Iran Supports Indonesia

[Knight of Cydonia]

Jakarta - Agung Laksono, Speaker of the House of Representatives (DPR), has said that Iran is supporting Indonesia in developing nuclear technology.

“As long as it is used for peaceful purposes,” said Agung Laksono after welcoming the Chairman of the Islamic Republic of Iran's Parliament, Gh. A. Haddad Adel, at the Parliamentary complex on Thursday (02/15).

He also stated the support of the Indonesian parliament for the development of peaceful nuclear technology that Iran is currently running.

“I have observed Isfahan. There were no signs indicating that they were preparing weapons of mass destruction,” said Agung.

He went on to say there were no reasons to impose sanctions on Iran for its acts, adding “Diplomatic channels must be prioritized in solving matters.”

In addition, according to him, the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameini has issued a fatwa (legal decision) not permitting nuclear usage for weapons of mass destruction.

Agung has also mentioned that Iran respected Indonesia's attempts to support peace in the Middle East.
wow, even me didn't know that Indonesia had such a technology for nuclear development.

got any opinion?

[Black Dagger]

Just more exposure of the reactionary charater of Iran really. The last thing the millions of Indonesias colonial 'subjects' needs is a strong Indonesian state, big up to Iran for strengthening Indonesian colonialism~!

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by black [email protected] 16, 2007 02:45 pm
Just more exposure of the reactionary charater of Iran really. The last thing the millions of Indonesias colonial 'subjects' needs is a strong Indonesian state, big up to Iran for strengthening Indonesian colonialism~!
I really don't understand your point comrade. What are you trying to say ? :unsure:

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OP:

I don't think it is wise for Indonesia government with current geological conditions to build a nuclear reactor in first place and definitely to develope nuclear weapons.

[Cheung Mo]

So we now have capitalist anti-left wackos and Islamist anti-left wackos with/getting nukes. That's totally doubleplusungood.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Just more exposure of the reactionary charater of Iran really. The last thing the millions of Indonesias colonial 'subjects' needs is a strong Indonesian state, big up to Iran for strengthening Indonesian colonialism~!
and the point is? :unsure:


I don't think it is wise for Indonesia government with current geological conditions to build a nuclear reactor in first place and definitely to develope nuclear weapons.
is geological conditions are have a big effect on nuclear reactor?

[Kia]

Not really that surprising. Considering that Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world I'm not surprised that Iran is trying to strengthen ties between the two.




Just more exposure of the reactionary charater of Iran really. The last thing the millions of Indonesias colonial 'subjects' needs is a strong Indonesian state, big up to Iran for strengthening Indonesian colonialism~!

I think I get his point (ill give it a shot). Hes saying that this is not beneficial to the Indonesian people. Indonesia already has an oppressive government and by strengthening ties with Iran it is gaining a stronger grasp over its people. Basically as revolutionaries (whatever the word you prefer) we should be against such an action.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+--> (knight of cydonia)and the point is?[/b]


g.ram
I really don't understand your point comrade. What are you trying to say ?

Exactly what i DID say.

Indonesia is a sprawling colonial empire, the last thing the millions of people currently oppressed by this empire need is a stronger coloniser - Iran arming Indonesia with nuclear weapons does exactly this, it will allow Indonesia to intimidate islands seeking autonomy whilst at the same time deterring foreign powers from 'interfering' with this process of intimidiation and murder.

Though with that said at the moment Indonesia has the full-cooperation of the other large colonial force in the region, australia - and that is without nuclear weapons.

[Janus]

is geological conditions are have a big effect on nuclear reactor?
Yes, nuclear reactors need to be built on solid terrain and away from any potential environmental hazards (fault lines, volcanoes,etc.). I'm sure that Indonesia has such areas somewhere within their nation.

