The need for militant Anti-Theism

[razboz]

The theists are not afraid to push their dangerous beliefs everywhere. On the billboards, on the sides of buses, in our TVs our radios our newspapers. Why should the Atheists do any different. Theism is dangerous. it leads to death, carnage and irrational behavior. This is a proven fact. Further more theism is used to control the masses, men who’s interests are in making more money and keeping the vast unwashed masses poor. So why should these people be allowed more attention and those who seek rationality and common sense.? Should not all those who wish to defend their freedoms and their very lives take steps to destroy theism and the dangerous deviancies in inevitably causes? Why should people who speak hate in the name of Nazism be condemn and ostracized while those who speak hate in the name of [insert deity here] be treated any differently? These people are dangerous, and wish to destroy us in order to preserve their precious power…

The Theists have no qualms about destroying atheists, atheists being nothing better than animals to them, Why should we have the same reservations? Why should we fight capitalism and not theism on the same foot, with the same force and the same vivacity? Religion and the Status Quo have gone hand in hand….

And I can see all you theists a mile away coming along with your silly little claims that these are just a few extremists: they are not few and they are not disconnected form your religion. We can take a parallel with Nazism: now days many neos don’t actually go out an kill jews or black people or gays or whatever. Now adays they put suits on and get into parliament. However their end goal is still the same. Exactly the same logic can be applied to religious folk. Though many manage to hide themselves under a veneer of respectability, they are still bible/torah/quran /other book of your choice bashing extremists waiting to happen. Its sides of the same coin. If an ideology leads to extremism that ends up in irrational violent and overall very negative behavior, why should it be allowed to exist in our communities our schools and our countries?

I advocate militant anti-theism in order to bring about a little order and common sense, and stop extremist fanatics in their tracks, and quell dangerous and destructive ideas in the bud.

[chimx]

I think you are confusing a militant minority of fundamentalists with an otherwise peaceful population of spiritual folk. Why not confront the prejudices of the hostile minority instead of making sweeping generalizations?

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 02:11 pm
I think you are confusing a militant minority of fundamentalists with an otherwise peaceful population of spiritual folk. Why not confront the prejudices of the hostile minority instead of making sweeping generalizations?
that would make way to much sense. their billboard adds will be the end of all of us!

[ichneumon]

screw that, we need militant anti-fanaticism, including fanatical communists. fanaticism is a sickness. wake up.

[Ele'ill]

If an ideology leads to extremism that ends up in irrational violent and overall very negative behavior, why should it be allowed to exist in our communities our schools and our countries? I advocate militant anti-theism in order to bring about a little order and common sense, and stop extremist fanatics in their tracks, and quell dangerous and destructive ideas in the bud.

This would go well.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

screw that, we need militant anti-fanaticism, including fanatical communists. fanaticism is a sickness. wake up.
Millitant anti-fanaticism could degenerate into another kind of fanaticism if you aren't careful.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 03:17 pm
I advocate militant anti-theism in order to bring about a little order and common sense, and stop extremist fanatics in their tracks, and quell dangerous and destructive ideas in the bud.
A man after my own heart. Only don't shout about it, otherwise the Marxists might try and eat you for it.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 08:11 pm
I think you are confusing a militant minority of fundamentalists with an otherwise peaceful population of spiritual folk. Why not confront the prejudices of the hostile minority instead of making sweeping generalizations?
I think direct action against churches etc is a justified form of class protest.

[razboz]

“
Originally posted by chimx+--> (chimx)I think you are confusing a militant minority of fundamentalists with an otherwise peaceful population of spiritual folk. Why not confront the prejudices of the hostile minority instead of making sweeping generalizations?[/b]
“

