic base is not so easy and changing the political superstructure.

And the relation between Mao and Deng was never simple: they were both factional opponents and party comrades. Deng was on the long march...Mao repeatedly purged him, but repeatedly brought him back to manage the economy. And finally, it was Mao's handpicked successor, Hua, who worked with Deng to purge the "Gang of Four".

I might point out that when Nixon and Kissinger went to China, they met with both Mao and Deng....

So rather than pretend that one faction of the bureaucracy represents "socialism" and the other "capitalist-roaders", it's better to recognize that both factions have a lot in common, and only the workers and peasants can be counted on to defend the gains of the revolution.

As, in fact, that's who is defending the remaining gains of the Chinese Revolution today.

Peng Shuzi's (http://www.marxists.org/archive/peng/index.htm) writings on the Cultural Revolution and other factional conflict within the Chinese CP are good background for this.

There's also a book, "China After Mao", by Leslie Evans.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Whitten
I'm not sure of the details but I think the central committee just invited Deng back after Mao died.

In reality even before Mao's death Deng was brought back by Mao himself to correct the severe economic damage which was caused due to the Cultural revolution in 1974. Then he was again demoted and purged during 1976 shortly before Mao's death.Which itself shows the hypocrisy of Mao who is the one responsible for purging him earlier ,brought him back to office to use him up and again purge him. So Deng is not denounced for being a capitalist roader but for threatening the Position and power of Mao.


While Mao, whether you agree with his methods or not, was pursuing a socialist economy

Which is highly doubhtful. We must see past the rhetoric to determine whether he was pursuing a socialist path or not. His action speak otherwise.

Severian's post had answered all my questions,but I would like the Ultra-Maoists in this board to refute his points.

[Janus]

How did it really happened. Exactly how could a person who had been demonised as a "counter-revolutionary" and "capitalist-roader" could cling back to power once Mao is dead ?
Deng was a survivor. Even after his original denunciation, Mao still told people to keep him around because he saw potential in the small guy. He was able to make a comeback in the mid-70's because of Zhou Enlai's support and thus come back at a critical point in China's history. He was ousted again in 1976 by the Gang of Four yet was still able to wield support in the CCP and eventually overpowered Hua Guofeng who had crushed the Gang of Four.


Then he was again demoted and purged during 1976 shortly before Mao's death.Which itself shows the hypocrisy of Mao who is the one responsible for purging him earlier ,brought him back to office to use him up and again purge him. So Deng is not denounced for being a capitalist roader but for threatening the Position and power of Mao.
He was really purged by the Gang of Four. By then, Mao had pretty much ceded day to day affairs to other bureaucrats.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 05:27 am

How did it really happened. Exactly how could a person who had been demonised as a "counter-revolutionary" and "capitalist-roader" could cling back to power once Mao is dead ?
Deng was a survivor. Even after his original denunciation, Mao still told people to keep him around because he saw potential in the small guy. He was able to make a comeback in the mid-70's because of Zhou Enlai's support and thus come back at a critical point in China's history. He was ousted again in 1976 by the Gang of Four yet was still able to wield support in the CCP and eventually overpowered Hua Guofeng who had crushed the Gang of Four.


Then he was again demoted and purged during 1976 shortly before Mao's death.Which itself shows the hypocrisy of Mao who is the one responsible for purging him earlier ,brought him back to office to use him up and again purge him. So Deng is not denounced for being a capitalist roader but for threatening the Position and power of Mao.
He was really purged by the Gang of Four. By then, Mao had pretty much ceded day to day affairs to other bureaucrats.
Janus could you give some details about LinBiao too ? did he really planned to depose Mao or is it just a Fabrication by Gang of four ? How is the relationship between Lin and Mao during those times ? And how exactly does Mao's China's economy run ?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 05:57 pm
He was really purged by the Gang of Four. By then, Mao had pretty much ceded day to day affairs to other bureaucrats.
You're trying to have it both ways: distance Mao from the "Gang of Four", but also maintain the view that the purge of the "Gang of Four" marked a complete break from Mao's (allegedly socialist) approach.

In reality, they were his closest political associates....his "kitchen cabinet" in a sense. They had no authority without his support. They were obscure provincial bureaucrats before he appointed them to high office, and fell quickly and easily after his death.


Janus could you give some details about LinBiao too ? did he really planned to depose Mao or is it just a Fabrication by Gang of four ?

Not Janus, but if you want an accurate answer....

Nobody really knows - everything was held so tightly and secretly within the bureaucracy. But the accusation was made by Mao, not just the Gang of Four. If there's a fabrication, it's Mao's.


How is the relationship between Lin and Mao during those times ?

He was Mao's designated heir and Mao put Lin in charge of the army. During the Cultural Revolution, Lin's support - Lin's soldiers were crucial at several points in assuring Mao's victory over other CCP factions.

The Cultural Revolution ended in a compromise with the army as arbiter. This made Mao's power even more dependent on Lin's support.

After Lin's death, Mao was left isolated, balancing with little support from any faction. This forced him to turn to Chou En-Lai for help - Chou was respected by all factions of the CCP, including Deng's.


And how exactly does Mao's China's economy run ?

It's impossible to answer this question accurately without distinguishing between different periods of Mao's rule. There were several drastic policy changes during this time, often based on whatever would give him an advantage over factional rivals.

[Janus]

You're trying to have it both ways: distance Mao from the "Gang of Four", but also maintain the view that the purge of the "Gang of Four" marked a complete break from Mao's (allegedly socialist) approach.
No, my point was that Deng was purged in 1976 by the Gang of Four at a time when Mao was pretty much incapable of governing. By the this time, Mao was retreating more and more out of the political picture due to his health. The Gang of Four were quite closely connected with Mao but they were also opportunists as well who were more or less working on their own during the waning years of Mao's life.


did he really planned to depose Mao or is it just a Fabrication by Gang of four ?
The Lin Biao episode is probably one of the most bizarre events in Chinese history and since the only records of it were made by the Party, no one's sure what really happened as much of the details are shrouded in secrecy. However, based on the organization and poor planning of the actual assassination attempt, I doubt Lin Biao was the actual planner but rather perhaps his son.


How is the relationship between Lin and Mao during those times ?
Before 1971, they were very good. Lin looked like the most promising candidate to become Mao's successor but this all soured in 1971.


And how exactly does Mao's China's economy run ?
That's a broad question. However, it operated on central party organization/planning at the national and local levels. Collectives and certain industries were given a certain amount of autonomy/leeway but quotas and other figures were still maintained by a bureaucracy.