Why?

[Pow R. Toc H.]

I have been thinking lately about the way we treat people that dont think like us. More specifically about how we treat fascists. I know that they lie in direct opposition to us. But is right for us to beat the shit out of them just for thinking differently? I mean I hate those nazi fucks but It seems kind of primitive to go around kicking the shit out of them just for thinking differently. I say fuck em! Let them be idiots. Why should we even concern ourselves with those sons of *****es? It is unlikely that anything we do is going to stop them from being ignorant. So I say unless provoked, we should just let it be.

Any thoughts?

[bcbm]

Wherever racists and fascists are given room to operate and organize, they run with it and acts of violence directed against leftists and especially against minorities go through the roof. They're experiencing a huge resurgence in the US right now because of all immigration struggles going on and have stepped up their violence accordingly. They need to be stamped out, period.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

I see your concerns BCBM, but the approach doesn't seem to be right. We bemoan Redwatch and the like, and then laugh when fascists are hunted down.

I think if the acts of violence from both sides keep escalating it only becomes a sort of gang war with a dash of ideology involved, which defeats everything. So yes, there has to be initiative on the part of leftists to ensure that they are safe from harm. There also needs to be the assurance that minorities can be safe. But random acts of intimidation don't fix it (in the vein of lone fascists being jumped or their windows being broken.) This increases their resolve, it increases the martyr effect (look what it did for fucking Jesus, it's a dangerous thing sometimes) and it gives them justification, however weak, for them to counterattack. Then there is always not only the mainstream media to consider, but the peop,e we are trying to gain the support of. They might end up fearing us more than wanting to help if all we do is break skulls.

If anything it should only take a proactive amount of information being spread about what fascism is and what they do. (kind of redundant, the word itself conjures knee-jerk reactions in average people) Knowledge is more powerful than anything else.

Then we need to wonder about why they folllow fascism. Are they dislliusioned kids? Most likely. I bet if you gave them the chance to live long enough they'd realise what a load of shite their ideology is.

[bcbm]

We bemoan Redwatch and the like, and then laugh when fascists are hunted down.

Of course. One likes being the predator, not the prey. They are our enemies and so we want to strike at them while remaining mostly anonymous and safe from repercussions.


I think if the acts of violence from both sides keep escalating it only becomes a sort of gang war with a dash of ideology involved, which defeats everything.

It has been more or less like that since fascism developed, and it doesn't defeat anything. Winning the streets is very important, and one of the only ways fascism has ever been stopped historically. You can't build a movement if you can't organize.


So yes, there has to be initiative on the part of leftists to ensure that they are safe from harm. There also needs to be the assurance that minorities can be safe. But random acts of intimidation don't fix it (in the vein of lone fascists being jumped or their windows being broken.) This increases their resolve, it increases the martyr effect (look what it did for fucking Jesus, it's a dangerous thing sometimes) and it gives them justification, however weak, for them to counterattack.

The fascists will attack no matter what, but ultimately they are cowards. When beaten down at every opportunity, they become too afraid to act out of fear. You can bet they know that if they get the shit beat out of them for just being a Nazi, it will be a whole lot worse if they actually attack somebody.


Then there is always not only the mainstream media to consider, but the peop,e we are trying to gain the support of. They might end up fearing us more than wanting to help if all we do is break skulls.

The media is not worth considering. Most people don't care about Nazi boneheads getting jumped, especially in minority communities.


If anything it should only take a proactive amount of information being spread about what fascism is and what they do. (kind of redundant, the word itself conjures knee-jerk reactions in average people) Knowledge is more powerful than anything else.

We should absolutely be spreading information about what it is, AND why it is necessary to counter them through all possible means, including violence.


Then we need to wonder about why they folllow fascism. Are they dislliusioned kids? Most likely. I bet if you gave them the chance to live long enough they'd realise what a load of shite their ideology is.

There are plenty of old Nazi ****s running around to disprove that assertion. Fascists and communists are targeting the same groups, and that is why it is so important we win against them in the streets.

[The Anarchist Prince]

Fascists are around more and more these days....

They ARE a problem, because it's not just an extremist political group with deeply rooted beliefs, it's that coupled with hate and violence. Fascists generally go a magnitude further than merely "having opposing views". If it was just different views, big fucking deal.

