Evolution not Revolution

[Chipotle]

As the subject states, that is the only way for a successful achievement of the goals of these non-conformists.

I love Rage Against the Machine too, but there is more to changing mankind than a revolution. As sophisticated as we like to think we are, we are just animals. We have instincts to survive and procreate. However we have desire. Because of desire we have innovation. The will to survive in the many different species has not brought forth innovation. Sure they have evolved, but evolved to adapt to the changes of the planet in order to preserve the species and survive.

From what I have read here, our desire can be considered a defect instead of a trait. But it is still bound deep within every being. In a classless system, what happens to competition and reward? Hell even animals have that. The male lion in the pride has to compete and the reward is his pack or pride, which will insure he is able to breed. However there are no possessions. We have instincts to gather possessions. Other animals have this trait as well. I believe many species will compete over such possessions.

In order for the ideals described on this site to be successful, it would require evolution not revolution. A revolution or change to communism will not work, unless we have evolved to not desire anything but what is necessary to ensure the survival of the species.

Lets say, something miraculous happened and communism is now dominant. It would have to be worldwide. There could not be a single continent that is any different, and all would have to follow the same social beliefs.

Religion: Would the Muslims think it fair that the Jews are entitled to the same? And the Christians, would they think its fair that the Jews and Muslims be entitled to the same. It is a classless system after all. However because of religious difference, some believe they are superior to others.

If communism became the way of the world today, what do we do with what is in the world today? I imagine that every home, automobile, piece of jewelry would have to be destroyed. There is an almost infinite list of items that would need to be destroyed. Who is to say who can live in certain lavish home, or drive certain cars? If we are all equal I will not tolerate someone driving by in a Lexus while I was designated to drive the peoples wagon.

Sex. Why is Brad Pitt able to bone Angelina Jolie? What makes him special? Why should he have what I cant? What is better about him? Is it just a matter of choice or appearance? What would I have to do in order to get what he has? Do I have to make myself more attractive? Do I need to have a more lavish nest and possessions to offer? Ohh and there are many species that do this as well to attract a mate.

In this classless state, who will be making the decisions? Why do they get to make the decisions? I don’t agree with one of the decisions they made and think I can make a better decision, so why cant I be a part of the process? I certainly hope that these decision makers aren’t getting any rewards. They shouldn’t be any different that me. They shouldn’t get any special treatment than I do. Since they have more work to do than say me who contributes to society by flipping hamburgers, I hope they don’t have people that work for them and do some of their work. Well that would seem like they could be classified as group that gets more than where I am classified.

And what about this. No matter what you say the rules are, I just don’t feel like doing much of anything. Why should I have to work? Yeah I know it’s a requirement of society. Actually now that I think of it, I think that instead of picking up trash, I should be able to just make decisions. This is a classless society; you can’t dare classify me as a garbage person. If so, how come? What makes me inferior? If I am inferior, why doesn’t society give me what I need to be equal?

Innovation: What the fuck would be the point of doing anything, if there is no reward? Let me guess, to make life easier? I need to bust my ass so some dumb lazy douche bag that doesn’t do shit but pick up gum from park benches can enjoy some comfort. And what do I get out of it? Nothing, but to enjoy what I have created? Something I have worked for my entire life developing. But there has been a revolution and someone in a position says that I get nothing for it though it will change the lives of everyone.

I can keep going on and on here. People need to realize that there are classes for a reason. People are different. Animals are different. There are some people that believe they don’t have to do a damn thing in society and deserve what everyone else has. People that complain about equality are called "have nots." Some people will cheat, steal, and murder to get what others have. Then there are those that will try to better themselves, contribute. They understand that they are in control of their destiny. Differences are what define our identity. We look different, smell different, and have different desires and capabilities. You cannot take everything and shove it into a mold and expect it to fit. There is no universal mold that will shape and change everything to be the same. In a perfect world this would work, but we are not perfect! And never will be! Our differences define us. You can’t be uniform with differences.

[MrDoom]

I prefer to think of proletarian revolution and the subsequent destruction of the bourgeoisie as natural selection in action.

[colorlessman]

In a classless system, what happens to competition and reward? Hell even animals have that.

