Left Libertarians.

[Nusocialist]

As an anarchist I'm very interested interested in all true libertarian thought and have recently come across people calling themselves left libertarians and are offshoots of the american libertarian movement I'm usually very scornful of.
What do people here, particularly anarchists think of them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

[Demogorgon]

It is a ppretty inconsistent viewpoint. I don't think the people who follow it are doing it out of badness or anything, but it is a fairly inconsistent (and impossible) position in my view.

Incidentally they are completely seperate fromt he Libertarian Left, just to make things confusing

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:36 am
As an anarchist I'm very interested interested in all true libertarian thought and have recently come across people calling themselves left libertarians and are offshoots of the american libertarian movement I'm usually very scornful of.
What do people here, particularly anarchists think of them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
Left libertarians are not an "offshoot" of the American Libertarian Party. The word "libertarian" was invented by Joseph Déjacque, an anarchist communist, over 150 years ago, and until recently libertarianism was pretty much a synonym for anarchism. However, in the 1960s the word was stolen by the Libertarian Party, a group of anti-government laissez-faire capitalists who must have heard it somewhere and thought it sounded cool, without taking the time to study libertarian theory to find out what it actually means. In true capitalist manner, they simply expropriated it from the working class without apology so they could use it for their own bourgeois class interests.

Since then, in America and increasingly in other English-speaking countries people have been associating the word "libertarianism" with this kind of right-wing ideology. But in France, nobody is going to mistake you for a capitalist if you call yourself libertaire.

Since libertarianism is really just anarchism, as an anarchist I am all for it.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by Marijuanarchy+February 20, 2007 02:01 pm--> (Marijuanarchy @ February 20, 2007 02:01 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 07:36 am
As an anarchist I'm very interested interested in all true libertarian thought and have recently come across people calling themselves left libertarians and are offshoots of the american libertarian movement I'm usually very scornful of.
What do people here, particularly anarchists think of them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
Left libertarians are not an "offshoot" of the American Libertarian Party. The word "libertarian" was invented by Joseph Déjacque, an anarchist communist, over 150 years ago, and until recently libertarianism was pretty much a synonym for anarchism. However, in the 1960s the word was stolen by the Libertarian Party, a group of anti-government laissez-faire capitalists who must have heard it somewhere and thought it sounded cool, without taking the time to study libertarian theory to find out what it actually means. In true capitalist manner, they simply expropriated it from the working class without apology so they could use it for their own bourgeois class interests.

Since then, in America and increasingly in other English-speaking countries people have been associating the word "libertarianism" with this kind of right-wing ideology. But in France, nobody is going to mistake you for a capitalist if you call yourself libertaire.

Since libertarianism is really just anarchism, as an anarchist I am all for it. [/b]
All true. But the particular Left Libertarians he is referring too here actually are a bizarre offshoot of the US Libertarian Party.

[YSR]

EEP! Although people like to use the word "anarcho-capitalist" as an insult rather than a descriptor, these people are actually anarcho-capitalists. Keep me far away from them, por favor.

[Nusocialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 02:01 pm


Left libertarians are not an "offshoot" of the American Libertarian Party. The word "libertarian" was invented by Joseph Déjacque, an anarchist communist, over 150 years ago, and until recently libertarianism was pretty much a synonym for anarchism. However, in the 1960s the word was stolen by the Libertarian Party, a group of anti-government laissez-faire capitalists who must have heard it somewhere and thought it sounded cool, without taking the time to study libertarian theory to find out what it actually means. In true capitalist manner, they simply expropriated it from the working class without apology so they could use it for their own bourgeois class interests.

Since then, in America and increasingly in other English-speaking countries people have been associating the word "libertarianism" with this kind of right-wing ideology. But in France, nobody is going to mistake you for a capitalist if you call yourself libertaire.

Since libertarianism is really just anarchism, as an anarchist I am all for it.
I know what you mean but youare mistaken about the left libertarians I was talking about.

Anyway I'm aware of the history of the word and think we should take it back, I usually but libertarian in brackets(who put words like Vulgar or fake before it.) when i refer to the modern american style of libertarians.

[Delta]

Yeah, the capitalist libertarian position is outrageously absurd:--Limit political power! INFINITE economic power! No contradition!

[Chicano Shamrock]

Left Libertarianism is the same as anarcho-capitalism right? It all just sounds like bs to me. How can anarchism and capitalism be used in the same breath correspondingly? Here is a video that I saw of some jerk hole that tries to sound intelligent while defending "left libertarianism" but to me just sounds contradictory in every case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H-6OjeGGZo

[Janus]

Left Libertarianism is the same as anarcho-capitalism right?
Yes.


It all just sounds like bs to me. How can anarchism and capitalism be used in the same breath correspondingly?
You're right and this is why many social anarchists don't consider individual "anarchists" to actually be anarchists.

[Eleutherios]

Well what is it about the ideology of these "left" "libertarians" that makes them think they're leftists?

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 06:48 pm
Well what is it about the ideology of these "left" "libertarians" that makes them think they're leftists?
I don't know too much about it but from what I get is that they believe in individual liberty but they believe in a capitalist system. Supposedly they believe in no hierarchy but the capitalist system will still create the haves and the have-nots. So even though they technically believe in no governmental hierarchy they still support an economic hierarchy where the haves will control the have-nots through capital.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 02:48 am
Well what is it about the ideology of these "left" "libertarians" that makes them think they're leftists?
They distrust (even despise) corporate power and tend to have an egalitarian world outlook. They are deluding themselves if they think capitalism will achieve what they want, but there you go, that's what they think.

Also some like Murray Rothbard tended to associate with the real left quite frequently. Rothbard himself after falling out with the right, allied himself with the left for a while because he shared our views about imperialism and war in general.

[Rage]

I think that people who support Anarchy and Capitalism are members of the Libertarian Party of the United States.


/,,/
Rock on!

[Budapestkick]

Useful leftist libertarian/former trotskyist blog with good links here: Early Days of a Better Nation (http://kenmacleod.blogspot.com/).

Also the major flaw with anarcho-capitalism seems to be that if the state were to be dissolved, wouldn't the capitalists, now free of things like the welfare state (which though a proletarian gain is still part of the bourgeois state), simply build up the state again? I mean they could hire armed men and form a police force and army, hire judges to form a judiciary and within a few years the bourgeois state would be restored, only worse.