Revolution

[abbielives!]

is it possible in the US at this time?
given the 60's experiance and the big middle class i mean.
not really feeling that it is right now.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

Not in my eyes. If there was one right now it would be a "libertarian" capitalist revolution wherin the middle class, promising freedom, establish even more pervasive capitalist policies. It would be more detrimental to the people in the long run, as they would try to cement their power with a return to the big, powerful state they claimed to despise.

[CrimsonTide]

Anything is possible as long as the conditions allow for it.

For example, due to a series of unwinnable wars, followed by a disastrous, large, unwinnable war fought with drafted troops. Like if Russia & Friends decide to burn the Paper Tiger and invade the middle-east in response to an attack on Iran. It does'nt even take boots on the ground, just a bombardment of Nuclear R&D Facilities to trigger it.

Just because the Bourgeois all have the same interests does'nt necessarily mean they all work together all the time. ;)

[BobKKKindle$]

The cultural hegemony of the Capitalist-owned means of communication is almost absolute in Amerika - a small number of media conglomerates are able to dictate the set of ideas and concepts that determine the way people view the world around them - Ideology. This represents the biggest impediment to the development of class consciousness for the simple reason that the working class fully accepts the worldview - one in which only one form of economic organisation can exist - put forward by the Capitalist class. However, independent media outlets through the internet are increasingly gaining greater penetration across society and one hopes that this will enhance class consciousness.

The pronounced importance of international class struggle and exploitation through the export of capital by the imperialist countries means that the material conditions also do not exist for a proletarian revolution to occur. If conflict were to occur between imperialist countries or if Capitlaism goes into global crisis, it is possible these conditions could be created.

[abbielives!]

thats kind of depressing, i was hoping someone would tell me how wrong i was.

oh, well

long live the (social) revolution!

[lithium]

ok dodgy net connection... please see following reply :)

[lithium]

The US is a tricky situation. You've got a lot of cappies who are willing to do whatever they want regardless of what other people think or feel. Yet at the same time there are a lot of people who believe in left-wing theory and maybe a (workers') Revolution. However, will this revolution be anarcho-capitalist or anarcho-"leftist"?

From what I see of the US, there are a lot of people on the right wing side... Yet, there are so many people on the left wing side of things. They realise that USA isn't the only country in the world that must benefit etc (viz-a-viz oil etc...) They feel that with enough people they can change the country. Heck, they've already got enough people to change the country. But when will this change come about? It will come about when you make them think for themselves, see with their own eyes, think with their own minds.

That is your challenge. You can do it now. It has been done in the past and you can do it too.

Remember Guevara's writings - (to paraphrase) "it only takes a few people [3 to 5] to start a Revolution". These people can create the conditions (however long it takes) to start the Rising.

You, my Comrade; all you need is a good heart and some people who follow the ideology you follow, and you will have a revolution.

Whether it be in your entire nation, your local community, or your workplace, the Revolution is yours.

Make of it what you will. But please, let it be a Revolution that benefits all, rather than one that gives more power to those who already have control over world economics.

[dannthraxxx]

I agree with Lithium.


However, the -antics- it would take to start a revolution in America, could possibly be suicidal. If yourself and others in a small group start doing reactionary things, the government will without a doubt mow you over and cover it up in the media as if you guys were "terrorists," thus covering up any good you may have succeeded in doing.

[Joby]

Originally posted by abbielives!@February 02, 2007 04:45 am
is it possible in the US at this time?
given the 60's experiance and the big middle class i mean.
not really feeling that it is right now.
What big middle class? How come I can't seem to find it?

The numbers just don't seem to hint of a 'big middle class,' though i agree the illusion is there.


The cultural hegemony of the Capitalist-owned means of communication is almost absolute in Amerika - a small number of media conglomerates are able to dictate the set of ideas and concepts that determine the way people view the world around them - Ideology

That's probably the biggest hurdle. Information could be your best weapon, and, with the internet it's undeniably harder to stop the flow of truth.

[Joby]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 06:51 am
However, the -antics- it would take to start a revolution in America, could possibly be suicidal. If yourself and others in a small group start doing reactionary things, the government will without a doubt mow you over and cover it up in the media as if you guys were "terrorists," thus covering up any good you may have succeeded in doing.
Exactly. Wgish is why a priority would be to cut the cord from the govt to the people.

and i'll leave it that vague cause i DO NOT ENDORSE TERRORIST ACTIVITIES....




...sorry for the paranoia

[abbielives!]

as to the middle class it has been my impression that the middle is the largest of the 3 classes, although i cant recall any statistics to back that up.

guevera also said that it is not possible to have a revolution(sp?) in a country that belives that it functions democraticly.
i dont think that the "anarcho"-capitalist" people will go any where it is well understood among the elite that the state is nessisary for the defence of private property. a coup could be attempted , perhaps sucsessfuly, by a section of the elite , the military, the church, etc... and this would likely result in a fascistic theocracy :angry: . just some thoughts...

[RGacky3]

People use middle class as a buzzword, theres no such thing really, everyone thinks their middle class.

I don't think debating if its time for a revolution is helpful, like Che said (not his exact words), you can't wait for a revolution to be ready, you have to make it ready. If you continue pushing and fighting and organizing and agitating, things will change, maybe over a long period of time, but its still revolutionary.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by abbielives!@February 04, 2007 03:30 am
as to the middle class it has been my impression that the middle is the largest of the 3 classes, although i cant recall any statistics to back that up.

In the Daily Mail (A very right-wing paper here in the UK) they had a section titled "We're all middle class now" after the Thatcher quote. Basically it was explaining how since in the 1980s the working class has shrunk so much it basically doesn't exist anymore. All of us are rich, well off, wine drinking yuppies.

:lol:

Anyway It had a pie chart, showing job percentages. They had listed, Train driving, Lorry driving and best of all, construction work, all as middle class jobs.

So when most people say they're 'middle class', they mean, 'working class'. Because to most people, working class means working in a steel mill in the 1900s. Making working people think they're middle class, or that class doesn't exist, is probably one of the biggest reasons class-struggle organisations are so small in the states.

[abbielives!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 04:09 am


I don't think debating if its time for a revolution is helpful,


I think that it is useful because it determines what kind of tactic you will use.

[Enragé]

Ofcourse there can be a revolution in the US, the american proletariate is amongst the most exploited of the developed western world (just compare the gap between rich and poor in the US with the gap in the netherlands for instance, and even there a revolution is possible).

As said earlier however, public debate is so extremely narrowed due to the stranglehold big business has on it, and public debate is alot more overtly capitalist (whereas in europe it isnt...yet).

The way forward (not just in the US but basicly everywhere), in my opinion, is to start an alternative media and give it more of a basis in actual reality (instead of just on the web), as well as grassroots, local organisation, in workplaces.
Step one is gathering a small group of people with a clear theoretical base around you (like 5-20). Then the rest can follow, you can start leafleting when some company is going to sack people right outside the doors of that company, you can sell newspapers perhaps (though i have somewhat an aversion to that...too many newspapers like that already), you can try to distribute leftist books, start debates, protesting, incite strikes, perhaps even organise 'em if you're big enough.

[Janus]

Someone made a thread about this not too long ago and the common consensus was that it's not likely now nor in the foreseeable future.

http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=41263