Satanism

[Pirate Utopian]

is Satanism a real religion or just something to piss off christians with?
i went here: http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html and it seems more to be something opposite to christianity and often it made sense.

example: Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all

yes we can all see the dogmatism but somewhere you can take the methaphors away and see another meaning.

do you all see satanism as a religion, a cult or just something to piss of christians with?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think satanism is not a religion neither a cult.

i think it's just a group of morrons that adore satan too much...LOL adore satan...ridicilous :lol: and in the end, oftenly this kind of group end up by mass suicide.

[Quills]

They don't believe in Satan, it's just a type of paganism, but without all the happy love the world fluffyness. And just as ridiculous. Only difference is a few more rules, and a membership fee.

[MrDoom]

All religions are cults.

[Comrade J]

It's a very selfish doctrine and more of a philosophy than a 'religion' as such.

It is totally incompatible with Marxism, it says you should always put yourself before others and exploit the weaknesses of other people to your own advantage.

[Question everything]

I think it is just an excuse to get away with what ever the Hell you want, either way the only people who join things like that are ussually cinically insane...

[wtfm8lol]

they don't actually believe satan exists. they just believe in indulging in life's pleasures and putting yourself first. it's largely based on individualism, and is therefore, as has been previously said, incompatible with communism.

but also, satanists probably are mostly just annoying rebellious teenagers who think they're funny and are looking for some group to identify with that will make their parents angry. reminds me of most communists, actually.

[Janus]

Satanism is actually a broad "religious" movement that vary between literally worshipping an actual Satanic being and the interpretation of Satan as a metaphor. However, the movement is grounded in materialism and the focus on the self and "self-advancement". But due to the huge variety of beliefs within Satanism, there are many misconceptions and slander used against Satanists which are usually based on the actions of a few disturbed individuals.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 01:30 am
reminds me of most communists, actually.
hahaha...d&#39;you really thinks that way? well,you are totally fucking wrong <_<

[Jazzratt]

What knight of cydonia said, except I think it applies to just about everything that twatbadger has ever said.

Satanism is pretty much capitalism with theological pretentions.

[MrDoom]

Satanism is pretty much capitalism with theological pretentions.

And heiling.

[Fawkes]

It is a religion, just an atheist one.

[Janus]

just an atheist one.
Depends on the form. Some Satanists worship Satan as an actual deity.

[Fawkes]

I was referring to the official Church of Satan, which, as far as I know, does not worhsip any deity.

[Publius]

It&#39;s basically just Objectivism.

Almost exactly.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Satanists strike me as being a cross between emos and laissez-faire capitalists, with a touch of sociopathy and a pinch of Nazism to top it all off.

It also helps to never, ever get laid, like, ever.

[Cyanide Suicide]

Yeah, I was watching the History channel a while back...I forget the actual program, maybe The Antichrist or Hell: The Devil&#39;s Domain...but anyway, they were showing some of these satanists&#39; rituals and whatnot. What struck me as cool though was this house the dude had in San Fran, it was just this house in between two other ones, but it&#39;s painted completely black.

But yeah, in the video showed them repeating "heil satan" over and over again, and basically described them as Comrade J and wtfm8lol and Janus said.

According to wiki entry on Anton LaVey: "..founder of Satanism, a synthesized system of his understanding of human nature and the insights of philosophers who advocated materialism and individualism, for which he claimed no "supernatural inspiration”. LaVey viewed "Satan" not as a literal deity or entity, but as a historic and literary figure symbolic of Earthly values."

[Cryotank Screams]

The vast majority if not every single person that has posted about Satanism thus far, is more or less completely ignorant of what Satanism actuall is and this surprises me actually, at how many of you just go along with the bullshit society says about it, without actually reading about the philosophy in full, and getting past the enema image.


Depends on the form. Some Satanists worship Satan as an actual deity.

No, there is but one Satanism, which is founded by LaVey which is purely atheistic and materialist, and Satan is just a symbol that embodies the philosophy, and another word that can describe Satanism is Epicurean Atheism.

Bakunin had a Satanic view of Satan, and illustrates how Satanism views Satan;

"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge."-Mikhail Bakunin.

