Surveillence Cameras

[SocialistGenius]

I want to make it clear that I am not a reformist.

However, recently several cities in the county where I live, in Arizona, have begun placing surveillence cameras on traffic lights as well as similar cameras equipped with radar at various locations throughout the city streets, highways, and freeways.
These cameras take pictures of the license plates and drivers of people allegedly running red lights or speeding, and then mail the ticket to the suspect.

Comrades of mine may have engaged in some acts of sabatoge on these fascist tools, but if so, it was with limited success.

I am now in the process of filing a lawsuit against these cities, representing myself (termed a "Pro Se" or "Pro Per" litigant), in the Superior Court of Arizona. I am doing legal research on rights of privacy, etc. Although I am hopeful of a favorable outcome, I am a realist who understands that using the tools of the very system against itself is more often than not futile.

My main argument at this point rests on the fact that the cameras are owned and operated by a private firm, who, along with the cameras themselves, are acting as defacto agents of the government, or more specifically, de facto agents of law enforcement.

The ironic thing is that I worked for a company who a few years ago had affiliations with the company who owns and operates these cameras. I won't go into what sort of business we did with them, except that during the course of that business, it was revealed to me that several employees of the firm were handling the photographs somewhat, let's say, unprofessionally. I don't know if the fact that I worked for a company who worked with this company is a conflict of interest, and I probably can't use my own memories regarding this in court (I'd probably have to find a co-worker from that period of time who is willing to testify).

Anyway, what do you all think of this? Am I wasting my time? I feel I have to do something. With facial recognition technology becoming more advanced every year, what's to say these cameras won't be used to find anyone who has a 5-year old warrant for marijuana possession and dispatch police squad cars to their location? Or do the same thing for anyone on some sort of government list of "terrorists", or "bad people" who haven't even committed a crime. Or simply tracking the day to day activities of civilians; where they go, what they do, etcetera. With the advancement of facial recognition technology, and the expansion of cameras, it could become impossible for a human to live his or her life day-to-day without succumbing to the forces of a fascist-style police state.

I realize that revolution is the solution to all of these problems, however one cannot force capitalism to collapse, capitalism will collapse under it's own weight. In the interim, we can work to hasten this process, but we also must work to make sure that in the mean time, our daily lives are free of such police-state antics as surveillence cameras on every street corner.

[Comrade Marcel]

Good luck.

[ahab]

I personally would advise against using the court system because one its going to be a waste of money and time and two their just going to throw a 'homeland security' excuse in your face. I would say **but do not endorse** getting a group of comrades, masking up and destroying as many of these camera's as you can.



however one cannot force capitalism to collapse, capitalism will collapse under it's own weight.

thats the attitude that gets us no where, we cant all just sit around and wait for capitalism to collapse, we have to make it!

[Fawkes]

I remember once reading an article about people in the U.K. that actually would go so far as to blow up the cameras. In fact, for a test last year I had to write an essay on surveillance cameras and oddly enough, my old school now has them. Anyway, good luck that.

[Anton]

Good luck to you comrade.
Yeah, surveillance cameras are definitely police-state antics.
I'm planning to move to the UK in a couple of years, but i've been reading up and apparently many cities are really densely covered by the cameras. Something about the average person in the UK is filmed on surveillance camera about 300 times a day.
also, they are doing an experiment of putting cameras with speakers up and the people watching you can shout at you through the cameras - scary shit for many psychological reasons.
Here's an Article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=405477&in_page_id=1770)

[welshred]

Yep people do blow them up. In northern ireland they are put in catholic areas and often cet cut down, set them on fire and blow them up.

[Whitten]

You reallise that you could just not speed right? It would save you money, theres no risk of getting arrested for it, and who knows, you may end up not killing someone...

[welshred]

Speed cameras are just money making schemes.

[Anton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:05 pm
You reallise that you could just not speed right? It would save you money, theres no risk of getting arrested for it, and who knows, you may end up not killing someone...
you realize that the point of the discussion isn't speeding bu the police-state style surveillance cameras?
Or are you one of those "if i'm not doing anything wrong i have nothing to worry about" idiots?