[The Anarchist Prince]

Hmmmmm, we could eventually be looking at a WWIII....... (Not to say we'd hit Indonesia or anything, but......hey, if we're spread across 4 different countries, with allies, fighting insurgents/terrorists/evil doers, etc, wouldn't that be considered a WW of sorts?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 11:34 am
potential environmental hazards (fault lines, volcanoes,etc.). I'm sure that Indonesia has such areas somewhere within their nation.
yes, in fact many of it.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Indonesia is a sprawling colonial empire, the last thing the millions of people currently oppressed by this empire need is a stronger coloniser - Iran arming Indonesia with nuclear weapons does exactly this, it will allow Indonesia to intimidate islands seeking autonomy whilst at the same time deterring foreign powers from 'interfering' with this process of intimidiation and murder.


Errr...Indonesia is a colonial empire? :blink:


Knight of Cydonia, how far do you agree with this analysis?

[Knight of Cydonia]

oh...i haven't notice it, until you show me.

eh Black Rose, Indonesia is not a colonial empire!!! it's a Republic country, where do you get that idea?

[Guerrilla22]

Why does everyone always assume when non-Western countries seek nuclear technology its for the purposes of building nuclear weapons? Countries outside North America and Europe are interested in nuclear power as means to advance their society also.

[Phalanx]

eh Black Rose, Indonesia is not a colonial empire!!! it's a Republic country, where do you get that idea?

Maybe he meant Java's hegemony over the region allows it to force its will with the other islands. I'm not too educated about Indonesia so I'm not sure.

It's good to see another third world country looking for this technology. Nuclear technology isn't something that you have to be a member of a club to get, it shoiuld be avaliable to everyone. The West is just worried because their power is erroding and nuclear technology is one of the last vestiges of their "supremacy".

[Janus]

Why does everyone always assume when non-Western countries seek nuclear technology its for the purposes of building nuclear weapons?
Because it's not that difficult to secretly pursue a covert nuclear weapons program while you're at it thus suspicions are easily aroused.

And as far as I can tell, legitimate accusations against Indonesia as a "colonial empire" can only be made based on it's record with its suppression of dissent in Aceh, East Timor,etc.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+February 17, 2007 09:15 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ February 17, 2007 09:15 pm)
Originally posted by Janus+February 17, 2007 11:34 am--> (Janus @ February 17, 2007 11:34 am) potential environmental hazards (fault lines, volcanoes,etc.). I'm sure that Indonesia has such areas somewhere within their nation. [/b]
yes, in fact many of it. [/b]

[email protected]
It's good to see another third world country looking for this technology. Nuclear technology isn't something that you have to be a member of a club to get, it shoiuld be avaliable to everyone. The West is just worried because their power is erroding and nuclear technology is one of the last vestiges of their "supremacy".

But the problem with Indonesia and nuclear technology is thatthe current seiismic activity in the place where those Island is insane. Any of you remember the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami ? IIRC almost for evry 3 months I hear in the news about earthquake of with quite significant magnitudes. It would be totally Insane for Indonesian Government to Install a nuclear reactor anywhere in those Islands for the time being.


black rose

Indonesia is a sprawling colonial empire, the last thing the millions of people currently oppressed by this empire need is a stronger coloniser - Iran arming Indonesia with nuclear weapons does exactly this, it will allow Indonesia to intimidate islands seeking autonomy whilst at the same time deterring foreign powers from 'interfering' with this process of intimidiation and murder.


First of all Iran itself has no nuclear weapons. And Indonesia is a capitalist country with multiple nationalities not a colonial empire. You have to see past your Islamophobia when you want to analyse Asian situation.

[Hiero]

Indonesia isn't really a "colonial empire". It is the remnants of other colonial empires. It clearly oppresses various nations, such as West Papua. This is not backed up by Iran, rather the USA, who own lots of mines in West Papua and sweat shops throughout the islands. Indonesia is really a proxy state of imperialism, rather then an imperialist state itself.

Indonesia, like most neo-colonies will follow the US lead. They may act independent but I doubt the Indonesia bourgioes are willing to piss off their imperialist investors and join the anti-USA camp. Unless there is a political change in Jakarta. Maybe this change has already occured.

