what else is there?

[R_P_A_S]

so right now I'm sort of at a cross road. and I have some questions for you. as many of you are atheist.

can you be spiritual? what do one actually believes in? does an atheist believe in a supernatural power? that is not called GOD? perhaps im not making sense. hopefully some of you can share what you believe in, and why.

thankx

[Janus]

can you be spiritual?
It depends on what you mean by it. Spirituality is usually but not always connected to religion.


what do one actually believes in?
That no supernatural beings or deities exist.


does an atheist believe in a supernatural power? that is not called GOD?
No, that contradicts the fundamental meaning of atheism.

[encephalon]

an atheist does not accept anything beyond the material world. Atheists believe in the material world alone, and those things that can be logically deduced from the material world.

"Spirituality" is difficult to appraoach because so many people mean so many different things when they say the word. Perhaps you could narrow down your own definition?

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 06:48 am
an atheist does not accept anything beyond the material world. Atheists believe in the material world alone, and those things that can be logically deduced from the material world.

"Spirituality" is difficult to appraoach because so many people mean so many different things when they say the word. Perhaps you could narrow down your own definition?
keep an open mind about my comments when I say this things. Im basically just talking from what people make me think about and feel.

when you say you don't believe in god. or that there's no supernatural power over man in general you give off the impression of a shallow, self centered man. that has no soul, or no purpose in life.

all my life. its been god this and god that... and well honestly after what I been reading and studying i really have no believe in such thing. I think i got a logical explanation for many things that were so easily just put on god before. yet is not like i walk around like i have the answer to everything or know it all. because I sure as hell DONT!

its sooo damn easy to just say.. "yes i believe in god" you get a nod of the head and life resumes.
well is not like that anymore. I believe in that there is a class struggle and that we need to be aware of it so on.

[R_P_A_S]

and if I may add. i find it that I care more about people and about justice now that i have social conscious and are aware of the class struggle than I ever did under my church or any god, or religion.

[Janus]

or that there's no supernatural power over man in general you give off the impression of a shallow, self centered man
Perhaps that's how religious people view us but atheists are much more rational, objective people and thus tend to think outside of religion which is a very positive thing in our world.


all my life. its been god this and god that...
Yes, the yoke of tradition and religion may be difficult to break and may feel very strange originally but it'll tend to become much clearer and insightful as time passes.

[Eleutherios]

I don't have "spirituality" in any supernatural sense. I am thoroughly convinced that entities such as spirits and souls do not exist. But that doesn't mean that my life doesn't have a purpose. I believe in philosophy, and I believe in science, and I believe in love, and that's all I need.

It would be greedy to demand of the universe something that's somehow even grander than philosophy, science or love. And besides, no god or spirit of any scriptural text, nor any of these vague nebulous ideas about "higher powers" and "spiritual energies" that mystic types drone on about these days, strikes me as grander than philosophy, science, or love.

[R_P_A_S]

what about those people.. like in Asia who walk on nails and can do all this crazy stuff and feel no pain.. do you think the human mind can really project it self to where theres no pain??

[Eleutherios]

No, learning to walk on nails or glass is a simple trick actually. While individual nails and shards of glass can be sharp, there are enough points that no one point can break the tough callous skin on the bottom of the foot.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 07:31 am
No, learning to walk on nails or glass is a simple trick actually. While individual nails and shards of glass can be sharp, there are enough points that no one point can break the tough callous skin on the bottom of the foot.
you also mention not believing in souls or spirits.. so you don't believe in ghost? like you don't think is possible that some people's ghost or spirit reminds around?

you know.. i used to say I believed in ghost... But.. um. i never actually seen one. its all been TV shows and stories from other people.. hmmm

[encephalon]

keep an open mind about my comments when I say this things. Im basically just talking from what people make me think about and feel.

when you say you don't believe in god. or that there's no supernatural power over man in general you give off the impression of a shallow, self centered man. that has no soul, or no purpose in life.

Atheists demand evidence, and constantly search for evidence. This is the exact opposite of being self-centered or close minded.

Your argument that it gives the impression of being a "shallow and self-centered man that has no soul" presupposes the existence of a soul and the necessity thereof to have a purpose-driven life, which makes it hardly an argument at all.. at best, it's a stereotype that bears almost no likeness to reality, if you bother to take the time studying the more prominent atheists throughout history.

We simply demand evidence; if that's too much to ask of a believer, so be it--but they're far from being the deep, egalitarian people if that's the case.