I too used to think that Chimx. But we must realize that there are not two groups of religious people. It Is not divided between the fanatics and the others, which are basically okay. This is afalse assumption based on propaganda put out by the latter. Inddeed the fanatics and the non fanatics form one homgenous group which is united by religion against atheism and other relgions. If it can be said that these “peaceful spiritual folk” are not down there killing the infidels, they ARE supporting the fanatics. And this is something we must realize. A small fanatic fringe can in no way gain power like it has without the support of the vast silent masses, or the tacit approval of many. Where do you think they get their money, their votes and their parishioners. These are not an isolated lunatic fringe. They are well embedded in our society and have agents at every level of our community. It could be your neighbour, with his non-threatening knit pull-overs. It could be that hot girl you’ve always had a crush on and who attends strange Sunday meetings. It could be the middle aged woman or the wife-beating redneck or the old woman with the fat cat… All these people are all cogs of one giant machine. They are not isolated from the fanatics. They are the ones who (to make themselves feel better about their moral hypocrisy) support the fanatics.They try to distance themselves, say these are fanatics, while sitting watching the sermons on the TV. But under their breath they say “well if they don’t say gays are evil, who will? If they don’t attack this sinful world, who will?” They need the fanatics in order to maintain the illusion that their morals their ethics, their thinking and way of life are not corrupt and morally unsustainable.


Originally posted by [email protected]
that would make way to much sense. their billboard adds will be the end of all of us!

The adds are just one way they are waging their war. These are typical methods. We saw rthem In Germany in 1933. On the bill boards we red “Stop the Bolshevik Jews! List 8 – NSDAP!” And people walked by and said “it cant be so bad can it? Surely someone needs to say it.Surely they cant be so wrong…” The same people who now look at the mad muslim cleric, his beard covered with spit call for Jihad. The same who watch as the mad Pastor his hands clutching and clawing at some illusory dream of faith call for death to all Gays. The same who go back home at night and think “well surely it cant be so bad. Surely someone needs to say it…”

These are not isolated fringe fanatics. This is a war and the fanatics are but soldiers. Soldiers cannot act without aid a civilian population helping them, supporting them and providing material and moral assistance and support. We must cut off this support in order to halt the march of fanatcism. We must resist or we shall be crushed under the steel boot of oppression, crushed while the holy man whispers words of God and comfort in our ears.


TAT
I think direct action against churches etc is a justified form of class protest.

Music to my ears.

[razboz]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 03:15 pm
So they let you back into the commie side razboz? Right before i was going to start talking to you about the glories of capitalism and get you switch sides. :D
<_< hehe not a chance patton.

But can i interest you in these pamphlets? (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/) :lol:

[Vargha Poralli]

I think direct action against churches etc is a justified form of class protest.

Jacobins did it during the Reign of Terror.Churches became center for deism and Cult of reason(Atheism). Which dominates today&#39;s French people Deism or Atheism ?

Stalin also did it during his counter-revolution and replaced church with his own cult of personality. Where does today&#39;s Russia stand ? Czar Nikolay and his Family members were made " Saints" :blink: .


A man after my own heart. Only don&#39;t shout about it, otherwise the Marxists might try and eat you for it.

You are wrong, many Marxists still support your stance They, like you have not Learned from History, that without abolishing the material conditions that gives power to religion it cannot be erased by force. We better concentrate on that rather than destroying Churches,Mosques,Temples etc.,


Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Religion will only cease to exist completely with the development of the socialist system, that is, when technology frees people from degrading forms of dependency on nature, and amid social relations that are no longer mysterious, which are completely transparent and do not oppress people.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 08:36 pm
screw that, we need militant anti-fanaticism, including fanatical communists. fanaticism is a sickness. wake up.
Machevelli once wrote that people that are neutral or in the middle seeking to please everyone, in the end they please no one and help no one.

Fanatics are defenders of what (they view) to be the truth.

"Moderates" are just lazy people who don&#39;t give a damn about the world and say that just so people won&#39;t bother them.

[razboz]

g.ram your reaction is very surprising coming from a self styled "revolutionary"

How can you use the old "it didnt work int he past so it wont work in the future" in this forum? Im flabergasted at such hypocrisy.

