Segregation in the Prisons

[Red Menace]

Due to the increased violence in the prisons, would you consider it to be reactionary to segregate the prisons to reduce the violence. Most of the violence that happens in th prisons is racially motivated. The prisoners allready segregate themselves, but should the prison guards permanently segregate the prisoners? I bring this up because, I believe all the prisoners should be given the right to be and feel safe, regardless the crime.

[Luís Henrique]

Racial segregation is always reactionary.

Segregating distinct gangs may be unavoidable, to stop them from killing each others. But it still poses the problem: who is in power in jails, the State, or the prisoners and their gangs?

Luís Henrique

[Hate Is Art]

Prisons are reactionary. Segregation is reactionary. Mix the two and what do you get?

[Fawkes]

Any segregation due to race is reactionary because it reaffirms the notion that race exists.

[Revalation]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 08:32 pm
Any segregation due to race is reactionary because it reaffirms the notion that race exists.
seconded althought britian dos'nt really have the race problems in prision as amercia does except for northern ireland were some prisions segragate on the grounds of political beliefs

[Fawkes]

Yeah, American prisons are segregated horribly between blacks, whites, and latinos.

[rouchambeau]

Fawkes Posted on Yesterday at 08:32 pm
Any segregation due to race is reactionary because it reaffirms the notion that race exists.



Fawkes Posted on Yesterday at 08:47 pm
Yeah, American prisons are segregated horribly between blacks, whites, and latinos.

[Fawkes]

^^ What? The prison population in America is segregated on the grounds of skin color by the prisoners, not the wardens. I don't see the point in quoting those two things I said unless I misinterpreted what you meant.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

You said that race doesnt exist and than talk about how "different races" are segregated. You contradicted yourself.

Anyway, It is reactionary but if it stops most of the violence than it is a good idea.

[Fawkes]

No, I said race doesn't exist and then I said how prisoners segregate themselves by skin color, therefore, I in no way contradicted myself.

[rebelworker]

race is a problem in prisons, but its just a reflection of the problems in society.

I think any prison reform should be base on suggestions from the prison population.

Further segregation would probably just enforce the social problems that already exist.

Though Im not sure Im qualified to have n opinion on this, I grew up in an area where the prisons were filled with mostly white folks.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Fawkes,

What is race?

[Fawkes]

They seperate themselves by their skin color. Race doesn't exist but you would be an idiot to think that different people don't have different skin colors. Also, "race" is more than just skin color.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Your right!

race- a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

its where your from too.

[Fawkes]

Thank you, but I knew I was right :).

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 02:49 am
"race" is more than just skin color.
I thought you said race doesnt exist? So lets see...hmmm....so, according to you race doesnt exist but race is where your from and what color your skin is...right?

[Fawkes]

Notice how I put it in quotations. Race is defined as certain physical characteristics and biological differences among humans that make them biologically different from each other.

[Fawkes]

Also, this should probably be in Discrimination.

[RGacky3]

Race exists only as something made up in peoples mind to differentiate people, they exist as much as genres in music 'exist', so only in peoples minds and completely subjectively.

They should not segregate prisons, I don't think prisons should exist first of all, they just make violent people even more violent, What I hope would happen is the Prisoners unite and organize, even if it does'nt accomplish anything, it sends a strong message, Prisoners are people to, with human needs and wants.

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Pow R. Toc [email protected] 05, 2007 02:51 am
Your right!

race- a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

its where your from too.
All of us are related by common descent.

Luís Henrique

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 09:11 pm
Also, this should probably be in Discrimination.
Well I'm asking this based on theory, and whether this is a theory we should or shouldn't put into practice.

I meant by this theory only by keeping the prisoners safe. As a preemptive measure of protecting prisoners from attacks based soley upon race.

[Janus]

Studies have shown that overcrowding, overuse of solitary confinement i.e. official abuse, and budget cuts are much more significant causes for prison violence. As for the direct violence itself, gangs are responsible for the majority of it so it would be much more efficient to tackle the problems aboverather than try out racial segregation that most likely won't work out at all.

[Guerrilla22]

Prisons populations in the US, basically are divded along ethnic lines, its probaly a survival mechanism.

[chimx]

What you are proposing sounds more like treating a burn victim with hydrogen peroxide. It isn't getting to the root of the problem, and only going to make the victim sting a bit.

Isn't gang violence along racial lines within a prison simply a microcosm of perceived antagonisms outside of prisons? Impoverished people are told to see other ethnicities as the root of their problems. e.g. "affirmative action stole my job," "white preference has left me unemployed." This cultural baggage of interclass relationships simply works its way into prisons, where you already have a consolidation of individuals with a greater tendency for violence.

[colorlessman]

I think most American prisons are run by private companies who don't give a shit about the conditions in those places, as long as they make profits. Their belief is maximize security and cut everything else. These companies cut services and programs to increase their profits. In result leaving theses prisoners fighting for limited resources. When limited resources exist, clearly people will form groups to survive. skin color is the most obvious and noticeable thing to untie over. Hey you are white/black so we should stick together and fight those other baddies.

So, it is not race that is the root problem.


