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Red Menace
10th February 2007, 03:21
I don't know if this is the right place for this, but could anyone give me some information on Leninist theory. I've read the rev left dictionary on the subject, and I saw the links it had attached to it. I've scoured the internet and I cannot find anything on Leninist theory. Any articles, anything explaining the theory behind leninism would be much appreciated, thank you.

RedLenin
10th February 2007, 03:57
Leninism is an extension of Marxism. It basically elaborates on how a revolution can actually concretely take place and how the working class can actually take power. Leninism extends Marxism into the era of imperialism and deals with how revolutionaries should organize.

Here are some essential writings by Lenin:
Imperialism As The Highest Stage of Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm)
State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm)
Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/index.htm)

And here is a work I found that dispels some of the myths regarding the feared vanguard party:
Myths of the Vanguard Party (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1990/myth/myth.htm)

Also, you may want to check out these sites, all of which are both Leninist and huge:
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.newyouth.com
http://www.socialistappeal.org

Red Menace
10th February 2007, 04:02
thank you very much comrade :)

Vargha Poralli
10th February 2007, 04:12
RedLenin had gave almost everything important to understand Lenin's contribution to marxism but he missed out one crucial work What is to be Done ? (http://www.marx.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/index.htm)

And one which essentially seperates theBolsheviks Tactic from Menshevik Tactics (http://www.marx.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/tactics/index.htm)

Rawthentic
10th February 2007, 05:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 07:57 pm
Leninism is an extension of Marxism. It basically elaborates on how a revolution can actually concretely take place and how the working class can actually take power. Leninism extends Marxism into the era of imperialism and deals with how revolutionaries should organize.

Here are some essential writings by Lenin:
Imperialism As The Highest Stage of Capitalism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm)
State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm)
Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/index.htm)

And here is a work I found that dispels some of the myths regarding the feared vanguard party:
Myths of the Vanguard Party (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/index.htm)

Also, you may want to check out these sites, all of which are both Leninist and huge:
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.newyouth.com
http://www.socialistappeal.org
Marx didn't say how revolutions can take place "concretely"? Don't make it sound as if "Leninism", if such term can be given to Lenin's ideas, is Marxism. It's simply contributions to Marxist theory, like Sartre, Freire, Luxembourg, etc., did as well.

RGacky3
10th February 2007, 06:03
That link to Myths of the Vanguard goes to Left-Wing Communism.

Vargha Poralli
10th February 2007, 07:37
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 10:32 am
Marx didn't say how revolutions can take place "concretely"? Don't make it sound as if "Leninism", if such term can be given to Lenin's ideas, is Marxism. It's simply contributions to Marxist theory, like Sartre, Freire, Luxembourg, etc., did as well.
Lenin's ideas, is Marxism whether you like it or not. Lenin is not a Leninist.


That link to Myths of the Vanguard goes to Left-Wing Communism.

Yes I too noticed.I don't know which work RedLenin is referring to .

RedLenin
10th February 2007, 16:05
Yes I too noticed.I don't know which work RedLenin is referring to .
Yeah, sorry about that. I accidently copied the same URL twice. I've fixed it now.

More Fire for the People
10th February 2007, 17:07
Leninism or Marxism? (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1904/questions-rsd/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
The Russian Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/russian-revolution/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
Luxemburg versus Lenin (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1935/luxemburg-lenin.htm) by Paul Mattick

Rawthentic
10th February 2007, 22:01
Lenin's ideas, is Marxism whether you like it or not. Lenin is not a Leninist.

I agree that Lenin was not a "Leninist" in the sense that we see it today, but to say that Lenin's theories are Marxism is plain ridiculous. He made contributions to Marxism as did Mao, Castro. Or maybe they distorted Marxism.

chimx
10th February 2007, 23:17
Why is it that people say "he made contributions to Marxism," instead of saying, "he made contributions to communist theory." Kautsky made just as much of a contribution, if not more, yet I don't see many people calling themselves Marxist-Kautskyist.

