Minutemen murder three in Arizona

[Guerrilla22]

TUCSON, Ariz. - Gunmen stopped a pickup truck full of immigrants, shot some and took the rest captive Thursday in an attack that left at least three men dead and two people wounded, authorities said.



Authorities were trying to determine who the gunmen were and said some of the immigrants remained missing.

The men shot three people, one fatally, along a known smuggling corridor near Tucson, then forced several other immigrants in the group to leave with them, Pima County sheriff's officials said.

The bodies of two of those immigrants were found about 10 miles north in the cab of the pickup truck that had been carrying the group.

Two men who were not injured were in custody and telling deputes what happened, and the other immigrants had not been found by midday Thursday.

The crime was similar to a robbery Wednesday night more than 70 miles south, near the Mexican border, said Rick Kastigar, the Pima County sheriff's criminal investigations chief. In that incident, four men carrying assault weapons and wearing ski masks robbed 18 immigrants, but no one was reported injured.

Investigators did not immediately know a motive for Thursday's attack, but gangs of bandits are known to roam border areas preying on illegal immigrants as they cross into the country. Feuding among smuggling organizations also is not uncommon, sometimes involving demands for ransoms from the immigrants relatives to gain their freedom.

Thursday morning's attack occurred on a dirt road near the Silverbell Mine, about 20 miles northwest of Tucson, said Rick Kastigar, the Pima County sheriff's criminal investigations chief.

The immigrants were heading north when four men armed with assault rifles in another vehicle forced the truck to stop, Kastigar said. During the confrontation, one man was killed, another was shot in the hand — losing several fingers — and a woman was shot in the chest and suffered a neck injury.

The two wounded immigrants were taken to a hospital with "very, very serious injuries," said sheriff's Sgt. James Ogden.

[Phalanx]

These disgusting ****s are just getting worse. What the fuck is going on in their minds?

[Fawkes]

I haven't seen any of this stuff reported in the mainstream news.

[Guerrilla22]

Of course not. This article doesn't even propose that the Minutemen were resposible, instead whoever wrote it cites robbery as a possible motive, because immigrants are such attractive targets for robbery. :rolleyes: we all know those racist, assholes are resposible for this atrocity.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 01:33 am
I haven't seen any of this stuff reported in the mainstream news.
It was on google news for about three minutes before some other Anna Nicole Smith article came up.

I seriously want to go down to the Southwest and organize against these fuckwits.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 07:38 pm
because immigrants are such attractive targets for robbery. :rolleyes:
Actually, they'd be probably be carrying those things with them that they deemed most important, which would probably be of some value, don't you think?

I wouldn't put it past the Minuteklan, but bandits can't be discounted either.

[Phalanx]

I wouldn't put it past the Minuteklan, but bandits can't be discounted either.

I find it hard to believe bandits couldn't find a better target than extremely poor immigrants.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 08, 2007 07:54 pm

I wouldn't put it past the Minuteklan, but bandits can't be discounted either.

I find it hard to believe bandits couldn't find a better target than extremely poor immigrants.
Why? Immigrants are a pretty good target, given their already precarious situation. It isn't like there are many people to stop you in the border areas in the middle of the night and they'll be less likely to cooperate with the pigs for obvious reasons.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+February 09, 2007 01:56 am--> (black coffee black metal @ February 09, 2007 01:56 am)
Tatanka [email protected] 08, 2007 07:54 pm

I wouldn't put it past the Minuteklan, but bandits can't be discounted either.

I find it hard to believe bandits couldn't find a better target than extremely poor immigrants.
Why? Immigrants are a pretty good target, given their already precarious situation. It isn't like there are many people to stop you in the border areas in the middle of the night and they'll be less likely to cooperate with the pigs for obvious reasons. [/b]
I doubt bandits would kill victims then hold others hostage. This has definate smell of racism.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 08, 2007 08:00 pm
I doubt bandits would kill victims then hold others hostage. This has definate smell of racism.
The article mentions that immigrant smugglers have done this before to get ransoms from the victims families, so it is possible. Obviously racist motives are possible as well, I just think its better to learn more before jumping the gun. There are obviously ****s capable of this, and there is plenty of solid reason to oppose them without speculating and laying blame prematurely.

[MolotovLuv]

Are there any groups keeping track of the minutemens actions? Someone must be keeping an eye on these racist fucks.

[JKP]

Arm the immigrants.

