Dictator of the Proletariat

[Guest]

First, PEACENICKED, I see you're ragging on the A's again. Ideological unity??

So, here's a question for ya--- I was discussing with a fellow-Marxist anarchist a hypothetical transitional period of moving things over from a state bureaucracy to a decentralized power melt-down, ... the proposed time-limit was 20 years top. Could this be a reasonable amount of time to see the "withering away of the state" (Sure is taking a long time... all those purist marxist dictators withering away to their graves before the all-mighty state.)

[Guest]

The above was posted by Paris. My log-in is not working.

[peaccenicked]

honestly I dont know what time limit. What time limit wolud you give on defeating cancer.
What is all this endless bull about marxist dictators.
The dictatorsip of the proletariat as opposed to the dictatorship of bthe bourgeoisie is a thousand times more democratic, if it is not being squeezed to death by the military might of imperialism.
Why not try to understand the concepts you criticise before using bourgeois throw away lines.

[Valkyrie]

That's a lame answer comrade.

[El Che]

Long live representative democracy.

[MJM]

I'll take the dictatorship of the proleteriat any day over the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
I think the time limit to wither away the state would be closer to 150 years personally. Humanities lack of patience is the real hurdle here, the instant gratification we all seem to crave.
Perhaps with a vigilant and patient anarchist movement working along side the D.O.P things may work better than in the past. Obviosly past mistakes shouldn't be made again.

[Michael De Panama]

Any imposed authority results in the developement of yet another class system. Therefore, any imposed dictatorship can be compared to the fueds between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. Therefore, to have a proletariat dictatorship is the same thing as having a bourgeoisie.

That's how I see it.

[honest intellectual]

You're failing to see it in the context of a classless society

[TheDerminator]

All these threads on the dictatorship of the proletariat.
Heavy man!
Wicked threads man! These dudes are wearing us down El Che and peaccenicked. Maybe we should start up a new thread each day just out of respect! Durp!

Paris,

Can't say I am all that keen on any State other than an internationalist State, and is it really a State if all ownership of industry is community ownership, rather than State ownership. The Socialist State has to by its own definition become a world State.
As for the withering away of the State, it can only occur when there is a common socialist ethos on the whole planet, so that there is complete trust in every individual empowered as an administrator. When we can trust everyone to be incorruptable, when we can trust everyone never to abuse power, we can leave administration to the computers as much as possible, and all get on with our lives. Who knows what breakthroughs technology can develop in the future, and the more accessible it is the easier it will be to share administrative tasks amongst the people.
At the moment the technology and the trust do not exact nor does an advanced socialist society. No time limit. You do not put a time limit on Freedom, and that is not a cop out, just a fact. Socialism is about the attainment of freedom. Sometimes it is less speed more haste. (We are not panickers like the anarchists).
Michael De Panama,
The working class are the majority. The working class are the oppressed. It is up to socialists from other classes to join them in their struggle to end that oppression, and win the rule of the majority. Once that has been accomplished there will be no classes. You are mechanically adapting hegemony of class, instead of seeing the true nature of oppression.

May the Force with U!

derminated

[Michael De Panama]

Oh! So inequality isn't so bad as long as we get the better half!

[peaccenicked]

yes. The choice at first is either workers power or capitalist power.
Only workers power can achieve equality and abolish classes and eventially abolish inter-personal power relations completely.

[TITOMAn]

yes. The choice at first is either workers power or capitalist power.
Only workers power can achieve equality and abolish classes and eventially abolish inter-personal power relations completely.


Yes, but democacy can only be achieved, when workers rule. When workers make laws, not the president.

[TheDerminator]

Michael De Panama?

The better half?

The interests of the majority are always the greater interests, and I would make the case that the long term interests of the bourgeiosie are also taken on board. It is the common interests of the whole of humanity to rid itself of alienated brutal society. The bourgeois individual is an alienated brutalised human being, and it is not in her/his interests to remain so, or to condemn children to that fate.
U see power for its own sake, rather than power of the sake of the greater interests of humanity.

TITOMAn,

No one is suggesting the negation of democracy. The workers can hold any government accountable in a socialist democracy. At the same time, I would rather entrust President Marx, than U placing your vote in a referendum. Sorry, but U aint Karl Marx.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Resistance is Futile!

May the Force be with U!

derminated