More Fire for the People
10th February 2007, 23:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:17 pm
Why is it that people say "he made contributions to Marxism," instead of saying, "he made contributions to communist theory." Kautsky made just as much of a contribution, if not more, yet I don't see many people calling themselves Marxist-Kautskyist.
Ironically, Lenin was a Kautskyist dead out.

Rawthentic
11th February 2007, 08:07
I agree Chimx with what you say, that's my whole point.

dogwoodlover
11th February 2007, 09:03
Lenin contributed to Marxist theory, just like Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Che, Kautsky, Luxemburg, Gramsci, etc. all did.

Now, as for which theories are truly capable of delivering and sustaining a socialist society, leading up to the transition to communism, is what is debated.

BOZG
20th February 2007, 01:46
Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 10, 2007 05:07 pm
Leninism or Marxism? (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1904/questions-rsd/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
The Russian Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/russian-revolution/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
Luxemburg versus Lenin (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1935/luxemburg-lenin.htm) by Paul Mattick
There's no doubt that Rosa Luxemburg had a number of differences with Lenin but merely quoting her earlier polemics without pointing out her later attitude towards Bolshevism is quite deceitful. It would be like trying to quote Trotsky's earlier polemics with Lenin without pointing out that he later accepted Leninism. Even with her differences, she still recognised the importance of Bolshevism.

More Fire for the People
20th February 2007, 03:14
Originally posted by BOZG+February 19, 2007 07:46 pm--> (BOZG @ February 19, 2007 07:46 pm)
Hopscotch [email protected] 10, 2007 05:07 pm
Leninism or Marxism? (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1904/questions-rsd/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
The Russian Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/russian-revolution/index.htm) by Rosa Luxemburg
Luxemburg versus Lenin (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1935/luxemburg-lenin.htm) by Paul Mattick
There's no doubt that Rosa Luxemburg had a number of differences with Lenin but merely quoting her earlier polemics without pointing out her later attitude towards Bolshevism is quite deceitful. It would be like trying to quote Trotsky's earlier polemics with Lenin without pointing out that he later accepted Leninism. Even with her differences, she still recognised the importance of Bolshevism. [/b]
Umm, I included The Russian Revolution which was written a year before her death. I think that could qualify as a later work.

OneBrickOneVoice
21st February 2007, 06:56
Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+February 10, 2007 11:30 pm--> (Hopscotch Anthill @ February 10, 2007 11:30 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 05:17 pm
Why is it that people say "he made contributions to Marxism," instead of saying, "he made contributions to communist theory." Kautsky made just as much of a contribution, if not more, yet I don't see many people calling themselves Marxist-Kautskyist.
Ironically, Lenin was a Kautskyist dead out. [/b]
hmm, interesting. I had heard they had gotten into a fued. Lenin called Kautsky a "renegade" and then Kautsky critisized the Bolshevik Revolution or something liket hat.

More Fire for the People
21st February 2007, 23:23
Originally posted by LeftyHenry+February 21, 2007 12:56 am--> (LeftyHenry @ February 21, 2007 12:56 am)
Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 10, 2007 11:30 pm

[email protected] 10, 2007 05:17 pm
Why is it that people say "he made contributions to Marxism," instead of saying, "he made contributions to communist theory." Kautsky made just as much of a contribution, if not more, yet I don't see many people calling themselves Marxist-Kautskyist.
Ironically, Lenin was a Kautskyist dead out.
hmm, interesting. I had heard they had gotten into a fued. Lenin called Kautsky a "renegade" and then Kautsky critisized the Bolshevik Revolution or something liket hat. [/b]
Right. The big divide Lenin and Kautsy was that Kautsky favoured reformism while Lenin favoured revolution but they had the same views on party organisation and the road to socialism.