This thread reminds of American X.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 05:31 am
I think most American prisons are run by private companies who don't give a shit about the conditions in those places, as long as they make profits. Their belief is maximize security and cut everything else. These companies cut services and programs to increase their profits. In result leaving theses prisoners fighting for limited resources. When limited resources exist, clearly people will form groups to survive. skin color is the most obvious and noticeable thing to untie over. Hey you are white/black so we should stick together and fight those other baddies.

So, it is not race that is the root problem.


This thread reminds of American X.
How do u come to this conclusion? Private companies "employ" inmates to produce shit, but they don't operate or admistrate prisions, that's the state's or the federal government's role

[Councilman Doug]

Private companies "employ" inmates to produce shit, but they don't operate or admistrate prisions, that's the state's or the federal government's role


# CCA specializes in the design, building and management of prisons, jails and detention facilities and providing inmate residential and prisoner transportation services in partnership with government.
# The company is the fifth largest corrections system in the nation, behind only the federal government and three states.
Corrections Corporation of America (http://www.correctionscorp.com/aboutcca.html)

[Janus]

Private companies "employ" inmates to produce shit, but they don't operate or admistrate prisions, that's the state's or the federal government's role
There are different types of corporate control of the prison system. In addition to those prisons in which corporations simply employ prisoners are the prisons that are actually operated by corporations. And as this trend continues, we'll probably be seeing more of the latter in the future.

[Fawkes]

Doesn't the U.S. government basically act like a giant corporation when it comes to prisons? I mean, they still exploit the prisoners for their labor power.

[Hampton]

I think the idea of companies "employing" prisoners to make their shit is rather ridiclious. The average wage that they make is 25 cents to a little above the average min. wage in that state. The companies use these workers for cheap labor and it steals the work from those on the "outside". I'm not saying that that is always a bad thing, but it's probally not the best. I mean why take classes while in jail and earn a degree that can be used when you get out when you can earn a dollar an hour making an office chair?

Like two years ago the Supreme Court ruled against the practice of racially segregating inmates at state prisons. But, it still goes on with the excuse being that if the races mix there will be riots. Prisons are a tinderbox in general and as Janus pointed out, there are lots more reasons as to why prisoners might be angry about their current situation.

But segregation starts even before entering prison. It starts in the racially segregated ghettos that are chock full of gangs and that's where that mentality comes from. So when you go to jail, probally from some drug charge, you already have the mentality of needing to be in a gang of your same color. Prison is just an extention of the problem that is plaguing many communities and it certainly doesn't help the problem.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Councilman Doug+February 06, 2007 08:09 pm--> (Councilman Doug @ February 06, 2007 08:09 pm)
Private companies "employ" inmates to produce shit, but they don't operate or admistrate prisions, that's the state's or the federal government's role


# CCA specializes in the design, building and management of prisons, jails and detention facilities and providing inmate residential and prisoner transportation services in partnership with government.
# The company is the fifth largest corrections system in the nation, behind only the federal government and three states.
Corrections Corporation of America (http://www.correctionscorp.com/aboutcca.html) [/b]
Ahhh, though is this corp. isolated in its practices or are there more corporations who run and operate prisons?
Is this the only corp. doing this, or are there more?

Thanks for the link by the way




Janus
There are different types of corporate control of the prison system. In addition to those prisons in which corporations simply employ prisoners are the prisons that are actually operated by corporations. And as this trend continues, we'll probably be seeing more of the latter in the future.
Any examples or links man? I'd like to know the specifics...

[Die Rote Fahne]

Prison segregation is a complicated issue. It occurs due to gangs and racism.

[Luís Henrique]

No, I said race doesn't exist and then I said how prisoners segregate themselves by skin color, therefore, I in no way contradicted myself.

"Latino" isn't a skin colour.

Luís Henrique

[Black Dagger]

ou said that race doesnt exist and than talk about how "different races" are segregated. You contradicted yourself.

Anyway, It is reactionary but if it stops most of the violence than it is a good idea.

Huh? You said yourself it is reactionary! Executing half the prison population (or say, anyone who gets into a fight) would also stop the violence (well the inmate violence)... though that would be extremely reactionary, also a good idea? Basically, how can something reactionary be a 'good idea'? The point is - means matter - that is about as an indispensable revolutionary principal as you'll find - 'the end does not justify the means' - we are communists not opportunists, how can we use fascist ideas or strategies to realise a revolutionary society?

What use is a 'peaceful' prison (oxymoron) where the so-called peace is founded on confirming one of the most grotesque ideas ever to torment humanity? Not to mention the obvious fact that segregation is not a solution to anything - the problem is not proximity (which actually assists in undermining racism) but prejudice and the violent hierarchal 'clan' system of prison life. Segregation doesn't actually address anything, it's just like putting another prison around the inmates.


Prison segregation is a complicated issue. It occurs due to gangs and racism.

Why necro this thread for a five or six word response?

[Die Rote Fahne]

"Latino" isn't a skin colour.

Luís Henrique

I would assume he's referring to Brown peopel with latino culture.

Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, etc.

[manic expression]

I would assume he's referring to Brown peopel with latino culture.

Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, etc.

If he was, then now would be a good time for him to learn that there are many different skin colors among Mexicans and other Latino countries. I know a Mexican guy who most Americans would mistake for a white American if no one asked where he was from. I could go on, but the point is that not all Latinos are "Brown".