Have you guys seen this:

[wtfm8lol]

Socrates meets Jesus (http://www.unm.edu/~humanism/socvsjes.htm)

I thought it was pretty funny :P

[Pirate Utopian]

that is funny, good link

[Knight of Cydonia]

Jesus
There is only one god.

Socrates
Oh. You should live here in Athens. We have several to choose from.

hahaha...Jesus pwnd :lol:

nice link mate!

[Pirate Utopian]

Socrates
Did he create plagues, wars, death, suffering and evil.


Jesus
No. These things and all other evils and tragedies come from the Devil, the prince of darkness; or from man's weakness and evil nature. God is all goodness and free of evil; only good can come from God


Socrates
And who for gracious sakes is the devil? Surely he must be a god to be able to visit such powerful calamities on mankind: Yet you have just said there is only one God. Also you have said that all that exists comes from God: And now you say that only good comes from God and all evil comes from someone called the devil. These would seem to be contradictions. I am afraid that your religion is far too complex for this old head to fathom. Yet I will be an eager student and try hard to understand, if you will but help me. Please explain: who is the devil and how can all things come from God and yet not come from God?

[Question everything]

:P awesome script but if anyone is going to make me an atheist it will be my religion teacher.

[Rage Against Right]

AWWW that is so good,
Infortunatly i go to a catholic high school, merely for the fact it has the best music department in my town. But im going to send this all round the skool and show em all.

cheers! :D

[razboz]

That is very good.

[Rage Against Right]

thats excellent, so true but I was wondering if you got some hardcore christians to read that would they think; shit he is right, wat have i done for the last 25 years ive wasted my life, or would they deny reason?

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Legendary.

-Alex

[Question everything]

Infortunatly i go to a catholic high school, merely for the fact it has the best music department in my town. But im going to send this all round the skool and show em all.

same here, but nobody in my school is a hardcore believer, most of them wouldn't even bother read it...

[Political_Chucky]

If God wanted man to go to heaven, why did he put man on earth in the first place? Why did he not simply put man in heaven from the beginning? I find it hard to believe that man with all his capabilities, desires, and complexities was created merely to sit and bow and scrape and worship. Certainly there is not, nor ever was, a human tyrant so vain and proud that he wanted his subjects merely to bow and scrape obsequiously and subserviently before him from dawn to dusk, let alone for all eternity. I certainly can understand why Satan wanted to rebel against such a static, regimented, oppressive, boring society. From what you have told me so far, I would have had to side with Satan in the rebellion, for although I consider myself a humble man as men go, I could not bow and scrape and sing praises all day to a being who threatened me with punishment and eternal torment if I did not.

This shit had me laughing like crazy haha :lol:

[LittleMao]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 15, 2007 08:12 pm
Socrates
Did he create plagues, wars, death, suffering and evil.


Jesus
No. These things and all other evils and tragedies come from the Devil, the prince of darkness; or from man's weakness and evil nature. God is all goodness and free of evil; only good can come from God


Socrates
And who for gracious sakes is the devil? Surely he must be a god to be able to visit such powerful calamities on mankind: Yet you have just said there is only one God. Also you have said that all that exists comes from God: And now you say that only good comes from God and all evil comes from someone called the devil. These would seem to be contradictions. I am afraid that your religion is far too complex for this old head to fathom. Yet I will be an eager student and try hard to understand, if you will but help me. Please explain: who is the devil and how can all things come from God and yet not come from God?
This does not agree with the context of the Bible.
If I might explain the teachings of the Lutheran Church.
God created everything.
He made man different.
He gave man free will.
Man decided to break God's commands.
So he became imperfect and was now subject to death.
Since Adam sinned, sin has been in the world.
We die because of the sin we are born with.
Plagues, death and suffering are all a result of sin. (sin being disobediance from God)
And because of sin we die, both physical and spiritual death.
Spiritual death is eternal seperation from God.
Now God very much wants to be with us, but He hates sin.
So He made a sacrafice to rid us of our sin.
(bear with me now, for the concept of the Trinity comes into play)
(God is three parts. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)
(they are one, but three...)
(The Father is the creator, the Son the savior, and the Holy Spirit is God with us, our conscience)
So Jesus(the Son) was sent to earth, to be the perfect sacrafice.
And as He was nailed to the cross, He took on the sin of the world. (for He is without sin)
So that we may live with Him in heaven.

All we have to do is believe.
We are saved by grace, not works.

That is just the beliefs of one branch of the Christain Church.
PM me?

[wtfm8lol]

i'll not pm you, and advise that you read or re-read the part of the dialogue where socrates explains that free-will is bullshit.

[EwokUtopia]

They got one bit wrong. According to Christian theology, when man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he lost his innocence (not the sexist language) and became aware of his nakedness and covered himself. It was not that he gained sexual desire, but that he gained knowledge of evil.


Now, they call this an original sin, the better question for Socrates to ask is that if man had no knowlege of good and evil before he ate from the tree, how could he have known that it was evil to disobey God, and if he was innocent and had no concept of sin, how could the sin be commited? And if no sin was commited, why was God so malicious as to punish man for something he did not know was wrong until he did it and gained the knowledge afterwards?