FOREVER LEFT
21st February 2007, 23:36
Some of you guys are misleading the questioner of this thread. Leninism is a branch of Marxism. But there are two Lenins--- Lenin the leftist (that is Lenin of The State of Revolution and April Theses) and then there is the Lenin the totalitarian. All of Lenin's other works, with the exception of the ones mentioned above, tend to be totalitarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism#L..._of_imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism#Leninist_theory_of_imperialism)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin

OneBrickOneVoice
21st February 2007, 23:38
Originally posted by FOREVER [email protected] 21, 2007 11:36 pm
Some of you guys are misleading the questioner of this thread. Leninism is a branch of Marxism. But there are two Lenins--- Lenin the leftist (that is Lenin of The State of Revolution and April Theses) and then there is the Lenin the totalitarian. All of Lenin's other works, with the exception of the ones mentioned above, tend to be totalitarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism#L..._of_imperialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism#Leninist_theory_of_imperialism)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin
dude wtf are you talking about?

RedLenin
21st February 2007, 23:52
All of Lenin's other works, with the exception of the ones mentioned above, tend to be totalitarian.
Really? Perhaps you should read Lenin's works. None of them are totalitarian at all. In fact, Lenin never even wanted one-party dictatorship, the thing he is most falsly accused of. Yes, unfortunately the State and Revolution was not fully put into practice in Russia, though elements of it were. The isolation and backwardness of Russia, combined with the 21 invading armies and a bloody civil war made it pretty damn hard to have direct democracy and a vague "armed people". Lenin and Trotsky saved the revolution by building the Red Army and yes, defending the socialist state violently.

The Bolsheviks were more concerned with saving the revolution, even if that meant that State and Revolution could not be fully applied. Even Lenin said that the state in Russia was a "worker's state with bureaucratic deformations".

Lenin's Works (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/index.htm)

FOREVER LEFT
22nd February 2007, 00:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 11:52 pm

All of Lenin's other works, with the exception of the ones mentioned above, tend to be totalitarian.
Really? Perhaps you should read Lenin's works. None of them are totalitarian at all. In fact, Lenin never even wanted one-party dictatorship, the thing he is most falsly accused of. Yes, unfortunately the State and Revolution was not fully put into practice in Russia, though elements of it were. The isolation and backwardness of Russia, combined with the 21 invading armies and a bloody civil war made it pretty damn hard to have direct democracy and a vague "armed people". Lenin and Trotsky saved the revolution by building the Red Army and yes, defending the socialist state violently.

The Bolsheviks were more concerned with saving the revolution, even if that meant that State and Revolution could not be fully applied. Even Lenin said that the state in Russia was a "worker's state with bureaucratic deformations".

Lenin's Works (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/index.htm)
Lenin & Trotsky used the anarchist armies in the Ukraine then they destroyed those armies. He purged the anarchists. Never again should we have a red bureaucracy! All power to the people!!!!

Lamanov
22nd February 2007, 00:52
"Two Lenins", huh?

Those two works you mentioned fit into Lenin's bolshevik project just like anything else he wrote. They represent a written polemic against reformist tendencies, with few popular catch phrases ("power to the soviets") and some Marx/Engels quotes (and by being quotes, they certanly fall out of their context as such).

So we have "two Lenins" just like we have "two moons"... we don't.

RGacky3
22nd February 2007, 02:07
Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 11:52 pm
The isolation and backwardness of Russia, combined with the 21 invading armies and a bloody civil war made it pretty damn hard to have direct democracy and a vague "armed people". Lenin and Trotsky saved the revolution by building the Red Army and yes, defending the socialist state violently.
From the Social-Democrat party, and the Menshevics, and the Anarchists, and really any one that disagreed with the Bolshivics? Did'nt ONLY attack the white army.

The Grey Blur
22nd February 2007, 14:08
Originally posted by RGacky3+February 22, 2007 02:07 am--> (RGacky3 @ February 22, 2007 02:07 am)
[email protected] 21, 2007 11:52 pm
The isolation and backwardness of Russia, combined with the 21 invading armies and a bloody civil war made it pretty damn hard to have direct democracy and a vague "armed people". Lenin and Trotsky saved the revolution by building the Red Army and yes, defending the socialist state violently.
From the Social-Democrat party, and the Menshevics, and the Anarchists, and really any one that disagreed with the Bolshivics? [/b]
Why the fuck do some Anarchists today defend liberals who continued World War 1? The actual Anarchists in Russia in 1917 didn't - they "persecuted" the Mensheviks and SRs as much as the Bolsheviks, something which I commend them in doing.