All other are just devil worshipers, and are not Satanists, nor have any affiliation with Satanism.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 04:52 pm
Satanism is pretty much capitalism with theological pretentions.
No, it&#39;s not Satanism, isn&#39;t this misanthropic bullshit, that teens and other fools try to make it about to be, they are the exact same people who don&#39;t understand Satanism, and probably never will, Satanism is not capitalist, nor is it theological pretentions, it&#39;s imagery, it&#39;s rituals, it&#39;s symbolism, and the the "hail Satan," thing mean hailing yourself, and taking the Satan-devil archetype as a repersentation of yourself, and is the rejection of gods and spirituality, in place of you symbolically being your own god, and embracing carnality, and materialism.

[Cryotank Screams]

they don&#39;t actually believe satan exists. they just believe in indulging in life&#39;s pleasures and putting yourself first. it&#39;s largely based on individualism, and is therefore, as has been previously said, incompatible with communism.

Wrong, Satanism is about self-advancement, and self empowerment yes, however this is meant to be in sharp contrast to previously religions, which made you do the exact opposite, and is based on individualism, in more or less, a religious, and philosophical context, not a social context, and Satanism, is not tied to any political affiliation, as stated in the Church of Satan website, and is compatible with Communism, and Leftism, and infact there is a Communist Satanic group.


but also, satanists probably are mostly just annoying rebellious teenagers who think they&#39;re funny and are looking for some group to identify with that will make their parents angry. reminds me of most communists, actually.

No, those are just teens looking for something alternative, Satanists are born, not made, you either agree with the philosophy or you don&#39;t, pure and simple, and it isn&#39;t about rebellion, or any other bullshit stereotypes your trying to place it in, and stating this only proves, you have read bare minimum about it.

[Cryotank Screams]

It is totally incompatible with Marxism, it says you should always put yourself before others and exploit the weaknesses of other people to your own advantage.

No, it talks about getting what you want in a emotional, religious, and personal context yes, and tells you how to make life more the way you want it to go yes, however it never talks about the expolitation of others, or of weaker individuals, or any such non-sense, and the only people who state this, are people who don&#39;t really know what it&#39;s about, or have no affiliation with Satanism at all.

Satanists can very well do charitable things, and often times do, and when LaVey talked about individualism, he talked about individualism it wasn&#39;t full extreme individualism in a social context, but an emotional, psychological, and religious context, which doesn&#39;t conflict with a Communalist viewpoint, nor Marxist and Leftist theory, considering Satanism holds no political ties, and allows the Satanist to choose for him or herself what political ideology the believe in, as again stated in the Church of Satan website.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 03:52 am
What knight of cydonia said, except I think it applies to just about everything that twatbadger has ever said.


yes it is, and you know who&#39;s that twatbadger is :rolleyes:
just read his post, the last sentences...with those words i assume he&#39;s underestimating communist, he&#39;s underestimating me,he&#39;s underestimating us.
he think that most communists are actually just a rebellion teenagers who&#39;s looking for some group to identify and with that will make their parents angry.wtf?&#33; <_<

[dannie]

No, there is but one Satanism, which is founded by LaVey which is purely atheistic and materialist, and Satan is just a symbol that embodies the philosophy, and another word that can describe Satanism is Epicurean Atheism.


Saying there is only one form of Satanism is like saying there is but one form of Christianity. You know it&#39;s bullshit, and i know it is.

What is being referred to in this thread is Modern or Laveyan Satanism. There are several other currents within Satanism each following it&#39;s own teaching, and even within Modern Satanism there is sectarianism and dissent. The split between the COS and the FCOS with Lord Egan in the early 90&#39;s pops to mind. There are several organisations and school&#39;s of thought that are build on f.e. on Aleister Crowley&#39;s believes. We know of gnostic Satanism, where Satan is seen as deity and not a metaphor. And of course the standard devil worshipping.
I&#39;ll be referring to Laveyan Satanism in the rest of this reply.

I do believe Satanism is based, at least for a big part, on survival of the fittest, as the second sentence of the satanic bible reads:


To the North and to the South I show
a sign proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong&#33;

There are several more lines implicating the selfish character in the book of satan (The satanic bible is divided into 4 books, the book of satan, belial, lucifer and leviathan).

For exaple 1,8 reads
I break away from all conventions that
do not lead to my earthly success and happiness.



...and infact there is a Communist Satanic group.

The satanic Reds right? They are at most a marginal group within the broad movement Satanism, having completely nothing to do with Lavey or the COS.

From their website.

5.5) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?

==================================================

No, absolutely none, though LaVey did hand out two high titles to two of the founders of Satanic Reds, but these people never used these titles on anything they ever wrote or sold.

On the question of them being communist.

6) Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?

