Value in service economies

[JazzRemington]

If those people in a service sector aren't creating any product, or exerting their labor power to create a good, what sort of value do they add to the products they handle? For example, what value does a bagger add to the products he bags or a stocker add to the goods he's stocking? Do they add any value at all? Or would he be to some extent like the capitalist, who adds no value at all?

[Enragé]

Ofcourse they add value cuz they aid the production process; without their work the produce is of less use to people (try to carry a pound of sugar back home if it isnt in a container of some sort, or what if you have to look 3 hours to find that sugar since nobody actually stocked and tell to you "you go find it at the back"... those 3 hours could be spent doing something useful)

As for bussdrivers for instance, they make life easier and transport people to work. That is valuable, it makes life better and more efficient.

[JazzRemington]

Well, technically I would argue that a capitalist produces value then because he assembled the necessary materials for the production of, say, a shoe. If it wasn't for him doing this, there would be no shoes. Within Capitalism, of course.

Or do we means value as in that labor that is applied directly to the production of a good that is useful to society? If that's true, then service sector doesn't add value because they don't apply their labor to the production of the good.

Another member, CFF, in live-chat told me this whole thing is just a product of capitalistm recycling massed wealth. Would that be true?

[Enragé]

Well, technically I would argue that a capitalist produces value then because he assembled the necessary materials for the production of, say, a shoe. If it wasn't for him doing this, there would be no shoes. Within Capitalism, of course.

no he didnt.

He told other people to go get it for him and bring it to this other place where he tells some other people to make a shoe out of it, which he then sells after having told other people to bring it to some store and sell it to other capitalist who is telling the people there to sell it for him.
And people dont need someone to tell them that, they can take care of that themselves, a capitalist can however not (and does not) does all the things which get him money.


Another member, CFF, in live-chat told me this whole thing is just a product of capitalistm recycling massed wealth. Would that be true?

i fail to see how.
Especially since the process of that "recycling" would then help the production of even more wealth since more wealth is in fact being produced, and well that isnt recycling

[The Bitter Hippy]

well the organization of all that is technically done by salaried managers and coordinators, in the grand scale of things. The capitalist merely provides them with the capital needed to create the shoes, and then takes the profit.

And whilst an IT help-centre worker doesn't actually make something, they add to the use-value of an item by providing the support that goes with it. A computer with a guarantee of on-the-phone tech support is more valuable and more useful than a computer without.

So its really a way for the capitalists to run all the money they paid in wages through an afterburner: extract a greater profit by exploiting people who charge for services for the primary and secondary workers.

[JazzRemington]

What I'm getting from this is that the service is to be treated just as another product, or commodity if you will. If that's true, then how can you measure the labor time necessary to render the service? Just as you can with the production of a tangible good?

[La Comédie Noire]

Even if they don't add value, does that stop them from being proles? people who live only so long as they can sell their labour power

Are they any less exploited?

Any hoo, as a service industry worker myself, I do believe my labour power adds value to a product. I mean who the hell would eat raw meat and cold, unwashed, unmashed, potatoes? No one. But when I exact my labour power upon them (washing, skinning, cooking, placing, serving) they become an acceptable commodity. Also my table side manner and general demeanor is expected to be a certain way. After all dinning is suppost to be an exprience. :rolleyes:

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:11 am
If those people in a service sector aren't creating any product, or exerting their labor power to create a good, what sort of value do they add to the products they handle?
"Value" is a concept entirely tied to capitalist production. It is also an entirely economic concept, and it is not a moral concept.

A teacher in a private school, for instance, produces value, because s/he produces a commodity, that can be, and is, sold by a capitalist. A teacher in a public school, on the other hand, is improductive, and produces no value, because s/he produces no commodity that can be sold.

So, when we say that some workers are "improductive", or that they "produce no value", we aren't saying that they are idlers, parasites, or bums. We are pointing to their specifical relationship with means of production, nothing more.


For example, what value does a bagger add to the products he bags or a stocker add to the goods he's stocking? Do they add any value at all?

If their work is embodied into sellable commodities, they do add value, and the value, like that of any other commodities, is the socially necessary labour time to produce such commodities. If they don't produce sellable commodities, then, no, they do not produce value.


Or would he be to some extent like the capitalist, who adds no value at all?

Not adding value is not what characterises a capitalist. What characterises a capitalist is his ownership of means of production, that enables him to hire labour, produce sellable commodities, extract surplus value, and acumulate capital. Improductive workers are nothing like capitalists; they do not own means of production, they do not produce sellable commodities for themselves (other than their own labour force), they do not extract surplus value from others, and they do not acumulate capital. They are workers, and members of the working class.

Luís Henrique

[rouchambeau]

I don't see what really distinguishes service sector workers from those that work in production. Both are necessary in getting raw material, transforming it, and getting it to the general populace.

[Lamanov]

Service itself is a commodity.