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DiggerII
8th February 2007, 06:21
I have a couple questions pertaining to CPUSA, SPUSA, and the magazine ISR (International Socialist Review)

First of all. I've read up about CPUSA and of course I've heard it got loads of Soviet aid and was incredibly corrupt. Comments?

I've read all about SPUSA and i must admit i like it. What does everyone think of this party?

Finally I'd like to ask everyone about ISR. Do you think this is a viable and respectable Socialist voice in the U.S.?

-thanks

fidel59
8th February 2007, 11:42
I was a member of cpusa and I dont know what they do other than try to get the dem. elected. The spusa just open a breach here in Chattanooga TN, not alot of socialist parties here, as far as I know there the only game in town. I've read the party statements and they seem ok. So I'm sure I'll be working with them becase we need lefts parties doing more in the south.

MrDoom
8th February 2007, 12:53
Most here will agree that bourgeois elections are BS and the CPUSA is a liberal joke filled with Groucho Marxists.

Janus
8th February 2007, 23:00
First of all. I've read up about CPUSA and of course I've heard it got loads of Soviet aid and was incredibly corrupt. Comments?
Never heard of any cases of corruption but the CPUSA is a reformist party now and hardly revolutionary at the least.


I've read all about SPUSA and i must admit i like it. What does everyone think of this party?
Democratic socialists thus making them even more reformist than the CPUSA.


Finally I'd like to ask everyone about ISR. Do you think this is a viable and respectable Socialist voice in the U.S.?
Among the general populace, no. But it's a pretty nice mag. and has some good articles.

RGacky3
9th February 2007, 02:08
Most Socialist parties in the US are a joke, After Debs Socialist Parties Kind of died.

manic expression
9th February 2007, 02:12
They are not revolutionary at all, but that's not the whole picture. Working with CPUSA or SPUSA and trying to tilt them in a revolutionary direction might be something to try. Has anyone attempted entryism?

At any rate, having two reformist parties that can be worked with is better than nothing IMO.

R_P_A_S
9th February 2007, 04:12
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 11:00 pm

First of all. I've read up about CPUSA and of course I've heard it got loads of Soviet aid and was incredibly corrupt. Comments?
Never heard of any cases of corruption but the CPUSA is a reformist party now and hardly revolutionary at the least.


I've read all about SPUSA and i must admit i like it. What does everyone think of this party?
Democratic socialists thus making them even more reformist than the CPUSA.


Finally I'd like to ask everyone about ISR. Do you think this is a viable and respectable Socialist voice in the U.S.?
Among the general populace, no. But it's a pretty nice mag. and has some good articles.
Here is what I don't get... a couple of days ago I made a thread about "reforms" and how I feel that they slow down the movement, YES they do help out. but.. anyways here is the post..

Reforms, do they ultimately make us lazy? (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=62291&hl=)

The more I read. the more I see people are NOT keen to reforms. I'm not either.. like I said. YES they do help.. BUT Is just an other way for the ruling class to "settle us down" and we ultimately steer away from the ultimate PURPOSE, Revolutionary change!

SO! let me get this straight... Do we then OPPOSE and don't see EYE 2 EYE, we don't support these so call socialist parties? AT ALL.. just because they aren't 100% for Revolution? What do we want from a "socialist party" then??? enlighten me! PLEASE

whats better? what should be done then? If all we do is criticize those party because..whatever reason! I don't see anyone here talking about an alternative???

whats the deal then?

this is why we are no united. this is why nothing gets done. all we do is talk shit at the other "leftist" because they aren't "LEFT" enough.

The Grey Blur
9th February 2007, 10:14
The only way to further a revolution in America is to join an existing organisation and propogate Socialism in as many and as open ways as possible. I see in a few years time, in a more revolutionary climate, these hundreds of tiny sects boiling down into two or three larger representatives of the Left.

I'm not from America and have only talked to a few American comrades of mine though.

Everyday Anarchy
9th February 2007, 21:48
SO! let me get this straight... Do we then OPPOSE and don't see EYE 2 EYE, we don't support these so call socialist parties? AT ALL.. just because they aren't 100% for Revolution? What do we want from a "socialist party" then??? enlighten me! PLEASEThink for yourself! Do you think you should support these so called Socialist parties? What do you want from a "Socialist party?" You have to think for yourself man. As long as you're thinking for yourself, you can't be wrong. If you think you should support them, then support them. If not, then don't.
Lose the herd mentality, it's destructive.



whats better? what should be done then? If all we do is criticize those party because..whatever reason! I don't see anyone here talking about an alternative???What do you think is better? What do you think should be done? Can you think of an alternative? Do you even think you should criticize those parties?