Furthermore certain differences exist in between those examples you gave and the situation i detail now. Now we are under attack. It is our right and obligation to defend ourselves. They have declared war on us and they will not halt until we all either destryed or converted. I proclaim my right to live free of religion and will defend my right, with fire and guns if i must. This is gods army vs. us, and we will lose if we are subject to any moral relativism, cowardice or hypocrisy.

[KC]

Know what&#39;s better? Class struggle.


This whole concept reaks of a liberal outlook, similar to the "war on drugs" or the "war on gangs" or some such shit. What you (and all liberals) fail to realize is that you can&#39;t get rid of the problem until you get rid of what&#39;s causing it.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by razboz+February 14, 2007 10:38 pm--> (razboz &#064; February 14, 2007 10:38 pm) g.ram your reaction is very surprising coming from a self styled "revolutionary"

How can you use the old "it didnt work int he past so it wont work in the future" in this forum? Im flabergasted at such hypocrisy.

Furthermore certain differences exist in between those examples you gave and the situation i detail now. Now we are under attack. It is our right and obligation to defend ourselves. They have declared war on us and they will not halt until we all either destryed or converted. I proclaim my right to live free of religion and will defend my right, with fire and guns if i must. This is gods army vs. us, and we will lose if we are subject to any moral relativism, cowardice or hypocrisy. [/b]

g.ram your reaction is very surprising coming from a self styled "revolutionary"


Why ? Should a "revolutionary" follow certain well laid out rules and regulations ?



How can you use the old "it didnt work int he past so it wont work in the future" in this forum? Im flabergasted at such hypocrisy.

I am not saying just that iam saying that it had been counter productive to our causes in the past so we better learn from past revolutionaries.



Furthermore certain differences exist in between those examples you gave and the situation i detail now. Now we are under attack. It is our right and obligation to defend ourselves. They have declared war on us and they will not halt until we all either destryed or converted. I proclaim my right to live free of religion and will defend my right, with fire and guns if i must. This is gods army vs. us, and we will lose if we are subject to any moral relativism, cowardice or hypocrisy.

Cry in what ever way you can but this is reality. Without abolishment of material conditions that empowers religion, makes people to believe in it we CANNOT erase it from the society.


Zampano
This whole concept reaks of a liberal outlook, similar to the "war on drugs" or the "war on gangs" or some such shit. What you (and all liberals) fail to realize is that you can&#39;t get rid of the problem until you get rid of what&#39;s causing it.

Exactly what I am trying to say.

[ichneumon]

Machevelli once wrote that people that are neutral or in the middle seeking to please everyone, in the end they please no one and help no one.

"Moderates" are just lazy people who don&#39;t give a damn about the world and say that just so people won&#39;t bother them.

this is nonsense. people who are comfortable agnostic are lazy? i&#39;d call them well-adjusted. some of us try to please no one, and to convince no one. i don&#39;t give a shit about what you believe, but how you act. if worshipping the Pasta Monster makes you a good person, okay by me. if being a buddhist vegetarian green-socialist makes you a raving fanatic, you need to find something else.

given an audience of people who are undecided about an issue, with two debaters. one runs around raving, the other is calm and rational. which do they believe?

fanatics confuse ideology with I. you are not your beliefs. you can change them and not die. when they are attacked, it doesn&#39;t hurt you.

when someone makes a wide ranging philosophical statement to me, it&#39;s my practice to first compliment the person, then make a joke about the philosophy. if the person laughs, i will pay attention. if they get upset, i will look down and away, arms at my side and back away slowly. this is how you deal with an insane monkey. it&#39;s only common sense.


Fanatics are defenders of what (they view) to be the truth.

and they are ALL WRONG. they have found the One Holy Truth and transferred their identity to that idea. bluck.

"Do not think that the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to recieve other&#39;s viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."

-Thich Nhat Hahn

[razboz]

Originally posted by Zampanò@February 14, 2007 05:45 pm
Know what&#39;s better? Class struggle.


This whole concept reaks of a liberal outlook, similar to the "war on drugs" or the "war on gangs" or some such shit. What you (and all liberals) fail to realize is that you can&#39;t get rid of the problem until you get rid of what&#39;s causing it.
Look you are confusing this with my other thread on religion, the should religion be illegalised one.