What is true for other animals is not true for humans. Competition and reward are learned behaviors. Humans have evolved to be cooperative creatures if it was not for this none of us will be here today. Our true nature is suppressed to support our capitalistic system.


We have instincts to gather possessions.

Learned behavior associated with happiness to encourage consumerism

You don't understand communism. Such things are useless, they aren't productive assets. Communism is not about abolishing personal property, it is about abolishing private property. Big difference. Others don't want your shit because they have different taste.


Sex. Why is Brad Pitt
He is rich and our society favors, power, money and fame. If you have that you can do what he does.


In this classless state, who will be making the decisions?
No one but you.


Why should I have to work?
To provide for yourself.


Innovation: What the fuck would be the point of doing anything, if there is no reward?

Personal joy, pleasure, fun, and curiosity. What else do you want?


People need to realize that there are classes for a reason. People are different

So classes exist because people are different? Not any other reasons?


People that complain about equality are called "have nots.

In nature there are no have nots because nature provides all its creatures with the means to life. Therefore so called "have nots" have every right to complain about their condition.


"Some people will cheat, steal, and murder to get what others have. "

Sure in our current society. There will be no need in a communist society for such behavior because you will have everything you want and need not what advertising tells you need and want.


In a perfect world this would work, but we are not perfect! And never will be! Our differences define us.

Nature does not produce imperfection. Yes our differences do define us, but do you see such differences expressed in our current society? In our current society people are like zombies, they think they same, act the same and do the same.

[razboz]

Text book anti-communism. :rolleyes:

Restrict much?

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Just another douche coming here to rip on communism when they obviously dont understand it. Have you read anything by Marx? If you had, surely most of your questions would of been answered.

[cb9's_unity]

I really don't have the time to answer this guy but he looks at communism as a purley ideological political belifief. Did karl marx sit down and think "i want to create a perfect world were everyone loves eachother and never dissagrees"... of course not. Marx was a scientific socialist who layed down a very educated guess at what the future will look.

So don't pass the words proletait or bourgeoisie by him cause has will have no clue what they are or what role they play with eachother. Chipotle you should do a search to find threads like this. Others new anti-communists come and do the same thing as you, make a general statement and then ask a ton of questions.

Please read about communism from the communist perspective you will find it is far different than anything you have ever heard about it.

[Chipotle]

Ok I'll read. And come back to this. But I still think the title applies. We have learned behavior since the begining of our existence. This learned behavior, could be called evolution. In order to instill these extreme leftist views on the worlds population, would require much violence and loss of life.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 02:59 pm
Ok I'll read. And come back to this. But I still think the title applies. We have learned behavior since the begining of our existence. This learned behavior, could be called evolution. In order to instill these extreme leftist views on the worlds population, would require much violence and loss of life.
To link oneself with the masses, one must act in accordance with the needs and wishes of the masses. All work done for the masses must start from their needs and not from the desire of any individual, however well-intentioned. It often happens that objectively the masses need a certain change, but subjectively they are not yet conscious of the need, not yet willing or determined to make the change. In such cases, we should wait patiently. We should not make the change until, through our work, most of the masses have become conscious of the need and are willing and determined to carry it out. Otherwise we shall isolate ourselves from the masses. Unless they are conscious and willing any kind of work that requires their participation will turn out to be a mere formality and will fail. -- Mao Tsetung

[BobKKKindle$]

This is a classless society; you can’t dare classify me as a garbage person. If so, how come? What makes me inferior? If I am inferior, why doesn’t society give me what I need to be equal?

Even if you were a garbage worker, you would still have access to the same goods and services as everyone else - Communism is not based on commodity production (the production of goods for the purpose of exchange in order to yield a profit for the capitalist) but rather, under communism, goods will be distributed on the basis of need. However, under communism, tasks that no-one would voluntarily select would either be shared equally across the community or would, when possible, be automated.


And what about this. No matter what you say the rules are, I just don’t feel like doing much of anything. Why should I have to work?

Under Socialism there will be a progressive reduction in the duration of the working week, as the introduction of technical innovation into production will not signify a cause of alarm for displaced workers who are not unable to sell their labour power, but rather an advantage that will allow every worker to spend more time on the activities that they enjoy.

