Marxists: intervention in reactionary parties

[boxinghefner]

I wanted some information on how we can understand Marxist intervention - and the basis of Marxist(Trotskyist) intervention in organisations.

Of course Lenin said
"If you want to help the "masses" and win the sympathy and support of the "masses" .... must absolutely work wherever the masses are to be found... in those institutions, societies and associations -- even the most reactionary—in which proletarian or semi-proletarian masses are to be found"

but I was wondering if the involvement of Trotsky in the debates arround the early SWP might provide some information on the preconditions of involvment in "reactionary" organisations. Any info would be great, thanks.

[BobKKKindle$]

One of the ways in which involvement in the currently existing political system and radical leftist politics are compatible is that gaining representation allows us to make transitional demands - meaning demands, often for the provision of basic services, that cannot be met within the boundaries within the Capitalist mode of production and thus in making them, we can expose the flaws and shortcomings of Capitalism. Of course, being represented in a legislative assembly is not a pre-condition for making legislative demands, as non-governmental organisations and other interest groups often call upon the government to represent their views - but political representation certainly enhances the effectivness of transitional demands by virtue of the accepted legitimacy of the bourgeois political institutions.

[The Grey Blur]

Bobkindles what the hell are you talking about? - The discussion isn't about representation in bourgeois parliaments but rather intervention in reactionary organisations. Two entirely different things.

My thoughts on it are basically summed up by Lenin - we must participate in all mass proleterian "institutions, societies and organisations" whether revolutionary or reactionary - football clubs would be a modern day example of this. An extremely important part of intervention is of course retaining an independent viewpoint (a critical Marxist one).

[boxinghefner]

[we must participate in all mass proleterian "institutions, societies and organisations" whether revolutionary or reactionary - football clubs would be a modern day example of this. An extremely important part of intervention is of course retaining an independent viewpoint (a critical Marxist one).

yus, I wouldn't dispute that.

I'm interested in how we do this though - how it has been done historically, I'll have a look over my copy of 'History of American Trotskyism' though I wondered if there were any other helpful historical examples that show how it should be done.

For example, the lack democracy of the Labour Party historically and the role of groups within it.

[Whitten]

The Labour party long ago reacted to trotskyist entryism by abandoning all shreds of intra-party democracy. The labour party is way beyond salvagable. Plus a vote for labour is a vote for warcimes.