The Bolsheviks in fact at first allowed counter-revolutionaries to simply leave the area rather than summarily executing them, something they paid the price for when the first (both democratic and popular) leader of the Petrograd Cheka, Volodarsky, was shot and killed by a counter-revolutionary. There are other examples of Bolsehvik leniency towards counter-revolutionaries being punished through the death of working class militants.

Frankly anyone who works against a worker's state, no matter how flawed, has to be dealt with. The true Socialists amongst the Anarchists in Russia accepted this and fought within the Red Army against the reactionaries. Many later joined the Left Oppositionist of Leon Trotsky.


Did'nt ONLY attack the white army.
The white army was defined only by those who fought to overthrow the revolution. This included false Socialists, ex-Tsarists, liberals, bandits and foreign capitalists.

Vargha Poralli
22nd February 2007, 14:21
From the Social-Democrat party, and the Menshevics, and the Anarchists, and really any one that disagreed with the Bolshivics? Did'nt ONLY attack the white army.

First of all Anarchists were not immediately repressed once Bolsheviks took power. They were too leinient towards anarchists. Only when the latter resorted to violence did the Bolsheviks unleash the repression on them.

There were some exception there are true anarchists. Primmary example is Serge who joined the Left Opposition latter.

FOREVER LEFT
22nd February 2007, 15:59
The destruction of the of the popular forces by Lenin and Trotsky occurred before the foreign intervention of the allies.


Noam Chomsky quotes:


"Well, first of all, there are, I think, very different strains of Leninism. I mean, there's the Lenin of 1917, the Lenin of the "April Theses" and State and Revolution. And then there's the Lenin who took power and acted in ways that are unrecognizable as far as I can see when compared with, say, the doctrines of State and Revolution. For a Marxist, maybe for Lenin himself had he looked back, this would not be very hard to explain. There's a big difference between the libertarian doctrines of a person who is trying to associate himself with a mass popular movement to acquire power, and the authoritarianism of someone who has taken power and is trying to consolidate it. So I don't think that transition is maybe very difficult to explain. So, in talking about Lenin, I'd ask which Lenin you are talking about. And, of course, that is true with Marx also. There are competing strains in Marx. But I think it's characteristic, and unfortunate, that the lesson that was drawn from Marx and Lenin for the later period was the authoritarian lesson. That is, it was the authoritarian Lenin that persisted, the one that concentrated on the conquest of state power by the vanguard party and destruction of all popular forums in interests of the masses. That's the Lenin who became known to later generations. Again, not very surprisingly, because that's what Leninism really was in practice. And I think it's a tremendous tragedy for the socialist movement as a whole that the Russian Revolution was identified as socialist."

See, here Lenin himself was ambivalent. He never identified it as socialist. He said [it was] some kind of state capitalism and probably you can't have socialism in a country like Russia and so forth. He varied, but basically that is what he was saying and that's sort of accurate. But then, of course, the kind of party ideologues and their various slaves in the so-called socialist movements, for their own purposes, had to identify what they were associating themselves with as something a little better than just state capitalism, though that's in fact what it was. And so, they then incorporated the whole socialist tradition within this extremely reactionary structure and thereby virtually destroyed it.

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/197401--.htm


"Lenin would surely have been the first to recognize that there was no 'Leninist Worker's State,' and I gave no criticism of this non-existent entity. One can raise questions about why Lenin, Trotsky, and their successors made no effort to facilitate a "worker's state," but that didn't seems evident, at least if the term has a meaning remotely similar to their own articulated doctrines. As for the monstrosity they did create, one vastly preferable alternative would have been what Lenin himself called for shortly before taking power, in State and Revolution."

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/repliesj17th.htm

"And I should add that Marxism/Leninism has exactly the same view. The Vanguard party of Lenin very much acts on the same doctrine. The people are just too stupid to be able to run their own affairs and we're smart enough so we'll run it for them. And they better do what we say or else."

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/rage/

Vargha Poralli
22nd February 2007, 16:25
The destruction of the of the popular forces by Lenin and Trotsky occurred before the foreign intervention of the allies.