[Fawkes]

Yeah, the problem isn't why the cameras are there, it's the fact that they are there and invading people's privacy.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Anton+February 07, 2007 06:31 pm--> (Anton @ February 07, 2007 06:31 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 01:05 pm
You reallise that you could just not speed right? It would save you money, theres no risk of getting arrested for it, and who knows, you may end up not killing someone...
you realize that the point of the discussion isn't speeding bu the police-state style surveillance cameras?
Or are you one of those "if i'm not doing anything wrong i have nothing to worry about" idiots? [/b]
If your not speeding whats the problem?


Fawkes
Yeah, the problem isn't why the cameras are there, it's the fact that they are there and invading people's privacy.

The camera's are outside in public areas where anyone can watch or see you. You cant walk outside and sue everyone who sees you claiming they violated your right to privacy by being there, the same should be true for the speed cameras.

[Fawkes]

If your not speeding whats the problem?
That you're getting watched and recorded by a video camera.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 07:14 pm

If your not speeding whats the problem?
That you're getting watched and recorded by a video camera.
As opposed to being watched by the hundreds of other potential people with eyes who could happen to see you?

[Revalation]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 05:22 pm
Yep people do blow them up. In northern ireland they are put in catholic areas and often cet cut down, set them on fire and blow them up.
your dam right we do. fuck interface surveillience

[welshred]

that doesnt matter, it what it could lead to. Like the x ray cameras in lamposts.

[Revalation]

Originally posted by Revalation+February 07, 2007 07:32 pm--> (Revalation @ February 07, 2007 07:32 pm)
[email protected] 07, 2007 05:22 pm
Yep people do blow them up. In northern ireland they are put in catholic areas and often cet cut down, set them on fire and blow them up.
your dam right we do. fuck interface surveillience [/b]
oh yea and fuck the roman catholic church. Irish catholic by birth Irish Republician by choice

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by Whitten+February 07, 2007 02:30 pm--> (Whitten @ February 07, 2007 02:30 pm)
[email protected] 07, 2007 07:14 pm

If your not speeding whats the problem?
That you're getting watched and recorded by a video camera.
As opposed to being watched by the hundreds of other potential people with eyes who could happen to see you? [/b]
Like Welshred said (that rhymed :) ), doing this opens the doors to future gov't intervention into our lives.

[welshred]

bigbrother springs to mind.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Fawkes+February 07, 2007 07:38 pm--> (Fawkes @ February 07, 2007 07:38 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 02:30 pm

[email protected] 07, 2007 07:14 pm

If your not speeding whats the problem?
That you're getting watched and recorded by a video camera.
As opposed to being watched by the hundreds of other potential people with eyes who could happen to see you?
Like Welshred said (that rhymed :) ), doing this opens the doors to future gov't intervention into our lives. [/b]
If these cameras dont cause a problem then allow them. Start blowing things up when they actually intrude into your lives.

[Fawkes]

It just sets a bad precedent in my mind.

[luxemburg89]

"also, they are doing an experiment of putting cameras with speakers up and the people watching you can shout at you through the cameras " I dunno how to do that quote thing so i'll just do it this way.

Whereabouts are they doing that? it's certainly not happening anywhere near me and i've never heard of it - that's not to say it isn't happening at all tho.

p.s. when you move here buy the Morning Star, it'll be at train stations and some newsagents - it needs the support and money.

[bcbm]

If your not speeding whats the problem?

I like to speed. And your argument is the same bullshit used to justify wiretapping, torture and all sorts of other nasty things.


The camera's are outside in public areas where anyone can watch or see you. You cant walk outside and sue everyone who sees you claiming they violated your right to privacy by being there, the same should be true for the speed cameras.

Your average person on the street generally isn't recording my actions, nor are they working for the government and being paid to monitor activities. And really, I just don't like the government to be watching me or recording me, ever, period and I see nothing wrong with that. Obviously the bosses do, because they view us all as potential criminals anyway and would love to lock us up- all the more reason to oppose this!

[SocialistGenius]

Thank you for the replies, comrades.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal
I like to speed.

Then I hope you get hit by a truck before you hit an innocent bystander.


And your argument is the same bullshit used to justify wiretapping, torture and all sorts of other nasty things.

Its completly different as wire tapping violates a private conversation, driving your car in public view cant be expected to provide privacy. And if you think speed cameras are some how on par with torture you need a head examination.


Your average person on the street generally isn't recording my actions, nor are they working for the government and being paid to monitor activities. And really, I just don't like the government to be watching me or recording me, ever, period and I see nothing wrong with that. Obviously the bosses do, because they view us all as potential criminals anyway and would love to lock us up- all the more reason to oppose this!

