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peaccenicked
27th February 2002, 22:51
For Marx, every state was by definition a dictatorship. But Marx argued strongly for a democratic republic and preservation of the institution of the existing representative democracy under capitalism.[9] Marx considered the Paris Commune a working class dictatorship because the property form of the society was organized in favor of the working class.[10] He also linked the democratic nature of the proletarian rule with the Paris Commune since it provided democratic components such as self-government and immediate recall of all elected officials. Engels even made clear that the democratic republic then existed in the United States, was "the specific form of the dictatorship of the proletariat."[11] Neither Marx nor Engels endorsed the one-party rule, and that was primarily Lenin's invention.

Lenin as a theorist and a practitioner of Marxism further developed the instrumental approach towards the state. A socialist state, as defined by Lenin, is an instrument for the repression of the proletarian social class. Lenin's interpretation of the dictatorship of the proletariat includes: (1) the dictatorship of the proletariat can not be exercised through a mass party which embraces the entire working class; instead, it can only be exercised by "a vanguard [party] that has absorbed the revolutionary energy of that class;" and (2) the dictatorship of the proletariat means the rule of the proletariat "unrestricted by any law." [12] This, unquestionably, laid the foundation of the one-party rule and the party-state that existed in all socialist counties in the 20th century.[13]

With regard to the issue of socialization, Lenin was rather realistic. He pointed out that the seizure of private property and state ownership in itself was not enough to build a socialism society. Nationalization without real control by workers, according to Lenin, was simply not enough.[14] Indeed, Lenin was the first Marxist leader who realized that a transitional period between a capitalist society and a socialist one was needed. In an economically backward country like Russia, Lenin asserted, the proletarian state must follow the "change of historical order" and establish first of all an "industrial and commercial civilization".[15] The New Economic Policy initiated by Lenin was his answer to materialize such a transition. However, the early death of Lenin and the transfer of power to Stalin altered the course of the Soviet Union's development.

Firstly, Lenin did not invent one party rule nowhere does he theorise it as an ideal. He sees at an expediency during the civil war. Secondly, Lenin was not the first to realise that a transistion period was needed. The lower phase and higher phase are already in 'the critique of the gotha
programme.
Thirdly,"A socialist state, as defined by Lenin, is an instrument for the repression of the proletarian social class. " nowhere in Lenin is this written and the State and Revolution, or any other of his writings. This is is simply a lie.
The dictatorship of the proletariat has nothing to do with one party rule, one party rule is an aberration which Lenin understood.
The dictatorship of the majority
is the essence of democracy.
Lenin envisaged a day when the State would disappear
meaning that Humanity would outgrow pettiness and work together, as Marx says'the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all''


(Edited by peaccenicked at 12:56 am on Feb. 28, 2002)

Nateddi
27th February 2002, 23:51
I know what Dict of Prol means, however most don't. Lenin is one of my favourite communist thinkers, and State & Revolution is my favourite work of his. I admire Lenin for everything he did in explaining, theorizing, and organizing toward a workers revolution.

The Iron Heel
28th February 2002, 02:55
Che was a Marxist-Leninist, a fact that seems to escape a lot of those who profess to promote his ideals.

Michael De Panama
28th February 2002, 03:28
The revolution is the USSR was a silly concept to begin with. I mean, Russia didn't even have an established proletariat! They were just getting out of their days of Fuedalism and at almost the begining of Capitalism. There was nothing to rebel against! Lenin's campaign was doomed at the start.

peaccenicked
28th February 2002, 03:49
http://www.marx2mao.org/Lenin/DCR99tc.html
Lenin and the bolsheviks were internationalist, they saw Russia as the weakest link in the imperialist chain.
They were aware that if the revolution did not become international as history showed, they were doomed.
They unfortunately underestimated the forces of reaction. It is easier now with hindsight.
The fate of the German Revolution was not sealed.
"The German Revolution began on 29th October 1918, when sailors at Kiel refused to obey orders and engage in battle with the British Navy. The sailors in the German Navy mutinied and set up councils based on the soviets in Russia. By 6th November the revolution had spread to the Western Front and all major cities and ports in Germany.