I am not talking about getting rid of religion. I am talking about fighting this attack on our rights our freedoms and our very lives. This is not a bunch of long heard preachers in minnesota talking about converting us. These are serious, violent organised and very very powerfull men who will stop at nothing to have their views imposed over the lot of us, at the expense, if necessary, of our lives and freedoms. We are at war, and this is not a war of our chosing. They have already declared war on us. Now the ball is in our camp. Will we do like some of you are advocating and lower our arms or will get down there and fight this

If anyone here is liberal its you who want us to surrender before the first battle has begun. It is you the spineless, sniveling limp-wristed,reformist little wimps that would have us give up our rights our freedom and our lives for your idiotic dogmatism.

YOu must realise that this IS a part of the class struggle and we ARE already losing it. If we dont fight them on EVERY level we will lose, and we will be crushed.

You want to get rid of capitalism big boy? Well good luck doing that with your face pressed in the mud by a warrior of god. When your chewing dirt then you&#39;ll think "hey, why didnt i fight these guys earlier". Indeed you are the liberal here. And i sincerely hope not everyone has the same cowardly outlook as you do.

Oh and calling me (of all people) a liberal because i say there is a war on is completely and uterly two-faced and hypocritical. Seriously you want class warfare? Well your a liberal. What kind of idiotic logic is that?

Now you can all sit there and moan because i am too fanatical. Fine by me. But dont ever come and say you are a revolutionary of ANY kind. Condemning all fanatics is the worst thing you could do. We need fanaticism, like we need the proletariat. No one is gonna get anywhere if we sit down and talk about with the bosses, cops and politicians. There&#39;s a name for that kind of person and thats a reformist. They get sent to OI. Which is convenient because we&#39;re already there....


Cry in what ever way you can but this is reality. Without abolishment of material conditions that empowers religion, makes people to believe in it we CANNOT erase it from the society.

i am not trying to erase anything. I am trying to defend our rights as human beings in the face of men and women who would happily kill us. You want me to fight capitalism fine. YOull find me up there with the molotov cocktail on top of the bloody barricade singing "Bandera Rossa". But i aint gonna be able to do that if im sent to a prison for being an atheist am i?

[KC]

I am not talking about getting rid of religion. I am talking about fighting this attack on our rights our freedoms and our very lives. This is not a bunch of long heard preachers in minnesota talking about converting us. These are serious, violent organised and very very powerfull men who will stop at nothing to have their views imposed over the lot of us, at the expense, if necessary, of our lives and freedoms. We are at war, and this is not a war of our chosing. They have already declared war on us. Now the ball is in our camp. Will we do like some of you are advocating and lower our arms or will get down there and fight this

So this isn&#39;t about religion, then...



If anyone here is liberal its you who want us to surrender before the first battle has begun. It is you the spineless, sniveling limp-wristed,reformist little wimps that would have us give up our rights our freedom and our lives for your idiotic dogmatism.

YOu must realise that this IS a part of the class struggle and we ARE already losing it. If we dont fight them on EVERY level we will lose, and we will be crushed.

You want to get rid of capitalism big boy? Well good luck doing that with your face pressed in the mud by a warrior of god. When your chewing dirt then you&#39;ll think "hey, why didnt i fight these guys earlier". Indeed you are the liberal here. And i sincerely hope not everyone has the same cowardly outlook as you do.

Oh and calling me (of all people) a liberal because i say there is a war on is completely and uterly two-faced and hypocritical. Seriously you want class warfare? Well your a liberal. What kind of idiotic logic is that

I know that term got you all flustered, but you can&#39;t just go throwing it around aimlessly. Your outlook that we should "fight religion," whether you said it here or in another thread, comes from that of a liberal outlook. I&#39;m not "name-calling"; I&#39;m telling you where your outlook comes from based on an analysis of your assertions and propositions. If you can&#39;t handle that then shut up, because the name-calling thing is seriously childish.