[Eleutherios]

Ghosts do not exist. When you die, you die. All your personality, emotions and memories are complex arrangements of neurons in your brain, which is proven by the fact that physical damage to the brain will damage these functions of the mind, as well as the fact that introducing physical chemicals (drugs) to the brain will alter these functions. When that organ stops functioning and decomposes, there is no way that the information that was previously stored in it would continue floating around as a ghost somewhere. It's as ridiculous as the idea of deleted computer files lurking around your house in some strange ethereal non-physical sense.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 07:41 am
Ghosts do not exist. When you die, you die. All your personality, emotions and memories are complex arrangements of neurons in your brain, which is proven by the fact that physical damage to the brain will damage these functions of the mind, as well as the fact that introducing physical chemicals (drugs) to the brain will alter these functions. When that organ stops functioning and decomposes, there is no way that the information that was previously stored in it would continue floating around as a ghost somewhere. It's as ridiculous as the idea of deleted computer files lurking around your house in some strange ethereal non-physical sense.
what about like.. ok im not saying is true. but what about people who say that they felt a ghost. or a spirit and took a picture of like the spot where they claim to have felt this. and then theres like a shadow or a blur in for of a person in the developed film..???

what about the Queen Mary here in California. soooo many people swear up and down that is hunted.. so all those people are just making shit it?

im not saying i believe it. but theres soo much shit around that you are just like ok. yeah its true!

[encephalon]

You, dear sir, watch too many haunted house documentaries without questioning it enough; documentaries are made to make money, not to inform. Remember that.

People convince themselves of the strangest things. Just ask scientologists.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 07:52 am
You, dear sir, watch too many haunted house documentaries without questioning it enough; documentaries are made to make money, not to inform. Remember that.

People convince themselves of the strangest things. Just ask scientologists.
HAHAHA.. hey now give me a break. im questioning all the stuff I used to believe. ok?
and not all documentaries are made just to make money.. some are actually informative!

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 07:47 am
what about like.. ok im not saying is true. but what about people who say that they felt a ghost. or a spirit and took a picture of like the spot where they claim to have felt this. and then theres like a shadow or a blur in for of a person in the developed film..???
You've been watching the pseudoscientists on the ghost hunter shows, haven't you? How can you "feel" a soul? How can you feel the embodiment somebody else's personality, emotions, memories and thoughts? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe they felt cold, or maybe they felt déjà vu, or maybe they felt tingly, but they certainly could not have physically felt an abstract idea like a personality.

Also, photographs do not prove the existence of ghosts. Photographs capture photons, thus for a ghost to appear in a photograph it would have to emit photons, which would also be visible to human eyes. It is common for photos to have lens flares (smudges of light), and the details of why have to do with the optics of cameras which I'd rather not get into here, but ghost-hunters typically interpret these lens flares as evidence that their suspicions about ghosts were true. The thing is, they don't know how their equipment works, and they don't realize that lens flares occur just as often in places that are not allegedly haunted, since they only bother taking pictures of places where they think ghosts are!


what about the Queen Mary here in California. soooo many people swear up and down that is hunted.. so all those people are just making shit it?
No, it's just a meme that has been successful at replicating itself. When somebody is told a place is haunted, and they sincerely believe it, their imagination can get ahold of them and they will interpret all sorts of things from gusts of wind to unidentifiable sounds as evidence of ghosts.

im not saying i believe it. but theres soo much shit around that you are just like ok. yeah its true!
I have looked at a lot into all kinds of supernatural and paranormal things, from astrology to Ouija boards to religions to psychic powers, and I have to say there just isn't any convincing reason to believe in any of these things. I have looked and looked, and I have not found sufficient evidence for anything existing beyond matter, energy and spacetime.

[colonelguppy]

i think the already natural powers that be are already grand enough to not feel the need for anything bigger.

[Rage Against Right]

I dont believe in God or religion, but i'm not an atheist in the sense i believe in the Universe, i believe their is something else, what i'm not sure of but, i try and stay connected with the cosmose because i believe their is more to life then what meets the eye, but i think it is a very personal thing and very different for each person and i think religion is a load of bollucks, it a short cut, an easy option.

I dont believe in God but i believe in sprituality (if that makes sense, to me it does)

[freakazoid]

Has anybody read Mere Christianity by C.C Lewis? I am still currently reading it, about half way through, and I must say that it is very good and easy to read. :D

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 02:46 am
Has anybody read Mere Christianity by C.C Lewis? I am still currently reading it, about half way through, and I must say that it is very good and easy to read. :D
I read it. It's terrible. He's preaching to the converted. His basic premise, that of "natural law of morality", is entirely flawed.

[Cryotank Screams]

The only thing I believe is myself, and the profound wonder of the natural world, and the cosmos, and I don't really see how and why people need more than that.

[Forward Union]

Why do ghosts wear clothes? does clothing have an afterlife?