Entirely False . when you claim something you should back up with the sources from that time. Not some armchair analyses from Chomsky.


All of this may sound credible to someone picking up her books for the first time. But it ignores the most important point that anyone who wants to understand this period must know–that it takes place two years into a civil war that has devastated industrial production, and in which the workers’ government is fighting for its survival. The government desperately tried to hold out against the indigenous counterrevolutionaries and fourteen foreign armies, hoping that a revolution in Europe would come to its aid. And while there is no doubt that these conditions led to a degeneration of the revolution, committed communists felt the only possibility of reinvigorating the revolution lay in its defense against the counterrevolution. Victor Serge, an anarchist who joined the revolution, wrote to his anarchist comrades, "It is vital to respond to this necessity for revolutionary defense, as to the necessity for terror and dictatorship, on pain of death. For the grim reality of revolutions is that half-measures and half-defeats are not possible, and that victory means life, defeat means death."28 Serge was far from an apologist for the Bolsheviks, and certainly no Stalinist. He later became a Trotskyist, opposed to Stalin’s dictatorship. But he, like most anarchists in Russia who joined the Communist Party, recognized that only victory against the counterrevolution would create the possibility for anything the anarchists said they stood for.

Goldman wrote that the government imprisoned anarchists for their ideas. But most of the anarchists who fell victim to the Cheka police were those who took action against the revolutionary state. They emerged along with the Left Social Revolutionaries (SRs)–the descendants of the Narodniks–as the main "left" critics of Bolshevik policies. They opposed the 1918 Brest-Litovsk Treaty that signed away a huge chunk of Russia to the German Empire. The Bolsheviks felt the Brest-Litovsk Treaty was like swallowing poison, but they argued they had to make good on their pledge of peace–to get out of the First World War.

Anarchists didn’t confine their criticism of the government to words. In fact, they engaged in terrorism against the regime and bank robberies to finance their movement. Moscow anarchists organized Black Guards, which criminal elements infiltrated, to carry out these actions. The Left SR Fanny Kaplan tried to assassinate Lenin in 1918. And in September 1919, shortly before Goldman arrived in Russia, anarchists and Left SRs actually bombed the Moscow Communist Party headquarters, killing twelve and injuring fifty-five. Even with these outrages, the repression meted out against the anarchists was far more inconsistent than Goldman made it out to be. Anarchists arrested one week were released the next. Most who promised not to take up arms against the government were released. Anarchist bookstores remained open throughout the 1920s, and in 1921 the state organized a funeral for the death of anarchist leader Peter Kropotkin at which Goldman spoke

Source (http://www.isreview.org/issues/34/emmagoldman.shtml)

The Grey Blur
22nd February 2007, 16:27
"All revolutions are totalitarian, no matter who says otherwise" - Friends of Durruti, Revolutionary Anarchists.

Chomsky wrote a few books - boring ones.

Lenin lead a revolution - a messy one with all the complications that creating a new society comes with.

Lenin 1 - 0 Chomsky

FOREVER LEFT
22nd February 2007, 16:30
Then why did the revolution in Russia fail?--- because it was not true socialism. The people should be in power directing their own society not a vanguard party, not a revolutionary elite! We need worker control not a bloody imposition from above.

Vargha Poralli
22nd February 2007, 16:41
Originally posted by FOREVER [email protected] 22, 2007 10:00 pm
Then why did the revolution in Russia fail?--- because it was not true socialism. The people should be in power directing their own society not a vanguard party, not a revolutionary elite! We need worker control not a bloody imposition from above.

Then why did the revolution in Russia fail?

Revolution Betrayed (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marxists.org%2Farchive%2Ftrot sky%2Fworks%2F1936-rev%2F&ei=sMbdRfHiHYfgsAKH352mBg&usg=__Fpla8ACLndX62-mOCHpegU66AM8=&sig2=oGseJpbwDKNGvWEPXETkAQ)

To analyse why The Russian revolution failed you should go for a Marxists analysis for it not an analysis from Liberals like Chomsky.



because it was not true socialism.

no one is claiming it is.