Janus
9th February 2007, 22:21
SO! let me get this straight... Do we then OPPOSE and don't see EYE 2 EYE, we don't support these so call socialist parties? AT ALL.. just because they aren't 100% for Revolution? What do we want from a "socialist party" then??? enlighten me! PLEASE
We don't "want" anything from a "socialist party". It's one thing to work/cooperate with them and another to support their ideology. The fact of the matter is that we as radical leftists believe that their sense of reform is simply not going to get us anywhere. It's not going to fundamentally change society, in fact it won't come close. All that they can hope to achieve is to make capitalism a bit more humane.


whats better? what should be done then? If all we do is criticize those party because..whatever reason! I don't see anyone here talking about an alternative???
What? That's what this whole board is about: an alternative to reformism by bringing about true change through mass action. The proletariat can't expect the political parties to do this for them, they must do it for themselves.

Now, you might say that the democratic socialists have good intentions but it's not ideas that matter but actions. And if all they seek to do is create a lighter form of capitalism managed by the state then how does that fundamentally change our lives when exploitation and oppression still exist? It may be more "realistic" but arguing that we should only support "realistic" changes is only self-destructive towards our long-term goals.


whats the deal then?

this is why we are no united. this is why nothing gets done. all we do is talk shit at the other "leftist" because they aren't "LEFT" enough.
You're right, the radical left does certainly have a tendency towards inner squabblings but this is inevitable in many radical groups who have very strict lines. But at the end of the day, our goals still remain the same and that is what we should look at rather than whether or not another group has the same view on some petty issue as us.

Janus
9th February 2007, 22:23
Working with CPUSA or SPUSA and trying to tilt them in a revolutionary direction might be something to try. Has anyone attempted entryism?
That's somewhat difficult to do in parties such as the CPUSA which believe strongly in party discipline and a party line. It's much more realistic to attempt it with members on an individual level.

Severian
9th February 2007, 22:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 12:21 am
First of all. I've read up about CPUSA and of course I've heard it got loads of Soviet aid and was incredibly corrupt.
That's not especially true. It did get some Soviet aid. But the main reason that the CPUSA acted as a tool of Soviet foreign policy is because its members honestly believed that the USSR was the "workers fatherland" and anything that was good for the Kremlin was good for the workers of the world.

On that basis they followed every twist and turn of Soviet foreign policy, which most of the time meant supporting the more peaceable-seeming capitalist politicians. The road to complete political rottenness is paved with good intentions.




I've read all about SPUSA and i must admit i like it. What does everyone think of this party?
Democratic socialists thus making them even more reformist than the CPUSA.

Actually, no. The SPUSA is slightly to the left of the CPUSA - they don't always endorse Democrats for office.

And there are tendencies in the SPUSA who probably think of themselves as revolutionary. But the reformists will always manage to be the main face of the party - they have the famous names, the connections, and so forth. Even if the more radical elements won a vote at some conference, it wouldn't bind anyone or mean anything.


They are not revolutionary at all, but that's not the whole picture. Working with CPUSA or SPUSA and trying to tilt them in a revolutionary direction might be something to try. Has anyone attempted entryism?

A few people in the SPUSA. There's not much point since these are small groups - they don't have a mass working-class base like the French CP has, or like the British Labour Party used to.

That reduces both your chances of affecting them (a smaller, more ideologically cohesive, more middle-class membership) and how much you'd gain from doing so. I gotta say long-term entryism even in other countries hasn't produced revolutionary organizations.

ISR is the publication of the International Socialists Organization, I think. Not the worst organization out there, but certainly not revolutionary or working-class either. It's largely college-based, and thoroughly involved in supporting the middle-class, purely reform-oriented, economic nationalist Nader campaigns.

I'm all for fighting for reforms, as a means of building a revolutionary movement. Gaining experience at fighting.

But that supposes the political independence of the working class - something all of these groups (CPUSA, SPUSA, ISO) have abandoned by supporting big-business or middle-class candidates.

The organization I'd recommend most is the Socialist Workers Party (http://www.themilitant.com/direct.shtml). You can see how to contact a branch near you here (http://www.themilitant.com/direct.shtml)

R_P_A_S
10th February 2007, 00:36
Originally posted by Everyday [email protected] 09, 2007 09:48 pm

SO! let me get this straight... Do we then OPPOSE and don't see EYE 2 EYE, we don't support these so call socialist parties? AT ALL.. just because they aren't 100% for Revolution? What do we want from a "socialist party" then??? enlighten me! PLEASEThink for yourself! Do you think you should support these so called Socialist parties? What do you want from a "Socialist party?" You have to think for yourself man. As long as you're thinking for yourself, you can't be wrong. If you think you should support them, then support them. If not, then don't.
Lose the herd mentality, it's destructive.



whats better? what should be done then? If all we do is criticize those party because..whatever reason! I don't see anyone here talking about an alternative???What do you think is better? What do you think should be done? Can you think of an alternative? Do you even think you should criticize those parties?
I'm still trying to figure all this out my damn self. I don't claim to be more marxist or left than the next man. Like some people here. I just barely got into this side of politics in May of last year.
I ask a lot of question, read, study and think for my self...eventually I end up making my own decisions. however this is such a broad subject that is taking me longer than expected. theres a lot to learn out there. and many people who know what they are talking about. and many people who are just angry with no cause..