On 7th November, 1918, Kurt Eisner, leader of the Independent Socialist Party, declared Bavaria a Socialist Republic. Eisner made it clear that this revolution was different from the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia and announced that all private property would be protected by the new government.

On 9th November, 1918, Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated and the Chancellor, Max von Baden, handed power over to Friedrich Ebert, the leader of the German Social Democrat Party.

In Bavaia Kurt Eisner formed a coalition with the German Social Democrat Party in the National Assembly. Eisner's rule was short-lived as he was assassinated by Anton Graf Arco, a fanatical nationalist, on 21st February, 1919.

Fearing a counter-revolution, supporters of Eisner established Soldiers' and Workers' Councils and took over the government from the National Assembly. Eugen Levine, a member of the German Communist Party (KPD), became the new leader of the Bavarian Republic.

Inspired by the events of the October Revolution, Levine ordered the expropriated of luxury flats and gave them to the homeless. Factories were to be run by joint councils of workers and owners and workers' control of industry and plans were made to abolish paper money. Levine, like the Bolsheviks had done in Russia, established Red Guard units to defend the revolution.

In January, 1919, the Spartakist Rising, led by Rosa Luxemburg, Leo Jogiches, Clara Zetkin and Karl Liebknecht took place in Berlin.

Friedrich Ebert now saw his own power under threat and called in the German Army and the Freikorps to bring an end to the rebellion. By 13th January the rebellion had been crushed and its leaders, including Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht and Leo Jogiches had been captured and executed.

With Freikorps units massing on Bavaria's northern borders, the Red Guards began arresting people they considered to be hostile to the new regime. On 29th April, 1919, eight men were executed after being found guilty of being right-wing spies.

Friedrich Ebert, the Chancellor of Germany, now ordered the German Army and the Freikorps into Bavaria. They quickly gained control and over the next few weeks an estimate 700 men and women were captured and executed. Eugen Levine was arrested and after being found guilty of being involved in the execution of the eight spies, was shot by a firing squad."

The Iron Heel
28th February 2002, 07:09
Lenin and the bolsheviks were internationalist, they saw Russia as the weakest link in the imperialist chain. They were aware that if the revolution did not become international as history showed, they were doomed. They unfortunately underestimated the forces of reaction. It is easier now with hindsight

A textbook answer. Great post, peaccenicked.

sypher
29th July 2002, 20:48
I for one didn't know that che was a marxist. I thought he was a maoist (due to him siding with china) thanks for the correction :)

ComradeJunichi
29th July 2002, 21:37
So from what I've read...dictator of the proletariat...one party, and they can do whatever they want?

Nateddi
29th July 2002, 22:37
re-read Junichi

one, its not a dictator in one party that can do what they want. its almost completely opposite. the dictatorship of the proletariat has no dictator.

(Edited by Nateddi at 10:42 pm on July 29, 2002)

James
30th July 2002, 17:26
Nateddi Posted on 11:51 pm on Feb. 27, 2002
I know what Dict of Prol means, however most don't. Lenin is one of my favourite communist thinkers, and State & Revolution is my favourite work of his. I admire Lenin for everything he did in explaining, theorizing, and organizing toward a workers revolution.


I don't understand Nateddi. Could you please explain? This has always got me; the dictatorship of the prol :(

Nateddi
30th July 2002, 19:46
http://marxists.org/glossary/terms/d/i.htm...hip-proletariat (http://marxists.org/glossary/terms/d/i.htm#dictatorship-proletariat)

http://marxists.org/glossary/terms/p/r.htm...arian-democracy (http://marxists.org/glossary/terms/p/r.htm#proletarian-democracy)

(Edited by Nateddi at 7:47 pm on July 30, 2002)

James
30th July 2002, 20:50
Ahh, thanks Nateddi. Now i understand!!! muh ha ha ha