[encephalon]

Revolution is a pre-requisite of evolution. Any evolutionary change that matters--that is, a change that gives an organism any advantage whatsoever, and thus carried into the future--is by its very nature revolutionary. Evolution doesn't exist without revolution, no matter how abhorrent people might find the idea of radical change.

[colonelguppy]

chipotle is soooo delicous, i think i'm going to go get some....

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Revolution is an intrinsic aspect in the evolution of human society. It is inevitable in class society and you are an idiot.

[Rasta Sapian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 05:59 pm
Ok I'll read. And come back to this. But I still think the title applies. We have learned behavior since the begining of our existence. This learned behavior, could be called evolution. In order to instill these extreme leftist views on the worlds population, would require much violence and loss of life.
Chipotle, your thoughts make sense, yes, people are animals, and we use our animalistic ways to survive and even succeed in life, this is the stuggle of classes.

Evolution is the realization of both a mental and physical progress for mankind.

However, a revolution (paridigm of change) could result in the overall re-education of the masses:
1
you can look at it in these terms, ok, the domesticated dog was once a wild wolf or wild dog like ancestor dingo sourt of beast and is now mans best friend.

we have now successfully domesticated foxes as well, through controlled breeding.
2
Look at a few simple animals on the planet, bees and ants for example, they live in colonies hives or nests whatever, they are the workers equal in the end goal, which is of course working for the better of everyone and the overall well being of the colony. queen etc.

This reminds me of our own fuedalist past with monarches, there were still aristocrats, peasents, and differences in the roles and lives of the people

but i bet that bees and ants are different also, some may work harder, some may choose different flowers etc.

anyway just some thoughts on existance

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Chipotle
As sophisticated as we like to think we are, we are just animals. We have instincts to survive and procreate. However we have desire.

Having 'desire' doesn't make us unique. We have very specific desires because we are self-aware, sentient and intelligent beings. That combined with specific characteristics in our anatomy, such as advanced gripping tools (hands) and the ability to speak have made innovations possible and elevated us far above other species to such a degree that we can't simply be lumped together with them.


From what I have read here, our desire can be considered a defect instead of a trait.

I don't know whose posts you have been reading.. The communist position is that we can fulfill our desires by creating an abundant society through cooperation, working together and planning rationally to achieve it. In no way is communism ascetic, or demonises desire.


In a classless system, what happens to competition and reward?

Instead of competing against each other we would compete together. Even though the basic material needs and survival of everyone would be ensured as a number one priorioty, those working particularly hard to improve society would of course enjoy everyones respect to an unusually high degree. And it is respect we desire most of all when it comes to social relations -- something money grants in capitalism, and being a good comrade will grant in communism. :)


In order for the ideals described on this site to be successful, it would require evolution not revolution. A revolution or change to communism will not work, unless we have evolved to not desire anything but what is necessary to ensure the survival of the species.

Like I said, communism isn't ascetic in any way -- an abundant, hightech classless society would give us the opportunity not only to ensure the survival of individuals, but also to satisfy their individual desires (as long as they are even close to realistic). So that's mierda de toro.


Lets say, something miraculous happened and communism is now dominant. It would have to be worldwide. There could not be a single continent that is any different, and all would have to follow the same social beliefs.

The term is 'world revolution'. And it's an inevitable future development according to historical materialism.


Religion: Would the Muslims think it fair that the Jews are entitled to the same? And the Christians, would they think its fair that the Jews and Muslims be entitled to the same. It is a classless system after all. However because of religious difference, some believe they are superior to others.

Yes, religion is inheritly reactionary in many ways. While communism will make it superfluous and eventually disappear from the face of the earth, I'm one of those communists who think it needs to be combatted fiercely and relentlessly both before and after the revolution.

Not only are the truly religious, especially the clergy, very likely to participate in counterrevolutionary activity should the revolution take a course that collides with their rapture; every child has the right to a materialist worldview, to be taught scientific facts and nothing else as truth. Anything else is abuse.


If communism became the way of the world today, what do we do with what is in the world today? I imagine that every home, automobile, piece of jewelry would have to be destroyed. There is an almost infinite list of items that would need to be destroyed. Who is to say who can live in certain lavish home, or drive certain cars? If we are all equal I will not tolerate someone driving by in a Lexus while I was designated to drive the peoples wagon.