R_P_A_S
10th February 2007, 00:39
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 10:21 pm

SO! let me get this straight... Do we then OPPOSE and don't see EYE 2 EYE, we don't support these so call socialist parties? AT ALL.. just because they aren't 100% for Revolution? What do we want from a "socialist party" then??? enlighten me! PLEASE
We don't "want" anything from a "socialist party". It's one thing to work/cooperate with them and another to support their ideology. The fact of the matter is that we as radical leftists believe that their sense of reform is simply not going to get us anywhere. It's not going to fundamentally change society, in fact it won't come close. All that they can hope to achieve is to make capitalism a bit more humane.


whats better? what should be done then? If all we do is criticize those party because..whatever reason! I don't see anyone here talking about an alternative???
What? That's what this whole board is about: an alternative to reformism by bringing about true change through mass action. The proletariat can't expect the political parties to do this for them, they must do it for themselves.

Now, you might say that the democratic socialists have good intentions but it's not ideas that matter but actions. And if all they seek to do is create a lighter form of capitalism managed by the state then how does that fundamentally change our lives when exploitation and oppression still exist? It may be more "realistic" but arguing that we should only support "realistic" changes is only self-destructive towards our long-term goals.


whats the deal then?

this is why we are no united. this is why nothing gets done. all we do is talk shit at the other "leftist" because they aren't "LEFT" enough.
You're right, the radical left does certainly have a tendency towards inner squabblings but this is inevitable in many radical groups who have very strict lines. But at the end of the day, our goals still remain the same and that is what we should look at rather than whether or not another group has the same view on some petty issue as us.
thanks for taking time to READ my questions and actually UNDERSTAND them. I see how I still miss the small details..small details which amount to a great deal! I understand now more of what you mean. and how I should look for this things!

Janus
10th February 2007, 23:59
Actually, no. The SPUSA is slightly to the left of the CPUSA - they don't always endorse Democrats for office.
I've never heard of the CPUSA endorsing Democrats. I would think that they would be endorsing their own members.

Severian
11th February 2007, 01:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 05:59 pm

Actually, no. The SPUSA is slightly to the left of the CPUSA - they don't always endorse Democrats for office.
I've never heard of the CPUSA endorsing Democrats. I would think that they would be endorsing their own members.
I'm amazed you don't know this. The CPUSA has been endorsing Democrats, openly or tacitly, since 1936. Occasionally they run their own token campaigns too.

Check out some of the CPUSA/YCL stuff that Johnny Anarcho posted in OI, or their website, or any of their literature.

Janus
11th February 2007, 02:02
I'm amazed you don't know this. The CPUSA has been endorsing Democrats, openly or tacitly, since 1936. Occasionally they run their own token campaigns too.
In terms of policies, no I haven't heard of it. But in terms of supporting their candidates as a tactical option then yes, I have seen that (with their recent support of Kerry). I assumed you were talking about the former because a lot of so called communist parties have been endorsing bourgeois politicians whether explicitly or implicitly.

OneBrickOneVoice
11th February 2007, 02:19
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 06:21 am
I have a couple questions pertaining to CPUSA, SPUSA, and the magazine ISR (International Socialist Review)

First of all. I've read up about CPUSA and of course I've heard it got loads of Soviet aid and was incredibly corrupt. Comments?

I've read all about SPUSA and i must admit i like it. What does everyone think of this party?

Finally I'd like to ask everyone about ISR. Do you think this is a viable and respectable Socialist voice in the U.S.?

-thanks
No, these parties are reformist, essentially left-democrats. I am active with the Revolutionary Communist Party (http://revcom.us/). Other serious revolutionary organizations in the US are the Free People's Movement (http://www.fpm-mgl.org/),Party for Socialism and Liberation (http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer), and the Progressive Labor Party (http://plp.org/)

Wanted Man
19th February 2007, 09:25
To throw in some more names and links:

Workers World (http://www.workers.org/)
FRSO (http://www.frso.org/)
PSL (http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer)

Take your picks! :D

Honggweilo
19th February 2007, 13:06
FRSO (original branch) (http://freedomroad.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/lang,en/) - btw a RCP-USA splitt (what, what, what? a RCP splitt splitt again!? , JK :P. But both FRSO's are good organisations anyway)