[Guerrilla22]

I agree with Hiero. What this really boils down to is the US and Iran competing for influence in the world, the Muslim world at that. Its a competition the US will no doubt win, because the Indonesian government is not ideologically opposed to the US government and the US can simply offer much more than Iran can.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by SOS+--> (SOS)Errr...Indonesia is a colonial empire?[/b]

I was using rhetoric when i said 'colonial empire'; but yes the Indonesian state controls a vast area of islands, that is people and their lands - in the interests of the Indonesian state (that is in the way of their exploitation) and for the past few decades has been responsible for the brutal suppression of any Indigenous struggles for liberation in these lands.


Originally posted by KOC+--> (KOC)eh Black Rose, Indonesia is not a colonial empire!!! it's a Republic country, where do you get that idea?[/b]

The US is a republic, what of it?

Republics are not immune to using colonial domination, the US is famous for it.

Surely you aware of the independance struggles in Ache? West Papua etc?


Originally posted by guerrilla22
Why does everyone always assume when non-Western countries seek nuclear technology its for the purposes of building nuclear weapons? Countries outside North America and Europe are interested in nuclear power as means to advance their society also.

As has already been mentioned Indonesia is hardly suited (geographically speaking) to the development of nuclear power plants; so i dont think its a huge leap to make that logically, they'll be using their uranium for something other than power?


Originally posted by Janus
And as far as I can tell, legitimate accusations against Indonesia as a "colonial empire" can only be made based on it's record with its suppression of dissent in Aceh, East Timor,etc.

If by &#39;suppression of dissent in Aceh&#39; etc. you mean, brutal oppression of movements for national liberation/autonomy, then yeah <_<


Originally posted by g.ram
First of all Iran itself has no nuclear weapons.

Irrelevant, that does not prevent Indonesia from developing nuclear weapons themselves.


[email protected]
And Indonesia is a capitalist country with multiple nationalities not a colonial empire.

:lol:

So the Netherlands was just an imperialist country with multiple nationalities?

As Hiero mentioned Indonesia is really a fossil of european colonialism in the region.

Like the vast majority of nation-states created in the wake of european colonialism its borders are completely artificial, not historical, religious, cultural or even linguistic. However unlike most other states granted independance by the European powers the newly independant Indonesia was given control over other lands, other islands in this case, which were also previously controlled by european colonialists - rather than have these islands gain independance of their own, places such as Timor Leste & West Papua.

What has followed over the decades following Indonesian &#39;independance&#39; is a bloody struggle by various Indigenous peoples for autonomy from this new state. Indonesia however has fought bitterly to retain all of &#39;its&#39; territory, stamping out Indigenous resistance movements as much as is possible where they have developed --&#62; essentially anyone who opposed Indonesian control of the region. Indonesia is thus by force, maintaining its possession of this lands and it resources - to be exploited and to permit its exploitation by foreign capital.


g.ram
You have to see past your Islamophobia when you want to analyse Asian situation.

What an absurd thing to say, this discussion has absolutely fuck all to do with religion.

I suppose you could point where exactly im being islamophobic? Was it the part about denouncing Indonesian colonial domination? Oh sorry, i forgot its more apologetically termed &#39;multinationalism&#39; these days&#33; :rolleyes:

[Knight of Cydonia]

The US is a republic, what of it?
Republics are not immune to using colonial domination, the US is famous for it.
Surely you aware of the independance struggles in Ache? West Papua etc?
i thought the US is a state :unsure: and as Indonesia, according to it&#39;s name the Republic of Indonesia, so it is certainly a Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) and yes i&#39;m aware of the independence struggle in Aceh and West Papua.