Thats the bigger plot hole that Socrates missed.

[freakazoid]

I read through the whole thing. The person that wrote this doesn't seem to have any knowledge of Christianity, like EwokUtopia had said about the sex.



Now, they call this an original sin, the better question for Socrates to ask is that if man had no knowlege of good and evil before he ate from the tree, how could he have known that it was evil to disobey God, and if he was innocent and had no concept of sin, how could the sin be commited? And if no sin was commited, why was God so malicious as to punish man for something he did not know was wrong until he did it and gained the knowledge afterwards?

Are you the one that I had this conversation with on Live Chat? Ok, let me explain this again. God had told them not to eat from the tree, and God warned them about the consequences. Which would give them the knowledge that they should do what He says. Also no where does it say that they don't know that they shouldn't obey.

[wtfm8lol]

God had told them not to eat from the tree, and God warned them about the consequences.

no he hadn't...

[freakazoid]

no he hadn't...

lol, Yes He had. Why would you say He hadn't?

Genesis 1:15 - 1:17
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.

[wtfm8lol]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 11:51 pm

no he hadn't...

lol, Yes He had. Why would you say He hadn't?

Genesis 1:15 - 1:17
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.
because the entire story is made up?

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 04:51 am
lol, Yes He had. Why would you say He hadn't?

Genesis 1:15 - 1:17
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.
Ok, time for a refresh.

They had no knowledge of good or evil until they have eaten from the tree, and they had no concept of death until they left the garden. Therefore they did not understand it was evil to disobey god, and they did not understand the implications of the consequences.

The fact that God would create these innocent beings and warn them of things they can not comprehend is ridiculous. Its like telling a three year old not to have sex with prostitutes because he could get AIDS. Now, your a parent. Some fucking snake tells your three year old child to have sex with a prostitute, and your child gets AIDS. Do you send the child out into the desert and make him suffer for his sins?

Frankly, I think the fact that Adam and Eve could no longer strut around naked without having to put a bush over their junk is punishment enough. God is just a bit of a relentless bastard sometimes.

[EwokUtopia]

Oh how I love debating fiction.

[freakazoid]

because the entire story is made up?

Whether or not this story is made up has nothing to do with this topic.



They had no knowledge of good or evil until they have eaten from the tree, and they had no concept of death until they left the garden. Therefore they did not understand it was evil to disobey god, and they did not understand the implications of the consequences.

Who said that they had no concept of death?

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 05:16 am
Who said that they had no concept of death?
How would they? they lived in a garden of eternal life. They never even had violent TV to give them a concept of death, and take the example of a 5 year old. Just because they see people die on TV doesnt mean they really have a concept of death. Adam and Eve didnt even have this. If we are to take the Bible Literally, then God saying "if you do this you will surely die" would have been the first time they would have ever heard anything about death. Must have confused the shit out of them.

[freakazoid]

If we are to take the Bible Literally, then God saying "if you do this you will surely die" would have been the first time they would have ever heard anything about death.

Who said that this was the first time they had ever heard anything about death?

[midnight marauder]

This dialogue more entertaining than any actual dialogues I've read in Plato! :lol:

Thanks for the link!

Now, if only I could get any actual christians to read this...

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 09:08 am
Who said that this was the first time they had ever heard anything about death?
Find me a biblical passage that implies they understood what death meant before they ate the fruit and I'll eat my words.

Otherwise, and remember, we're all good christians here, it aint so cause it aint in the good book. :D

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by EwokUtopia+March 27, 2007 07:41 am--> (EwokUtopia @ March 27, 2007 07:41 am)
[email protected] 27, 2007 05:16 am
Who said that they had no concept of death?
How would they? they lived in a garden of eternal life. They never even had violent TV to give them a concept of death, and take the example of a 5 year old. Just because they see people die on TV doesnt mean they really have a concept of death. Adam and Eve didnt even have this. If we are to take the Bible Literally, then God saying "if you do this you will surely die" would have been the first time they would have ever heard anything about death. Must have confused the shit out of them. [/b]
EwokUtopia, you're wasting your time comrade. I've been through it all in Live Chat with freakazoid before, he simply can't see the problem with the Adam and Eve story :lol:

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Comrade J+March 27, 2007 02:51 pm--> (Comrade J @ March 27, 2007 02:51 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 07:41 am

[email protected] 27, 2007 05:16 am
Who said that they had no concept of death?
How would they? they lived in a garden of eternal life. They never even had violent TV to give them a concept of death, and take the example of a 5 year old. Just because they see people die on TV doesnt mean they really have a concept of death. Adam and Eve didnt even have this. If we are to take the Bible Literally, then God saying "if you do this you will surely die" would have been the first time they would have ever heard anything about death. Must have confused the shit out of them.
EwokUtopia, you're wasting your time comrade. I've been through it all in Live Chat with freakazoid before, he simply can't see the problem with the Adam and Eve story :lol: [/b]
I've been there quite a few times too. He really wouldn't know logically consistency if it shat in his eyes.