Obviously, nothing would be destroyed -- instead those in need would be provided with new goods when possible, and existing stuff would be redistributed in an equal way. I'm beginning to doubt your seriousness.


Sex. Why is Brad Pitt able to bone Angelina Jolie?

Because Jolie chose to let him. That's all that matters.


What makes him special? Why should he have what I cant? What is better about him? Is it just a matter of choice or appearance? What would I have to do in order to get what he has? Do I have to make myself more attractive? Do I need to have a more lavish nest and possessions to offer? Ohh and there are many species that do this as well to attract a mate.

In capitalism wealth is often seen as a bonus when people look for a partner, because it provides safety and well being in this society. In a communist one, on the other hand, that would not be a case. The society would do that..


In this classless state

Communism is not only classless, but also stateless.


who will be making the decisions?

Depends on the decision -- but the short answer would be those concerned. There will be no state, corporations or other 'authorities' who could make decisions that override people's interests.


Why do they get to make the decisions?

Why would someone the issue doesn't concern get to do it, and why would they want to, in an equal society?


Innovation: What the fuck would be the point of doing anything, if there is no reward? Let me guess, to make life easier? I need to bust my ass so some dumb lazy douche bag that doesn’t do shit but pick up gum from park benches can enjoy some comfort. And what do I get out of it? Nothing, but to enjoy what I have created? Something I have worked for my entire life developing. But there has been a revolution and someone in a position says that I get nothing for it though it will change the lives of everyone.

People having to 'bust their asses' is something characteristic to our current system, capitalism. It isn't profitable to hire people to work only an hour or two a day. In communism work could be distributed in such a way that it wouldn't dominate our everyday lives like it does now.

Also, in the future much of todays labor will be likely automated anyway -- a development bound create unemployment and misery in capitalism, but comfort in communism..


I can keep going on and on here. People need to realize that there are classes for a reason.

Indeed. And that reason is that we are stuck with an obsolete form of society. This is why a communistic revolution is needed.

Considering the topic title, fly pan ama put it quite well:


Revolution is an intrinsic aspect in the evolution of human society. It is inevitable in class society and you are an idiot.

[Fawkes]

I love Rage Against the Machine too
You know, we don't all masturbate to pictures of Zach de la Rocha standing nude on stage, right?

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 10:04 pm
I love Rage Against the Machine too, but there is more to changing mankind than a revolution. As sophisticated as we like to think we are, we are just animals. We have instincts to survive and procreate. However we have desire. Because of desire we have innovation. The will to survive in the many different species has not brought forth innovation. Sure they have evolved, but evolved to adapt to the changes of the planet in order to preserve the species and survive.

From what I have read here, our desire can be considered a defect instead of a trait. But it is still bound deep within every being. In a classless system, what happens to competition and reward? Hell even animals have that. The male lion in the pride has to compete and the reward is his pack or pride, which will insure he is able to breed. However there are no possessions. We have instincts to gather possessions. Other animals have this trait as well. I believe many species will compete over such possessions.

In order for the ideals described on this site to be successful, it would require evolution not revolution. A revolution or change to communism will not work, unless we have evolved to not desire anything but what is necessary to ensure the survival of the species.
You show a distinct misunderstanding of psychology. Our relationship with material is a social distinction - that is, society tells us to be greedy, etc.

Competion will always exist, but it is the nature of our relationship to material that dictates the relevance of competition. If material gain is not a result of competition, as it would be if greed became a shameful and uncommon trait, than it would cause a contradiction.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 10:04 pm
I love Rage Against the Machine too, but...
Man, thats a deep way to begin a political testament. I mean, what better source of leftist thinking is there than Rage Against the Machine? I think I speak for the entire board that when the revolution comes, it will be anti-flag powered. :D

Actually, you have hit at one of my problems with this site, I do find that alot of posters here are young white suburban males looking for an anti-flag revolution. It may surprise you, but Ive never really liked Rage Against the Machine, Anti-Flag, System of a Down, or any of that other revpop.

Anyway, not all of us are here because of what our favourite musicians tell us what to think, some of us have actually found leftist thought without their help.