The people should be in power directing their own society not a vanguard party, not a revolutionary elite! We need worker control not a bloody imposition from above.

Agree with you on this.

The Grey Blur
22nd February 2007, 16:48
Then why did the revolution in Russia fail?
The combination of material conditions not being advanced enough, the toll of civil war and the failure of the revolution to spread to the more developed Western European nations all laid the basis for bureaucratic counter-revolution.


because it was not true socialism
What is your "true" Socialism? Has it ever existed? Noone is claiming the Russian Revolution was perfect.


The people should be in power directing their own society not a vanguard party, not a revolutionary elite!
The vanguard is neccessary to revolutionise the masses. Once power is attained it should give way to worker's self-governance - this was not entirely possible in Russia due to the Civil war and the material reasons listed above.


We need worker control not a bloody imposition from above.
I agree.

robbo203
24th February 2007, 23:38
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 03:57 am
Leninism is an extension of Marxism. It basically elaborates on how a revolution can actually concretely take place and how the working class can actually take power. Leninism extends Marxism into the era of imperialism and deals with how revolutionaries should organize.



[QUOTE]

Completely false. Leninism is a siginficant distortion of Marxism as the article below makes abundantly clear. http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/jan04/lenin.html. It totally contradicts marxism in many ways

Lenism is the bourgeois ideology of state capitalism. It did not lead to the working class taking power but to a new ruling class which installed a brutal dictatorship over the Russian working class and presided over one of the most corrupt and unequal societies on the face of the earth - Soviet state capitalism

How anyone can support these murdering capitalist swine and still claim to be a socialist or communist absolutely beggars belief. The facts speak for themselves

Robin
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worldincommon/

_______________________________

Lenin: a socialist analysis

When Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov was sixteen his brother was hanged for complicity in a plot to assassinate the Tsar. Later, he himself got involved in anti-Tsarist revolutionary activity, was arrested and spent three years in prison in Siberia. In 1900 he was exiled, eventually settling in Switzerland and adopting the pseudonym “Lenin”. He founded and was the leader of the Bolshevik wing of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party in 1903. After the revolution of February 1917 Lenin returned to Russia and in October he led the Bolsheviks to power in a coup. When he died in January 1924, most of the main feudal obstacles to capitalist development had been removed, together with all effective political opposition.

The socialist analysis of Lenin and his legacy is different from the Cold War propaganda which can still be found in books such as Orlando Figes' A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution 1891-1924, published in 1996, which depicts Lenin and the Bolsheviks as forerunners of Hitler and the Nazis. The socialist argument against Lenin is based on the evidence that he distorted what Marx claimed and thereby damaged socialist theory, pursued political action that was against the interests of the working class and dragged the name of socialism through the mud.

Starting with What Is To Be Done? (1902) Lenin said: “the history of all countries shows that the working class, exclusively by its own efforts, is able to develop only trade union consciousness.” Lenin argued that socialist consciousness had to be brought to the working class by professional revolutionaries rather than a parliamentary party, drawn mainly from the petty-bourgeoisie, and organised as a vanguard party. But in 1879 Marx and Engels issued a circular in which they declared the opposite:

“When the International was formed we expressly formulated the battle cry: The emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves. We cannot, therefore, co-operate with people who openly state that the workers are too uneducated to emancipate themselves and must be freed from above by philanthropic big bourgeois and petty bourgeois” (www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1879/09/18.htm).

It must be noted however that Lenin's elitism was consistent with the outlook of the Second International. As Hal Draper has written: “The fact is that Lenin had just read this theory in the most prestigious theoretical organ of Marxism of the whole international socialist movement, the Neue Zeit. It had been put forward in an important article by the leading Marxist authority of the International, Karl Kautsky.” (The Myth of Lenin's Concept of The Party, www.marxists.org/archive/draper/works/1990/myth/index.htm). The difference between Kautsky and Lenin here was over who was to lead the workers beyond “trade-union consciousness”, though historically Lenin's interpretation that this should be a vanguard party of professional revolutionaries has been more influential. By contrast, when the Socialist Party of Great Britain was formed in 1904 it repudiated leadership as a political principle and insisted that the emancipation of the working class really had to be the work of the working class itself.