Anyway, I don't randomly beat the shit out of people, and fascists are no exception. It's hard to fight violence with more violence, it's even hypocritical to a certain extent. Fascists are as much human as we are, as much as we like to not admit it. Anyways, there is no simple solution to this. All we can really do is protest their views, bring their crimes to the public, and make the general populace condone, and hate them as much as we do. Kicking the shit out of them helps nothing. It brings more violence both ways, and is only a short lived victory. This isn't a battle that will be won by force.

[bcbm]

Anyway, I don't randomly beat the shit out of people, and fascists are no exception. It's hard to fight violence with more violence, it's even hypocritical to a certain extent.

Not really. If someone is threatening your friends and family, not to mentions many other's, with violence, it makes pretty good sense to fight back.


Fascists are as much human as we are, as much as we like to not admit it.

So what? I don't care.


Anyways, there is no simple solution to this. All we can really do is protest their views, bring their crimes to the public, and make the general populace condone, and hate them as much as we do. Kicking the shit out of them helps nothing. It brings more violence both ways, and is only a short lived victory. This isn't a battle that will be won by force.

Actually, force is pretty much the only thing that has ever worked in shutting down fascists.
http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49893

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

If it was just different views, big fucking deal.
Yeah, there's nobody out there fighting the "Libertarian" Capitalists.





The media is not worth considering. Most people don't care about Nazi boneheads getting jumped, especially in minority communities.
The media don't care so much about Nazis being jumped unless it's leftists who do it. Then they can kill two birds with one stone and say something about "The violent radicals who plague our streets la de da de da"


It has been more or less like that since fascism developed, and it doesn't defeat anything. Winning the streets is very important, and one of the only ways fascism has ever been stopped historically. You can't build a movement if you can't organize.

Something like Cabel Street, where there was popular support, could be a better example of what you propose. Nobody died, and it managed to shut down British fascism pre-WW2. But that was when Fascism was such an enormous threat that such a demonstration against it was necessary.

In the climate of today I'm not sold on their being a threat in that way. It's abusrd for them to even follow fascism now.

I think that their two failings are that they don't really have an ideology per se, but rather use it to justify everyday brutality, and that if they ever did gain any sort of popularity they would be brought down as quickly as they had come up from, well, everybody.

[The Anarchist Prince]

Originally posted by black coffee black [email protected] 13, 2007 05:12 am

Anyway, I don't randomly beat the shit out of people, and fascists are no exception. It's hard to fight violence with more violence, it's even hypocritical to a certain extent.

Not really. If someone is threatening your friends and family, not to mentions many other's, with violence, it makes pretty good sense to fight back.


Fascists are as much human as we are, as much as we like to not admit it.

So what? I don't care.


Anyways, there is no simple solution to this. All we can really do is protest their views, bring their crimes to the public, and make the general populace condone, and hate them as much as we do. Kicking the shit out of them helps nothing. It brings more violence both ways, and is only a short lived victory. This isn't a battle that will be won by force.

Actually, force is pretty much the only thing that has ever worked in shutting down fascists.
http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49893
- If a fascist threatens me, or people I know or am involved with, sure, I'll do some ass kicking. But if I see some fascist walking down the street, I'm not going to kick the shit out of him unless he gives me a reason, other than being a fascist.(Which yes, I know, is reason enough for many)


- I know you don't care, I was just stating my opinion.


- If there is a way to get enough force to stamp out fascism, or really curb it, explain. It seems to me random asskickings have no effect, and only large shows of force would do anything.(Guess I answered my own question)

[bcbm]

The media don't care so much about Nazis being jumped unless it's leftists who do it. Then they can kill two birds with one stone and say something about "The violent radicals who plague our streets la de da de da"

So what? The media are our enemies and always will be, so we shouldn't be concerned about how they portray us- it will always be bad.



In the climate of today I'm not sold on their being a threat in that way. It's abusrd for them to even follow fascism now.

It isn't as absurd as you think, and is on the rise in many areas. While in the US, they can't gain any measure of control in the foreseeable future, they most certainly are a threat and have been making exponential gains all over the country. Anti-immigrant violence, especially, has been on the rise, and other racist attacks as well. Letting them go unchallenged and unharmed gives them confidence to continue their work.