[freakazoid]

Find me a biblical passage that implies they understood what death meant before they ate the fruit and I'll eat my words.

Find me one that says that they didn't. There is no reason tho think that they didn't understand.



EwokUtopia, you're wasting your time comrade. I've been through it all in Live Chat with freakazoid before, he simply can't see the problem with the Adam and Eve story laugh.gif

Oh, so it was you. I thought that it might of been EwokUtopia because he had worded it almost the exact same way. :D

I can't see the problem because there is no problem, like I had said in the above posts.



I've been there quite a few times too. He really wouldn't know logically consistency if it shat in his eyes.

I thought we were friends, :*( :D Actually what conversations are you talking about?

[RevMARKSman]

Find me one that says that they didn't. There is no reason tho think that they didn't understand.

Just for laughs I'd like you to listen to (or read) "The Diaries of Adam and Eve" by Mark Twain.


There is no reason tho think that they didn't understand.

There is no reason to think they did. Burden of proof.


Actually what conversations are you talking about?

All of them.

[Pawn Power]

That whole story is blasphemous! :o

By the power of Apollo!

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 07:40 pm
Find me one that says that they didn't. There is no reason tho think that they didn't understand.

Up until they ate the fruit, they never set foot out of the Garden.
There was no death in the garden whatsoever.: The never would have had any experiance with death whatsoever.: they couldnt have had any concept of it.

Its just like some medieval motherfucker who never had access to a microscope couldnt possibly grasp the concept that their bodies are made of cells. Incidentally, those are the same people who invented all the bullshit theology that defends this bullshit religion despite blatant flaws in the story like this one.


Tell me, if they never had any contact with death, or experiance with it, and if they were so pure and innocent, how could they have possibly grasped the sentence "If you do this, you shall surely die"? Its like trying to explain global warming to a Roman.

Oh how I long for the day when we can look back on it as some silly mythology of the past.

EDIT- There are alot of plot holes in the bible that it provides nothing to explain, so I can no more find a passage explaining how they understood God's malicious threats than I can find one that explains how the snake moved about before God cast it to slither on its belly.

[freakazoid]

Just for laughs I'd like you to listen to (or read) "The Diaries of Adam and Eve" by Mark Twain.

Ok, is there a free version of it?



All of them.

You are not Jazzratt.



Tell me, if they never had any contact with death, or experiance with it, and if they were so pure and innocent, how could they have possibly grasped the sentence "If you do this, you shall surely die"? Its like trying to explain global warming to a Roman.

How do you know that God didn't explain it?


There are alot of plot holes in the bible that it provides nothing to explain, so I can no more find a passage explaining how they understood God's malicious threats than I can find one that explains how the snake moved about before God cast it to slither on its belly.

The snake had legs. It's not that hard to figure out. Interesting thing is is that scientists even say that snakes use to have legs and that they had lost them through evolution. If the Bible is just made up how would they of have known this?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:16 am


All of them.

You are not Jazzratt.
In a roundabout way he is mostly correct. Although some of the conversations - the one where you declared your support for the theory that the earth is something like six thousand years old and was made by a big bearded wizard up in the sky would be the most salient example.

[freakazoid]

and was made by a big bearded wizard up in the sky would be the most salient example.

I hardly doubt that He really is big bearded, :D What about the ones where I say that I am an anarchist, :P Man this is getting kind of off-topic.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:16 am
How do you know that God didn't explain it?

Even if he did explain it to them, there is now way they would have understood it. Its like explaining what the colour red looks like to a blind person. You can not explain what pain, suffering or death is to someone who has lived in a garden of perfection their entire lives, free from any experiances of suffering. You just cant do it, even if you are a malicious prick of a God.


The snake had legs. It's not that hard to figure out. Interesting thing is is that scientists even say that snakes use to have legs and that they had lost them through evolution. If the Bible is just made up how would they of have known this?

The ancestors of snakes who had legs were not snakes, but a different form of reptile. The concept of a snake with legs is absurd. How many legs did this snake have? did they go all along its long body?

Oh, I suppose god also took away mans tail because our distant ancestors had tails to, and since the bible is not made up, they would have known that too.

Tell me, were these legged ancient ancestors of snakes also able to speak and convince people to eat a magic fruit which doomed them to suffering?

How the fuck would a snake be able to speak, unless when god condemned them to slither he also condemned them to have thin forked toungues which are incapable of making speech as well?








At any rate, I am certain that God never explained death to Adam and Eve because it doesnt say he did in the Bible, and this story only exists in the Bible. Its not as if this really happened and the Bible only covers a small chunk of the story. If dialogue is left out of fiction, you usually assume it never occured.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by patton+March 28, 2007 05:04 pm--> (patton @ March 28, 2007 05:04 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 11:07 am

[email protected] 28, 2007 06:16 am


All of them.

You are not Jazzratt.
In a roundabout way he is mostly correct. Although some of the conversations - the one where you declared your support for the theory that the earth is something like six thousand years old and was made by a big bearded wizard up in the sky would be the most salient example.
Wow only 6 thousand years old??? :huh: [/b]
Some people will believe any old bullshit.