False distinction
Lenin was not the first to describe socialism as a transitional society, but through his followers, he turned out to be the most influential. In Lenin's Political Thought (1981), Neil Harding claims that in 1917 Lenin made “no clear delineation” between socialism and communism. But in fact Lenin did write in State and Revolution (1917) of a “scientific distinction” between socialism and communism:

“What is usually called socialism was termed by Marx the 'first', or lower, phase of communist society. Insofar as the means of production become common property, the word 'communism' is also applicable here, providing we do not forget that this is not complete communism” (www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm#s1).

The first sentence of this quote is simply untrue and Lenin must have known this. Marx and Engels used the terms socialism and communism interchangeably to refer to the post-revolutionary society of common ownership of the means of production. It is true that in his Critique of the Gotha Programme (1875) Marx wrote of a transition between a lower phase of communism and a higher phase of communism. Marx held that, because of the low level of economic development (in 1875), individual consumption would have to be rationed, possibly by the use of labour-time vouchers (similar to those advocated by Robert Owen). But in the higher phase of communism, when the forces of production had developed sufficiently, consumption would be according to need. It is important to realise, however, that in both phases of socialism/communism there would be no state or money economy. Lenin, on the other hand, said that socialism (or the first phase of communism) is a transitional society between capitalism and full communism, in which there is both a state and money economy. According to Lenin:

“It follows that under communism there remains for a time not only bourgeois right, but even the bourgeois state, without the bourgeoisie!… For the state to wither away completely, complete communism is necessary.”

But Lenin failed to see what this would involve. In effect, the theory of “socialism” as a transitional society was to become an apology for state capitalism.

In terms of its impact on world politics, Lenin's State and Revolution was probably his most important work. This was derived from the theoretical analysis contained in his earlier work, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism (1916). Lenin's theory of imperialism demonstrated to his satisfaction that the whole administrative structure of “socialism” had been developed during the epoch of finance or monopoly capitalism. Under the impact of the First World War, so the argument ran, capitalism had been transformed into state-monopoly capitalism. On that basis, Lenin claimed, the democratisation of state-monopoly capitalism was socialism. As Lenin pointed out in The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It (1917):

“For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly” (original emphasis, www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/ichtci/11.htm).

In State and Revolution Lenin claimed that according to Marx work and wages would be guided by the “socialist principle” (though in fact it comes from the christian saint, Paul): “He who does not work shall not eat.” This was eventually adopted in the USSR Constitution of 1936 and amended to read: “to each according to his work.” as a “principle of socialism.” Marx and Engels used no such “principle” and they made no such distinction concerning socialism. Lenin in fact did not “re-establish what Marx really taught on the subject of the state”, as he claimed, but substantially distorted it to suit the situation in which the Bolsheviks found themselves. When Stalin announced the doctrine of “socialism in one country” in 1936 (i.e. the establishment of state capitalism in Russia) he was drawing on an idea implicit in Lenin's writings.

Dictatorship
In State and Revolution, Lenin gave special emphasis to the concept of the “dictatorship of the proletariat”. This phrase was sometimes used by Marx and Engels and meant working class conquest of power, which (unlike Lenin) they did not confuse with a socialist society. Engels had cited the Paris Commune of 1871 as an example of the dictatorship of the proletariat. The Commune impressed Marx and Engels for its ultra-democratic features, which involved a non-hierarchical structure and the use of revocable delegates. Lenin, on the other hand, tended to identify the term with a state ruled by a vanguard party. When the Bolsheviks actually gained power they centralised political power more and more in the hands of the Communist Party. Modern-day Leninists claim that the rise of Stalin was due to the ravages of civil war and Russian isolation, but the fact remains that “democratic centralism” can allow dictators to rise to power and all openly pro-capitalist political parties have a similar structure which can allow the leadership to act undemocratically.