Like the vast majority of nation-states created in the wake of european colonialism its borders are completely artificial, not historical, religious, cultural or even linguistic. However unlike most other states granted independance by the European powers the newly independant Indonesia was given control over other lands, other islands in this case, which were also previously controlled by european colonialists - rather than have these islands gain independance of their own, places such as Timor Leste & West Papua.
there is no more colonialist empire ruled Indonesia :rolleyes:

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by KOC+--> (KOC)thought the US is a state[/b]

It is a state with a republican system of government.


Originally posted by [email protected]

and as Indonesia, according to it&#39;s name the Republic of Indonesia, so it is certainly a Republic

Ok? I&#39;m still not sure of the relevance of Indonesia being a republic to this discussion. As i stated in my last reply, republic or not (it doesnt make a difference) the Indonesian state rules over 17 000+ islands as if it was ITS empire; that is, the government uses violence to keep Indigenous nations under its control and exploitation.


KOC
there is no more colonialist empire ruled Indonesia

The european colonialists have left, of course; but when the state of &#39;Indonesia&#39; declared its independance from the dutch it simply took possession of islands (from the europeans), which prior to european colonialism were separate Indigenous nations. Since that time it has waged a bloody struggle (at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives) to keep these islands as possessions rather than to allow the Indigenous peoples of these lands autonomy.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Indonesia is not imperialist; but there are oppressed nations within it. Alot of that comes from the period when Indonesia, Timor Leste, etc. were all run as one colony, "Dutch East Indies."

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 18, 2007 04:29 pm

i thought the US is a state :unsure: and as Indonesia, according to it&#39;s name the Republic of Indonesia, so it is certainly a Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia) and yes i&#39;m aware of the independence struggle in Aceh and West Papua.


formally the US is a republic...

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 19, 2007 02:42 am
Indonesia is not imperialist; but there are oppressed nations within it. Alot of that comes from the period when Indonesia, Timor Leste, etc. were all run as one colony, "Dutch East Indies."
I never said that Indonesia was imperialist...

[Guerrilla22]

As has already been mentioned Indonesia is hardly suited (geographically speaking) to the development of nuclear power plants; so i dont think its a huge leap to make that logically, they&#39;ll be using their uranium for something other than power?

Why would Indonesia want nuclear weapons? the country has no external enemies with nuclear weapons, so it makes absolutely no sense what so ever that they would want to develop nuclear weapons. Also that argument really doesn&#39;t make much sense, you need to first build a nuclear reactor in order to build nuclear weapons, so either way they&#39;d have to build nuclear facilities.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 09:28 am

As has already been mentioned Indonesia is hardly suited (geographically speaking) to the development of nuclear power plants; so i dont think its a huge leap to make that logically, they&#39;ll be using their uranium for something other than power?

Why would Indonesia want nuclear weapons? the country has no external enemies with nuclear weapons, so it makes absolutely no sense what so ever that they would want to develop nuclear weapons. Also that argument really doesn&#39;t make much sense, you need to first build a nuclear reactor in order to build nuclear weapons, so either way they&#39;d have to build nuclear facilities.
I dont know?

I dont know why they would want nuclear POWER at all - for the dangers posed by nations environment, as well as the prohibitive cost given that australia; which is much wealthier and in possession of the majority of the worlds known uranium supply; cant afford to institute a nuclear power plant program of its own...

[Guerrilla22]

In all likeyhood the Indonesian government has no use for nuclear technology. Like I said before its most likely a case of Iran trying to win influence in a country that the US has quite a bit on influence in.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Like I said before its most likely a case of Iran trying to win influence in a country that the US has quite a bit on influence in
and maybe Iran want to have some company against the US? coz Indonesia is the country with the largest Islam religion people in the world.maybe....

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 12:51 pm

Like I said before its most likely a case of Iran trying to win influence in a country that the US has quite a bit on influence in
and maybe Iran want to have some company against the US? coz Indonesia is the country with the largest Islam religion people in the world.maybe....
That&#39;s very true, KoC. Iran and Venezuela seem to be seeking mutual cooperation for the same reason. The US is really too powerful to take on alone.