[ichneumon]

can you be spiritual? what do one actually believes in? does an atheist believe in a supernatural power? that is not called GOD? perhaps im not making sense. hopefully some of you can share what you believe in, and why.

well, you asked. i don't preach, but when people ask, i'm supposed to answer.

caveat: there are many variety of buddhism. i'm most speaking for the kind of zen and theravada based religion found amoung globalists east and west.

buddhism acknowledges the existance of spiritual beings, which might be called devils, gods, spirits, what have you, then tells people not to worship them. the whole point of siddharta gautama's little quest was to prove that you can have the psychological benefits of religion without worshipping anything.

furthermore, the worship of supernatural entities means that people can and do blame their own failing on these beings, rather than be responsible for what they do. in buddhism, there is no one to forgive you. there is no "original sin" nor did anyone die to redeem you. it's up to you - if you fuck up, you have to fix it. or live with it.

karma, at root, isn't a universal force that rewards/punishes actions. it's the part of your psychological makeup that makes you feel good when you help people. people who devote their lives to compassion are very happy, sane people. on the other hand, if you lie all the time, you lose the ability to trust other people and live in paranoia and fear.

there are two more key points. first is the middle path. you can't be expected to be happy if you don't have food, shelter and medical care. starving yourself is stupid. you have to take care of your body for your mind to work. the middle path means taking just as much as you need to live AND NO MORE. no gluttony or greed or lust, that's pointless. humans also have social needs - we need a certain amount of interaction with each other to stay sane.

after that are the four noble truths, which are about mental suffering. we've dealt with physical suffering with the middle path - you have to feed youself, be well, etc, first. now we look at other suffering. one - suffering is the nature of life, all being grow old, weak, sick and die, and most of them are miserable for most of that time.
two - suffering comes from attachment. mental suffering is about *want*. you spend your life wanting and getting only to want more. it gives you pleasure, sometimes, but never peace. three - there is a way to be free of mental suffering. ascetics, monks, some people, appear not to suffer this way. four - the best way to be free of suffering is to lead a life of compassion and detachment from greed and materialism.
and meditation, which helps a lot. if you do that, you get joy, which unlike pleasure, is continual, has no demands and is fulfilling. you have to stop seeking pleasure to have joy. it's an addiction and it sucks.

so there, buddhism in a nutshell. spirituality without gods. your mileage may vary.

[here for the revolution]

believe in what you want to. i believe all religion is bs personally, but i put up with it so long as they dont try to cram it down my throat. remember `patterning your life around other peoples opinions is nothing more than slavery`. choose what you want to believe don't let us decide.

before i go however it is true that communism generally follows atheism but whatever floats your boat

[Janus]

Why do ghosts wear clothes? does clothing have an afterlife?
Or else they'll be naked. :o So our socially conservative minds "clothe" them upon sight.


Originally posted by Skeptics of ghosts
Critics of "eyewitness ghost sightings" suggest that limitations of human perception and ordinary physical explanations can account for such sightings; for example, air pressure changes in a home causing doors to slam, or lights from a passing car reflected through a window at night. Reports of ghosts "seen out of the corner of the eye" may be accounted for by the sensitivity of human peripheral vision, which can easily mislead, especially late at night, when the brain is tired and more likely to misinterpret sights and sounds. Similarly, pareidolia, an innate tendency to recognize human forms in random patterns, often causes people to believe they have seen ghosts. In addition, some feel human psychology plays a part in such sightings; a person's belief that a location is haunted may cause them to interpret mundane events as confirmation of haunting.

External influences, such as sound waves are thought to be another cause of ghost sightings. Frequencies lower than 20 hertz are called infrasound and are normally inaudible, but British scientists Richard Lord and Richard Wiseman have concluded that infrasound can cause humans to feel a "presence" in the room, or unexplained feelings of anxiety or dread. And Carbon monoxide poisoning, which can cause powerful auditory and visual hallucinations,depression, and a generalized sensation of illness and dread, was recognized as a possible cause for "haunted houses" as early as 1921.

Some sceptics dispute popular explanations for the existence of ghosts, such as the perception that ghosts are produced from the victims of unsolved violent murders. They suggest that if the former is true, then the number of such murders (approximately 1 million over the course of the twentieth century in America alone) should produce overwhelming numbers of ghost sightings. They also argue that the traditional perception of ghosts wearing clothing is illogical given the supposed spiritual nature of ghosts, suggesting that the basis of what a ghost is said to look like and consist of is quite dependent on preconceptions made by society. Sceptics also cite a total lack of scientifically testable and verifiable evidence in favour of the existence of ghosts, despite centuries of interest in the subject.

[Question everything]

Four opitions

1. All hail Patton (see should religion be illegal, it's around the back)
2.believe there is a God out there, but no one religion as it right
3. praise the FSH (flying spaggetti monster)
4. Praise that dinosaur religion they started in chit-chit

(personally I like 1 and 2)

[Question everything]

it wasn't in any order, sorry I'll change it