Lenin's short article The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism (1913) is a concise explanation of the basics of Marxism (www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm). But by 1918 the dictatorship of the proletariat had become for Lenin “the very essence of Marx's teaching” (The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky, 1918, www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/prrk/index.htm). It is noticeable however that Lenin's Three Sources article contained no mention of the phrase or Lenin's particular conception of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Harding alleges that Lenin was the most “doctrinaire” of all Marxists at this time, but here again we see that Lenin was only too willing to distort Marx's arguments in order to fit into the reality of Russia's capitalist revolution. That is, the further development of wage labour, capital, commodity production and the state, which resulted in the exploitation of the working class by the party bureaucracy as the exploiting class.

Lenin's greatest positive achievement was getting Russia out of the bloody futility of World War One, something that the Socialist Party acknowledged at the time. The Socialist Party was the only British organisation to publish the Bolsheviks' anti-war declaration during the war. The trouble really started when claims about the “socialist” nature of Russia began to be aired, first within Russia then in the Communist parties being formed around the world. (See www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/archive/revolution(1918).pdf) The false claims about Russian “socialism” are largely derived from Lenin's opportunism as he distorted Marxism – working class socialist theory. In this country, the Socialist Party always denied that socialism existed in Russia (or anywhere else) or that Russia was on a transition towards socialism.

For its anti-democratic elitism and its advocacy of an irrelevant transitional society misnamed “socialism”, in theory and in practice, Leninism today deserves the hostility of workers everywhere. Lenin seriously distorted Marxism and thereby severely damaged the development of the socialist movement. Indeed, Leninism still continues to pose a real obstacle to the achievement of socialism.

Rawthentic
25th February 2007, 01:04
Comrade, I think that you ignore that Russia was a backwards feudal-state at this time, and in such conditions socialism could have never been possible. Even if Lenin had described himself as an outright anarchist, it could have never been attainable.

More Fire for the People
25th February 2007, 01:13
Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 07:04 pm
Comrade, I think that you ignore that Russia was a backwards feudal-state at this time, and in such conditions socialism could have never been possible. Even if Lenin had described himself as an outright anarchist, it could have never been attainable.
Ah the clarion call of First World chauvanist. Because silly underdeveloped peoples can't collectively organize and develop productive forces — they need white capitalists to do it for them! By the way, Russia wasn't 'feudal' it was a composite of different production paradigms which included industrial capitalism, agrarian capitalism, and feudalist linger-ons.

Rawthentic
25th February 2007, 01:17
That's not what I said imbecile.

Of course they can develop productive forces to achieve socialism, but under the current condition of feudalism, or whatever you call Russia at the time, could not support socialism. The workers were a very insignificant minority at the time. That is not to say that they couldn't "collectively organize" to accelerate the process for socialism.

Reread my post and look at a little more deeply than you did before you call me baseless shit like "First World chauvanist."

Die Neue Zeit
29th February 2008, 06:43
Forgive me for bumping up this thread, but seeing distant-past positions of two revolutionary Marxist posters regarding the "renegade" Kautsky and his disciple Lenin (yes, I read the left-communist Dauve article (http://libcom.org/library/renegade-kautsky-disciple-lenin-dauve)) brings me some chuckles before I connect them to my "Erfurtian"/"merger" material...

http://www.revleft.com/vb/real-revisionist-kautsky-t71380/index.html


If it's possible in the future, some comrade(s) should turn Kautsky's thinking right side up like Marx did with Hegel. A proper understanding (and perhaps even mastery) of the merger formula outlined in "The Class Struggle" is essential for any revolutionary Marxist, but notions like policy-based imperialism (not so much "ultra-imperialism," given the closeness of Cold-War American hegemony in the West to Kautsky's "ultra-imperialism"), "apocalyptic predestinationism" (every activity of the German SPD was legal, precisely because Kautsky thought that capitalism was doomed to collapse on the horizon, such that revolutionary activity wasn't needed) and Marxism having an "integral world-outlook" need to be dumped (the most extreme form of this being Lysenko "science").

Led Zeppelin
29th February 2008, 07:27
Thread closed.

Please don't necromancy.