==================================================

We are sort of both. Dirigist capitalism is a form of Socialism&#33; We speak of the Bill of Rights and the New Deal. Forces of reaction have made absurd slanders against programs that benefited all hard-working people. They have many times called President F.D. Roosevelt a RED&#33; Well, if F. D. Roosevelt is a Red, then so are we&#33;

The point is this: any kind of social planning necessary to have in a whole nation, especially a modern one, that serves to benefit the hard-working people, present workers or retired workers, gets labeled Red. Even liberals are called Red&#33; Anyone who is TOLERANT is labeled a Red&#33; Anyone who is in favor of women&#39;s rights, feminism, gay rights, and against racism is called a Red&#33; In fact, anyone in favor of tolerance toward alternative religions is called a Red or a "pinko commie." This is not new&#33; And so, we call ourselves REDS&#33;

They do not believe in classless and stateless society, I would describe them as socialist at most&#33;

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Cryotank Screams+January 30, 2007 05:13 am--> (Cryotank Screams @ January 30, 2007 05:13 am)
[email protected] 29, 2007 04:52 pm
Satanism is pretty much capitalism with theological pretentions.
No, it&#39;s not Satanism, isn&#39;t this misanthropic bullshit, that teens and other fools try to make it about to be, [/b]
It is if you read the Satanic Bible.


they are the exact same people who don&#39;t understand Satanism, and probably never will, Satanism is not capitalist, nor is it theological pretentions, it&#39;s imagery, it&#39;s rituals, it&#39;s symbolism, and the the "hail Satan," thing mean hailing yourself, and taking the Satan-devil archetype as a repersentation of yourself, and is the rejection of gods and spirituality, in place of you symbolically being your own god, and embracing carnality, and materialism. Yourself, not your class or your fellows not even your fucking species. The closest it could come to communism would be some kind of individual anarchist shit - it is much more congrous with capitalism.

[lithium]

Is Satanism not a Christian religion? I.e. to believe in an anti-Christ you must believe in a Christ first of all?

[dannie]

Laveyan Satanism uses Satan as a metaphor for the deadly sins in christianity. They see them as useful and good, and believe you should live by those. A life driven by animal like impulses if you will.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 08:41 am
Is Satanism not a Christian religion? I.e. to believe in an anti-Christ you must believe in a Christ first of all?
It&#39;s an atheistic religion, they don&#39;t even believe Satan exists, they just use him as a representation of their materialist and individualist values.

[Cryotank Screams]

Saying there is only one form of Satanism is like saying there is but one form of Christianity.

No, the christian sects all follow the basic paradigm, and differ on more of structural basis, and minor theological and spiritual concepts, what your talking about is trying to combine to completely opposites into one camp.

LaVey founded Satanism, he laid out the philosophy, it started with him and the magic circle in San Francisco, and from then on out we have Satanism, there was absolutely no one before him, just a bunch of crazy devil worshipers here and there, he was the one, who sat down, and wrote and crafted a philosophy, in a semi-religious context, which was really done in a iconoclast, and very flamboyant manner, which destroyed all the myths of old, it talked about women being equal to men, and being in control of their own body, it talked about homosexuals being equal to heterosexuals, and completely normal, it talked about sex being a natural desire, he laid this out in the Satanic Bible, Satanism starting place lies with him, and his ideas stretch into every section of what is known as Satanism today.

So again, there is no Satanism other than "LaVeyian," Satanism.


You know it&#39;s bullshit, and i know it is.

No, you just had read a couple stuff, and haven&#39;t actually studied it, and you think you actually have a firm grasp upon it.


What is being referred to in this thread is Modern or Laveyan Satanism. There are several other currents within Satanism each following it&#39;s own teaching, and even within Modern Satanism there is sectarianism and dissent. The split between the COS and the FCOS with Lord Egan in the early 90&#39;s pops to mind. There are several organisations and school&#39;s of thought that are build on f.e. on Aleister Crowley&#39;s believes. We know of gnostic Satanism, where Satan is seen as deity and not a metaphor. And of course the standard devil worshipping.
I&#39;ll be referring to Laveyan Satanism in the rest of this reply

I have studied and read ALL the works LaVey, I know all about the little House Masochists, that try to ride the coat tails of LaVey, and try to claim and reform, twist, and degrade the philosophy of LaVey into something that it isn&#39;t, hence you got your First Church of Satan, and your Temple of Set, and other such bullshitry, however I direct you to the essay below, written by Gilmore.

