fuck all the marxist dogma on this board - believe it or not

[red head]

i'm getting sick of everyone on this board (including me) arguing about who's ideas are closest to marx's. it seems we all take for granted that marx was right about everything, and that all we can do is interperet and argue that our interperetation is best. then we set our divisions such as trotskyist, leninist, etc. and argue things like what marx meant by dictatorship of the proletariat. its like a bunch of baptists, catholics, and presbyterians arguing about whose ideas are closest to jesus's.
i think what we should be doing is arguing about whether marx was right or wrong, give our interperetations of different marxist ideas, and say whether we agree or disagree. this way, people new to socialism will get an idea of what goes along with it, veterans will question their ideas. its absurd to think that marx would be able to predict economic cycles over 100 years after his death (which he obviously hasn't) and he shouldn't be expected to. its about time the arguement "its what marx said" isn't a good enough reason to believe something.

[peaccenicked]

I prefer the term scientific socialist for many of the reasons you have outlined. I am not interested in following any person but Marx made important contributions to the development of thought as did many of the pioneers of the modern socialist movement.
We cant avoid thinking about them and learning from things they said but we should not make them into
something superhuman and avoid questioning their ideas. I use their thoughts to illuminate the present because their ideas are still relevant.
To days questions are more relevant than yesterdays
and we should not be stuck in the past, at the same time we cannot exist ahistorically.
We are not products of our minds but history.
We have a world to change.

[Moskitto]

I think the comparisons to Marx probably stem from the misconception that Socialism started with Marx.

[peaccenicked]

While what you say is true,
we still have to answer the question.
Why is Marx different from previous socialists.
This is described by Engels
http://csf.colorado.edu/psn/marx/Archive/1880-SUS/

[Moskitto]

The title explains it all.

[peaccenicked]

true enough, but it is a good read.

[honest intellectual]

Marx was primarily a theoritician. Unlike other prominent communists, he was never a revolutionary or a dictator. Most communists have tried to follow his doctrine, but it has been distorted. When we argue about who was the most pure Marxist, we are arguing about who got corrupted by power the least.

[peaccenicked]

Marx said'if there is one thing I know, it is I am not a Marxist.'
I am no puritan, I actually look for mistakes in Marx, and
I think he had an overly dynamic view of the world.
He says in the manifesto ''all thats solid melts'', I am not
so sure, the kowledge and skills we gain from the past,
I think develop, and I don't think the themes of literature melt, love and death etc
However there is a dynamic within all development,
that a moment of development 'melts' into another,
but I dont think marx meant that. He means that all the old relations of society are torn asunder. I am not quite so all embracing.
The point is everything is up for grabs, nothing is immune to criticism or development, nothing is truly
set in gold though I have not read anything anywhere that casts any real doubt on Marx's theory of Surplus value. This does not mean someone in the future will not refine his thoughts. I know I cant do any better.
Corruption usely only comes when someone distorts Marx for ulterior motives. Dictators give lip service to Marx, Bourge academics try to tame him, these are corruptions, but ultimately the truth itself, is incorruptible, a falsehood cannot last forever, it will be exposed and cast aside or any truth it does contain will be taken into a truer theory.

[Kez]

Dogma is funny.
But distorts the whole image

im often full of dogmatic babble, but its often the only way of expressing wones self, when u are incapable of doing so by ur self, which i see is a weakness, which is inherent in myself too

comrade kamo