So you value how you feel about a minor detail beyond the lives of the people you may kill with your driving? Well your first sentence clearly shows you value your own enjoyment above those lives you may take, it shouldnt be suprising really.

[RNK]

oh yea and fuck the roman catholic church. Irish catholic by birth Irish Republician by choice

Please don't intrude into these forums with some religious/nationalistic hogwash. Hate the British because they're oppressing Ireland, not because they're Roman Catholics FFS (for the record, I'm Irish Catholic too)

Anyway yes there's a difference between you being seen walking down the street, which the average person is caught doing by eyesight 2350905 times a day, and having a private phone conversation listened into. What I don't like is this habit of some people to be utterly and completely against absolutely anything done by the government or any type of authority. Cameras are there, mainly, to prevent crime. Police are there, mainly, to fight crime. I suppose you also want to get rid of Fire Departments too? Afterall they're part of the establishment.

Rather than making a fuss about surveillance cameras and how you were once caught speeding by them, make a fuss about your country's involvement in the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis. Or the oppression of Ireland. Surely those are more important topics than you getting a speeding ticket. And please don't tell me that there won't be speed limits in a Communist society...

[Revalation]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 10:36 am

oh yea and fuck the roman catholic church. Irish catholic by birth Irish Republician by choice

Please don't intrude into these forums with some religious/nationalistic hogwash. Hate the British because they're oppressing Ireland, not because they're Roman Catholics FFS (for the record, I'm Irish Catholic too)


sorry mabey I used the wrong words. I was born a catholic i had no choice in the matter, i'm no longer a catholic as the roman catholic churh is bull shit. I am however a republician tho by choice of my own free will and i don't hate british people or religious people I hate the system of oppression that they where born into. And that i have to suffer because of it.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 02:34 am
Then I hope you get hit by a truck before you hit an innocent bystander.
Oh fuck off. Going 5-10 over isn't quite the same a drunk driving. I'm still in total control of my vehicle and always watch the road, and slow down in heavy pedestrian areas.



Its completly different as wire tapping violates a private conversation, driving your car in public view cant be expected to provide privacy. And if you think speed cameras are some how on par with torture you need a head examination.

I said it was the same argument, and it is. "If you haven't done anything wrong, what's the problem?" Sorry, but I think privacy is pretty fundamental and even in public, I think I should not be worried about being recorded.



So you value how you feel about a minor detail beyond the lives of the people you may kill with your driving? Well your first sentence clearly shows you value your own enjoyment above those lives you may take, it shouldnt be suprising really.

I've never even been in an accident. Driving a bit over the speed limit isn't the same as driving with reckless abandon, your argument is a logical fallacy if I ever saw one.


Hate the British because they're oppressing Ireland, not because they're Roman Catholics FFS

The British aren't Roman Catholic, they're Protestant. Anglican, specifically.

[BraveNewWorld]

Cameras are there, mainly, to prevent crime. Police are there, mainly, to fight crime. I suppose you also want to get rid of Fire Departments too? Afterall they're part of the establishment.

Exactly. I'm totaaly opposed to the British government but i dont hve a major problem with most cameras in the city where I live (except the ones that see us 'letting our hair down' on a Friday night....) Just because the camera is there does not mean that theirs some guy on the other end with your life history in front of him recording everything you do. Sounds like some people have caught the paranoia bug....

BraveNewWorld

[apathy maybe]

Cameras are there to prevent crime. But it isn't you or I who decide what constitutes crime. Besides, governments have a tendancy to want more and more power, if you let them have their cameras in public and record whatever they want, they will eventually get the tech to use computers to spot individuals. Good luck staying out of jail if you have ever committed a crime in that environment.

Besides, I commit crime all the time, I shoplift, I jaywalk, I graffiti and I do other little minor things that don't harm anyone. Take jaywalking for example, most cops turn a blind eye to it, but if they want to be bastards, they will. Do you want that possibility no matter what time of day it is or how many people are about?

Besides those small crimes, I fuck shit up, I go to protests and deliberately wreck government and corporate property. Even if I am talking solely as a self interested person, I hate cameras.

They don't stop crime, they are just another method of control. Why don't you read 1984 as well as Brave New World?