Now you can all sit there and moan because i am too fanatical. Fine by me. But dont ever come and say you are a revolutionary of ANY kind. Condemning all fanatics is the worst thing you could do. We need fanaticism, like we need the proletariat. No one is gonna get anywhere if we sit down and talk about with the bosses, cops and politicians. There&#39;s a name for that kind of person and thats a reformist. They get sent to OI. Which is convenient because we&#39;re already there....

I don&#39;t think I said anything about fanaticism. I was criticizing your views because they&#39;re wrong, not because they&#39;re "too fanatical".


i am not trying to erase anything. I am trying to defend our rights as human beings in the face of men and women who would happily kill us. You want me to fight capitalism fine. YOull find me up there with the molotov cocktail on top of the bloody barricade singing "Bandera Rossa". But i aint gonna be able to do that if im sent to a prison for being an atheist am i?

Again, the fact that you confuse this kind of political action with religion itself shows the fact that you fail to comprehend a materialist outlook on this subject. Religion isn&#39;t the problem here; it&#39;s those that are attempting to enact these political actions that are.

[razboz]

Originally posted by Zampano
So this isn&#39;t about religion, then...

No it ctually isnt. It is about those who use religion to firther their aims. But religion is their weapon, their platform and their way of life. They are inexorably tied to religion. Religion is what drives them, what motivates them.


Again, the fact that you confuse this kind of political action with religion itself shows the fact that you fail to comprehend a materialist outlook on this subject. Religion isn&#39;t the problem here; it&#39;s those that are attempting to enact these political actions that are.

Regardless of why these people do what they do, they are tied up with religion so closely that we cannot fight one without fighting the other. You see if we do not identify why they ifight us and ight them right back, how on earth will we manage to identify the significant targets and destroy them? They wish to destroy us and know very well who to get. It is the atheists and the infidels. As it turns out we (that is revolutionary leftists) are overwhelmingly atheistic. They will destroy us, on way or another.

Now you can sit there and look at this through your materialistic sunglasses. Or you cna wake up smell the coffee and sucker punch the fundametalists before they get you. You see if you remain disconnected from reality and try to apply theretical ideas on it you wont really be able to defend yourself.


I know that term got you all flustered, but you can&#39;t just go throwing it around aimlessly. Your outlook that we should "fight religion," whether you said it here or in another thread, comes from that of a liberal outlook. I&#39;m not "name-calling"; I&#39;m telling you where your outlook comes from based on an analysis of your assertions and propositions. If you can&#39;t handle that then shut up, because the name-calling thing is seriously childish.


You started it <_<

Your using "liberal" in a pejorative sense (which by the way is philological faux pas) to imply that i am influenced from the traditional, reformist left. You are name calling. Why in that case should you be calling me that when in theory all revolutionary leftists are liberals? That would imply you have nothing to do on these forums...


I don&#39;t think I said anything about fanaticism. I was criticizing your views because they&#39;re wrong, not because they&#39;re "too fanatical".

I was responding to ichneumon, not you Zampano.

[KC]

No it ctually isnt. It is about those who use religion to firther their aims. But religion is their weapon, their platform and their way of life. They are inexorably tied to religion. Religion is what drives them, what motivates them.

Actually, religion is just one tool they use to rationalize what they do. If they didn&#39;t have religion they&#39;d find something else.


Regardless of why these people do what they do, they are tied up with religion so closely that we cannot fight one without fighting the other. You see if we do not identify why they ifight us and ight them right back, how on earth will we manage to identify the significant targets and destroy them? They wish to destroy us and know very well who to get. It is the atheists and the infidels. As it turns out we (that is revolutionary leftists) are overwhelmingly atheistic. They will destroy us, on way or another.

It&#39;s pretty easy to separate them from religion itself so I&#39;m not exactly sure what you&#39;re talking about. Plus, by attacking religion you&#39;d be alienating religious comrades.


Now you can sit there and look at this through your materialistic sunglasses. Or you cna wake up smell the coffee and sucker punch the fundametalists before they get you. You see if you remain disconnected from reality and try to apply theretical ideas on it you wont really be able to defend yourself.