If there is a way to get enough force to stamp out fascism, or really curb it, explain. It seems to me random asskickings have no effect, and only large shows of force would do anything.(Guess I answered my own question)

Check the link I put in the last post. It is a bit long, but it shows the necessity of countering fascism through all means.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 13, 2007 05:21 am

- If a fascist threatens me, or people I know or am involved with, sure, I'll do some ass kicking. But if I see some fascist walking down the street, I'm not going to kick the shit out of him unless he gives me a reason, other than being a fascist.(Which yes, I know, is reason enough for many)

My guess is that your a straight white (not-Jewish) person that doesn't see many fascists walking down the street. It's white privlege and you are enjoying it.

Don't be a fence sitter. Do something, or you are not much better than these types (guys and gals who dress like homies and hang in that subcult but tolerate boneheads at their school):

http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/0...e-lovemail.html (http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-lovemail.html)
http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/0...ur-replies.html (http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/02/some-lovemail-and-our-replies.html)

[Coggeh]

I wouldn't raise a fist to a fascist unless given reason like that certain nazi was known to be an extreme bollocks lol , I would just get a big megaphone and shout out (whens hes in a very public area) PEOPLE OF (wherever) KNOW YOUR LOCAL FASCIST and let them do the ass kicking I'd just incite it :)

[The Anarchist Prince]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+February 13, 2007 08:45 am--> (Comrade Marcel @ February 13, 2007 08:45 am)
The Anarchist [email protected] 13, 2007 05:21 am

- If a fascist threatens me, or people I know or am involved with, sure, I'll do some ass kicking. But if I see some fascist walking down the street, I'm not going to kick the shit out of him unless he gives me a reason, other than being a fascist.(Which yes, I know, is reason enough for many)

My guess is that your a straight white (not-Jewish) person that doesn't see many fascists walking down the street. It's white privlege and you are enjoying it.

Don't be a fence sitter. Do something, or you are not much better than these types (guys and gals who dress like homies and hang in that subcult but tolerate boneheads at their school):

http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/0...e-lovemail.html (http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/02/more-lovemail.html)
http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/0...ur-replies.html (http://naziwatchcanada.blogspot.com/2007/02/some-lovemail-and-our-replies.html) [/b]
I've put up anti fascist flyers and shit around my school, and dropped leaflets and stuff in my town. I'm only 17(Not to mention the only leftist that will do something in my area) , so I'm not going to walk around kicking fascist ass, as much gratitude that it would give me. I have Mexican, Black, Jewish, and Indian friends, so it's not like I'm immune from the hate some of them recieve. And there are plenty of Nazi's around here, I just don't go around picking fights with them. I'm not sitting on the fence or whatever, I'm actively against them, but it's currently a 1 man war, and I can only do so much.

[here for the revolution]

Originally posted by Pow R. Toc [email protected] 13, 2007 04:16 am
I mean I hate those nazi fucks but It seems kind of primitive to go around kicking the shit out of them just for thinking differently.
yeh dude my thought is if thats too primitive for you why don't you try the way that they killed us in post WW1 Germany?namely shoving a toad in your throat causing it to swell up with panic and assfixiate you?

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Yeah? Well I think you're a douche bag.

Link Please. Cuz I've never herd about that shit.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

My view is that "fascism" as in strict authouritarian practices or persecutions, can happen from anywhere. There have been radical vegans who made lists of their brethren whom they spotted eating meat, according to my friend.

Likewise the risk is that by fighting fascism so vehemently and fanatically you could become one yourself.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2007 02:55 pm
Likewise the risk is that by fighting fascism so vehemently and fanatically you could become one yourself.
No.. you could become overly authoritarian, maybe, but not "fascist." Fascism is not a catch-all term for authoritarianism.

[Phalanx]

Of course it's primitive, but let us not forget that humans are animals too. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to kick the shit out of nazis, we could have intelligent and peaceful debates. But since this is reality, it ain't gonna happen. If they attack us, we have to defend ourselves. Chasing nazis out of our neighborhoods also involves violence. Sometimes there really isn't a feasible alternative other than violence. Those that stand in the way of progress should be treated as such.