[grove street]

I'm not American, but I see these minuite men being praised on Fox News all the time and how the government and other republicans/conservatives are supporting them is disgusting. It has a disturbing resemblance back in the days when the U.S government would support the KKK.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+February 09, 2007 02:07 am--> (black coffee black metal @ February 09, 2007 02:07 am)
Tatanka [email protected] 08, 2007 08:00 pm
I doubt bandits would kill victims then hold others hostage. This has definate smell of racism.
The article mentions that immigrant smugglers have done this before to get ransoms from the victims families, so it is possible. Obviously racist motives are possible as well, I just think its better to learn more before jumping the gun. There are obviously ****s capable of this, and there is plenty of solid reason to oppose them without speculating and laying blame prematurely. [/b]
If indeed it was the minutemen, it wouldn't be the firsr time their members have shot immigrants.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 09, 2007 01:54 am

I wouldn't put it past the Minuteklan, but bandits can't be discounted either.

I find it hard to believe bandits couldn't find a better target than extremely poor immigrants.

From my reading of the article, the "gangs of bandits ... known to roam border areas preying on illegal immigrants" are the Minutemen. That is, I can't think of any other group that could be described in such a way -- unless, of course, an ocean has suddenly sprung up by the border and Captain J. Hook has moved to there from Neverland.

So, really, it's not so hard to believe that said "bandits" would do this.*

What's pretty unlikely, to me anyway, is that this has something to do with smugglers. I really doubt professionals would take needless hostages and conduct such a, well, messy operation. Unless the article refers to people smugglers, not drug smugglers. :unsure:

As black coffee black metal said, I think it's probably best to wait till we know more.

*Though, thinking about it, it seems somewhat strange that the Minutemen would take hostages. A ritual type killing -- everyone shot in the back of the head whilst kneeling, for example -- yeah, but this?

[RNK]

Why the hell not? Ultra-radical Jewish settlers in Palestine kidnap and torture Palestinians and hold them for ransom, not as any sort of efficient way to get money but purely as a terror tactic. This isn't about taking them hostage to get something in return -- it is about instilling terror into their people.

Dude, you guys live in a country that contains more guns than people. Surely one of you must be able to get your hands on a hunting rifle and go snipe some of these sons of *****es. I know they hang around patrolling at 3AM -- perfect time to take one or two out in the middle of nowhere.

[Comrade_Scott]

man this shit is getting bad, we should go down there and fuck up those bastards i mean they have no right to do that and is minutemening?? legal if not all the more reason to fuck them up. i have fammily down there so if i ever visit ill take it upon myself to beat up some of these minutemen bastards because it started out bad but now its just sick and wrong

[seraphim]

Is it possible that criminal elements are charging the imigrants money to smuggle them in to the country then perhaps the same crims or others on a tip off are taking hostages in order to extract ransomes from the families making twice as much cash? It's been known to happen in Europe.

[dso79]

The gunmen spoke Spanish, so it probably wasn’t a racist attack.

It’s kinda stupid to just assume that the Minutemen were behind this, even though it’s widely known that there are plenty of other violent groups in that area.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Amusing [email protected] 09, 2007 01:33 am
From my reading of the article, the "gangs of bandits ... known to roam border areas preying on illegal immigrants" are the Minutemen. That is, I can't think of any other group that could be described in such a way
Common criminals?

Immigrants, going either way, often carry a lot of cash - both to pay smugglers and because they don't trust the U.S. banking system.

If this was Minuteman types it's a new level of atrocity for them.

[Janus]

both to pay smugglers and because they don't trust the U.S. banking system.
Those crossing into the US should've already paid the coyotes and thus wouldn't have much except their clothing and an opportunity for a job somewhere. It's a different story for those crossing back into Mexico though.

As for whether or not it was done by the Minutemen, I would say that it's highly possible. If not, it would be a group that holds similar beliefs and goals.


Arm the immigrants.
Some of them are armed with hunting weapons,etc. which is why the border has gotten a lot more dangerous. Escalating the conflict is definitely not the way to go especially as that will only benefit the Minutemen and other anti-immigration groups.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

severian is absolutely right

Even poor Mexican emigrants take some money with them when they cross the border. Often there is also drug and human trafic over the border. Those folks have plenty to steal from.

The coyotes may have alredy been payed, but they can also be robbed, can they not?

[refuse_resist]

This was obviously the Minutemen, National Vangaurd, Aryan Nations, KKK, Stormfront, etc. All of these groups have had (or currently have) people armed at the border ready to kill immigrants. I highly doubt the drug smugglers and coyotes are a bunch of white guys who go around dressed up in military fatigues and berets.

