So i'm arguing with two cappies....

[DiggerII]

the other day i was arguing with two cappies. they were telling me, of course, communism's bs blah blah.

The question that they posed is this: "What if someone doesn't buy into communism and just doesn't work?"

i replied that "no matter what form of society you live under, you still reap what you sow. No matter what if you sit on your ass you won't be able to get by."

they replied "IT'S JUST LIKE CAPITALISM THEN" and refused to hear any more of my arguments.


did i say the right thing? should i go about such arguments in a different manner?

[Fawkes]

Capitalism is not at all like that because in capitalism you do not always reap what you sow. Plenty of capitalists sit on their asses and are able to do more than just "get by" (i.e. the Waltons). Therefore, what you said is not at all a description of how capitalism works.

[Sand Castle]

You should've pointed out to them how unfair capitalism is and then told them all the good things about different communist nations and what your country's communist party (Idk what yours is) stands for.

[Tekun]

Most ignorant cappies have no idea how communism would guide or improve society, so its ridiculous for them to say "well, communism wouldn't work"
U should of asked them how they know that, considering communism has never been reached
Most of these idiots just repeat what they've heard, and have no understanding of the improvements that communism would bring

Sultan, just to let u know bro....therez never been a communist country (communism has never been reached by a state), and for the most part communist parties around the world are all worthless liberal parties with no clear road to bring about revolution (and for many parties they have no connection nor do they seek to connect with workers)

I invite both of u to check out the High School Commie Guide (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500) which should help u out when arguing against cappies

[WP_Joel]

They're just under the illusion that if you work hard in capitialism you'll get what you deserve. Just mention all the peasant farmers across the globe who are probably the hardest working people on the planet and live in the worst conditions.

[Sand Castle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:01 pm
They're just under the illusion that if you work hard in capitialism you'll get what you deserve. Just mention all the peasant farmers across the globe who are probably the hardest working people on the planet and live in the worst conditions.
And then the capitalists will just bring up the "Why didn't these farmers work harder in school to go to college? If they can't afford it then they can just go to community college and work a part-time job. Then he can have a two year degree and be something else than a farmer and have more moeny." Then what do we say? How do you respond to the whole college thing?

[Fawkes]

First off, most thirld world countries have few colleges in the first place and second of all, college costs a lot of money. Also, if you're already poor, chances are that you're going to have to be working constantly just to barely make ends meet, meaning time for school is a commodity you do not have.

[Sand Castle]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 10:26 pm
First off, most thirld world countries have few colleges in the first place and second of all, college costs a lot of money. Also, if you're already poor, chances are that you're going to have to be working constantly just to barely make ends meet, meaning time for school is a commodity you do not have.
I was talking about in the United States. Aren't community colleges very cheap? If so then the cappies will use that. They might also bring up something like, "He could have gotten into college free on a scholarship if he worked harder is high school." What is to be said then? What if they go to a school for plumbers or electricians? I don't think that is too expensive. If these are somewhat smart cappies, then they will bring that up. I wouldn't know what to say..... :(

[Fawkes]

You can't go to college if you don't finish high school (in most cases).Many kids drop out of high school either because their families are to poor to support their education or their families are so poor that they have to work full-time to try to support their family.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 06:56 am
the other day i was arguing with two cappies. they were telling me, of course, communism's bs blah blah.

The question that they posed is this: "What if someone doesn't buy into communism and just doesn't work?"

i replied that "no matter what form of society you live under, you still reap what you sow. No matter what if you sit on your ass you won't be able to get by."

they replied "IT'S JUST LIKE CAPITALISM THEN" and refused to hear any more of my arguments.


did i say the right thing? should i go about such arguments in a different manner?
Yes well in socialism you'll have quotas set by the worker councils or delegates. If you miss your quota, don't expect to just mooch off of society. The difference in socialism, is that production relations have been completly changed. The workers own the factories and its in there interest to make it work.

[Janus]

"What if someone doesn't buy into communism and just doesn't work?"
That's an incomplete and ambiguous sentence. Are they saying that it won't work because not enough will agree with it or because it will fail cause some people aren't going to join a communist society.

In response to the latter, we can't force someone to join society but there are definitely rewards to be gained from being part of a society as opposed to the hardships and loneliness of living by oneself.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The problem with your argument was that your oponents viewed commuism as the egalitarian distribution of goods as opposed to capitalism which is the free-market-based disribution of goods. Just say, "You don't understand what you're talking about, sir. Goodbye."

[RedKnight]

Originally posted by sultan+February 10, 2007 10:22 pm--> (sultan @ February 10, 2007 10:22 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 05:01 pm
They're just under the illusion that if you work hard in capitialism you'll get what you deserve. Just mention all the peasant farmers across the globe who are probably the hardest working people on the planet and live in the worst conditions.
And then the capitalists will just bring up the "Why didn't these farmers work harder in school to go to college? If they can't afford it then they can just go to community college and work a part-time job. Then he can have a two year degree and be something else than a farmer and have more moeny." Then what do we say? How do you respond to the whole college thing? [/b]
I'd then say, "well somebody has to do the work". Not everyone can go to colledge, and get a white collar profreesional job. So we should all value the contributions of everyone, and try to make sure that all people can have the opportunity of having a decent standard of living.

[WP_Joel]

Also say that the ruling class are reluctant to give completely free education and support students through further/higher education as they need low skilled workers to do the dog's body jobs and they certainly don't want to have to pay for them to education and potentially emancipate themselves.

[Faceless]

The question that they posed is this: "What if someone doesn't buy into communism and just doesn't work?"
Janus summed it up quite well; fact is that employment will give people a purpose and will be a part of life which is to be enjoyed and used to enrich yourself. The reason these people can't understand that is because to them the laws which govern capitalist society are unchanging. The question is totally meaningless when you realise that Labour will change its form in a communist society. Imagine if they asked the same question about slave society? "What if someone doesn't buy into slavery and just doesn't work?" There would have been no mooching off the state; you would have no doubt been killed and no one would have had qualms with that.

To these people work = hardship, alienation, meaningless. You should try to shake this static view they have of the world. To answer the question literally, "what would you do?" I'd probably pity them.