I&#39;ll stick with my "materialistic sunglasses" then. I&#39;d rather be right and actually change society for the better than be wrong just so I can punch someone.



Your using "liberal" in a pejorative sense (which by the way is philological faux pas) to imply that i am influenced from the traditional, reformist left. You are name calling. Why in that case should you be calling me that when in theory all revolutionary leftists are liberals? That would imply you have nothing to do on these forums...

No I&#39;m not. I&#39;m using it to show that your outlook is that of a liberal and not of a materialist. I&#39;m not "name calling". Your pride just got hurt by it so that&#39;s what you assumed. How are "all revolutionary leftists...liberals" in theory? That makes no sense, because most revolutionary marxists hold a materialist outlook, which is not what you&#39;re doing.




I was responding to ichneumon, not you Zampano.

Well then you should have said so.

[razboz]

Actually, religion is just one tool they use to rationalize what they do. If they didn&#39;t have religion they&#39;d find something else.

Yup. Not gonna argue on that one. Im just saying we should defend ourselves before attacking the root causes of all of this.


It&#39;s pretty easy to separate them from religion itself so I&#39;m not exactly sure what you&#39;re talking about. Plus, by attacking religion you&#39;d be alienating religious comrades.


How cute. So i should allow myself to be walked all over just not to offend sme religious peeps? Sorry not hapening.


I&#39;ll stick with my "materialistic sunglasses" then. I&#39;d rather be right and actually change society for the better than be wrong just so I can punch someone.

Mataphor much?

Look you are asuming you have time to convince people through calm rational matrialist analysis of history. How much of that can you do when your being beat in the stomach by some zealus cop and his night-stick? How much do you think you wil be able to do once your means of living is cut off because your atheistic. Or of the wrong religion. Or white. Or gay. Or poor...


No I&#39;m not. I&#39;m using it to show that your outlook is that of a liberal and not of a materialist. I&#39;m not "name calling". Your pride just got hurt by it so that&#39;s what you assumed. How are "all revolutionary leftists...liberals" in theory? That makes no sense, because most revolutionary marxists hold a materialist outlook, which is not what you&#39;re doing.

Literally a "liberal" is somone who attempts to challenge the esablished order dogma and orthodox values.



Well then you should have said so.

OoooO :rolleyes: obviously a major talking point....

[ichneumon]

Now you can all sit there and moan because i am too fanatical. Fine by me. But dont ever come and say you are a revolutionary of ANY kind. Condemning all fanatics is the worst thing you could do. We need fanaticism, like we need the proletariat. No one is gonna get anywhere if we sit down and talk about with the bosses, cops and politicians. There&#39;s a name for that kind of person and thats a reformist. They get sent to OI. Which is convenient because we&#39;re already there....

bs. ad hominem abusive, even. fanaticism is a result of mental instability, and nutty people are worse than useless. you can&#39;t think clearly, therefore you are dangerous. i mean, what - did your parents dress you up in ugly clothes and drag you to church each sunday? (my ad hominem reply)

i&#39;m a revolutionary because everyday i dedicate my life to making the world a better place for humanity. i work to end the suffering of all beings. this is the revolution, it is happening now, and you missed it.

i talk with everybody. and because i&#39;m rational, intelligent and insightful, they listen. especially because every single day i bust my ass trying to save lives, including those of the people i&#39;m talking to. i also have nothing to sell - i don&#39;t care about what people believe, only what they do. maybe it&#39;s useless for you to talk to people because, well, they can tell you&#39;re a nutcase and don&#39;t listen. or perhaps because you are obviously unhappy, and whatever thoughtsystem is causing that, they don&#39;t want it.

what do you think will happen to you when you go attack churches? is a mental hospital somehow better than a gulag? wtf?

the sad thing is, i agree with the premise. america is a christian nation over my cold dead body. it&#39;s just that your tactic is NOT HELPFUL. you have a tactic, but no strategy. what you propose will NOT result in the secularization of america. why don&#39;t you understand that?