All of these groups have stated that if it was up to them, their immigration policy would be to shoot on sight and kill anyone who crosses the border.

According to this other article...


One shot and killed, another wounded, in attack on immigrants
The Arizona Republic / Feb. 2, 2007

Authorities are searching for four men who attacked 12 undocumented immigrants, killed an Eloy man and shot a Mexican youth, Pinal County Sheriff's Office officials said.

Authorities said the man who was killed was driving a pickup truck containing 12 undocumented immigrants late Saturday in an Eloy farm field when four heavily armed men in a white van began firing on them.

All four men were wearing military-style berets, camouflage pants and shirts, authorities said.

Continued (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0202pinalraid0202c.html)

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Severian+February 09, 2007 10:41 pm--> (Severian @ February 09, 2007 10:41 pm)
Amusing [email protected] 09, 2007 01:33 am
From my reading of the article, the "gangs of bandits ... known to roam border areas preying on illegal immigrants" are the Minutemen. That is, I can't think of any other group that could be described in such a way
Common criminals? [/b]

Perhaps. But it seems a touch far fetched to think that "common criminals" would take anyone hostage. The only people I can see doing that, are sex traffickers -- and I didn't think they were as prevalent in America as they are in Europe.

All seems very strange, to be honest.

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:36 am
This was obviously the Minutemen, National Vangaurd, Aryan Nations, KKK, Stormfront, etc. All of these groups have had (or currently have) people armed at the border ready to kill immigrants. I highly doubt the drug smugglers and coyotes are a bunch of white guys who go around dressed up in military fatigues and berets.

All of these groups have stated that if it was up to them, their immigration policy would be to shoot on sight and kill anyone who crosses the border.

According to this other article...


One shot and killed, another wounded, in attack on immigrants
The Arizona Republic / Feb. 2, 2007

Authorities are searching for four men who attacked 12 undocumented immigrants, killed an Eloy man and shot a Mexican youth, Pinal County Sheriff's Office officials said.

Authorities said the man who was killed was driving a pickup truck containing 12 undocumented immigrants late Saturday in an Eloy farm field when four heavily armed men in a white van began firing on them.

All four men were wearing military-style berets, camouflage pants and shirts, authorities said.

Continued (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0202pinalraid0202c.html)
I swear those damn fascist types are getting bolder, we seriously need to organize groups to hunt those bastards down.

[Question everything]

...I thought that there was a conter-movement what happened to the workers shouting solidarity to the immigrants as the INS came for them? to every immigrant in the US taking to the streets?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 01:36 am
I highly doubt the drug smugglers and coyotes are a bunch of white guys who go around dressed up in military fatigues and berets.
See, you just made up the "white guys". And your article is over a week old, and actually refers to a different incident that the one at the top of the thread. (Though the two incidents may well be related.)

You gotta base your conclusions on fact, not just jump to whatever's convenient or you want to believe.

A local news item from today (http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=6066399)
Doesn't say anyone was abducted. Maybe there's some question about that?


Perhaps. But it seems a touch far fetched to think that "common criminals" would take anyone hostage. The only people I can see doing that, are sex traffickers -- and I didn't think they were as prevalent in America as they are in Europe.

Hello? People smugglers routinely do it until they get paid. (Sex trafficking is often a form of people smuggling, of course.) And people smuggling is even more common along the U.S.-Mexican border than anywhere else. (Also, this is the U.S., people have guns.)

Illegal business always breeds all kinds of violent crime, because rival businesses can't go to the cops or courts to settle their disputes. Whether it's drugs or immigration that's banned, the violent crime is a result of the ban - and the solution is legalization.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:22 am
I swear those damn fascist types are getting bolder, we seriously need to organize groups to hunt those bastards down.
If you want to start a gunfight with the racists in America, you're going to lose.

[Guerrilla22]

It may be pre-mature to assign guilt in this incident, however the minutemen are amongst the most likely culprits.

[ComradeR]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+February 10, 2007 05:59 pm--> (black coffee black metal @ February 10, 2007 05:59 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 07:22 am
I swear those damn fascist types are getting bolder, we seriously need to organize groups to hunt those bastards down.
If you want to start a gunfight with the racists in America, you're going to lose. [/b]
True but not being able to do much in the way of actually stopping these sobs while they're gaining strength is infuriating.

[Janus]

The coyotes may have alredy been payed, but they can also be robbed, can they not?
Yes, but they're usually better armed and much less hard to find.