Rebels Without a Cause by Peter Gilmore.

"Some newcomers to our philosophy do not grasp its axioms and tear at Satanism as if it were some kind of straightjacket. Others hope to wield it as an “anything goes” card rather than the key to accountable liberty that it is. They observe our list of “sins” and “rules” and don’t grasp that such terms are used with tongue firmly planted in cheek, while simultaneously missing the point that there is an ethical structure to our philosophy—our “third side” which is so elusive to those limited to dualist thinking. These lists are guidelines and tools based on keen observation of human social behavior, not arbitrary regulations or “shalt nots” handed down from “on high” or belched forth from “down below.” Each Satanist is welcome to take ‘em out for a test drive and see how they work. Most of us find them to be both accurate and useful. That’s why we adopt “Satanist” as a proper label for ourselves—Anton LaVey’s philosophy is completely coincident with our personal approach to living.

What self-styled “Satanists” fail to realize when they find themselves disagreeing with the principles established in the literature of the Church of Satan is that it isn’t Satanism that must change to accommodate their disagreement. They themselves must abandon their improper self-definition. Satanism is codified—a rational and coherent construct. It is not an amorphous ragbag of loose concepts up for grabs to anyone who wants to call himself a Satanist. Yet some wish it were so, and invoke the word “freedom” as an escape clause from culpability. Anton LaVey’s entire purpose for founding the Church of Satan was to create a rational philosophy defining Satanism for the very first time in Western history as an above ground, coherent movement.

He succeeded in his efforts to do so, demonstrated by the health of his Church and the expanding presence of his writings 40 years later. And we who worked at his side intend to preserve and build upon his legacy, which we see as a durable foundation in no need of amendment. If we found it otherwise, we would not be Satanists, and would have sought other labels and thought structures to define ourselves. We invite wannabe external reformers to just keep on moving. We aren’t going to change to suit your particular wishes. Find some fellow daffy devil-worshippers and make your own party.

Anton LaVey directly addressed the issue of those rare Church of Satan members who reach a point where feel they must try to appoint themselves as the “saviors of Satanism.” To most Satanists, these sowers of discord appear ignorant since one of our fundamental principles is that we are each our OWN saviors. We have never welcomed people who suffer from a messianic martyrdom complex, and members of the Church of Satan are expected to know this.

From his essay, “The World’s Most Powerful Religion”: “Satanism is the only religion which serves to encourage and enhance one’s individual preferences, so long as there is admission of those needs. Thus, one’s personal and indelible religion (the picture) is integrated into a perfect frame. It’s a celebration of individuality without hypocrisy, of solidarity without mindlessness, of objective subjectivity. There need be no deviation from these principles. They should summarily negate internecine strife and bickering. Any attempts at Satanic ‘reformation’ should be seen for what they are: creating problems where none exist. There should be no place in any religion for reformers whose very religion is the fetish of reformation. There is even a place and title for compulsive dissidents, and if they can wear the mantle, they are welcome. They would delude themselves to be revolutionaries. In our camp, they are called “House Masochists.”

LaVey vividly described the antics of these types as “shitting on the carpet and throwing themselves out the window.” That sort of “performance” leaves the reluctant audience to clean up the excreta and puts the perpetrator outside the cabal he had formerly treated with respect. The good Doktor said that he was not inclined to “open the door,” allowing such desperate “emancipators” back inside when they can’t be trusted to refrain from an encore. He saw this happen again and again, and would shake his head at such infantile conduct. Inevitably, we’ve been witness to a number of shows by newer additions to “The House Masochist Players” since our founder’s demise. "-Peter Gilmore.


I do believe Satanism is based, at least for a big part, on survival of the fittest, as the second sentence of the satanic bible reads:

The second sentence or basically the entire book of Satan, was not written by LaVey, but actually written by Ragnar Redbeard in Might is Right, and you will probably try to assert, doesn&#39;t this show clear signs of social darwinism? Shortly no, the main and specific point of the inclusion of the book of Satan into the Satanic Bible, was to show a clear cut division, between Satanism, and every other religious movement that has come before it, where religions of old said, humble yourself, and tried to degrade man and such, here LaVey is trying to say, no more, and that you can strengthen yourself, and empower yourself, however, it must be pointed out again, he isn&#39;t talking about politico-social concepts, but rather, strictly concepts on a personal, emotional, and psychological level, and is delivering it, in a poetic, inflammatory, and dramatic fashion, not a literal fashion, and is meant to shock and arose the would be Satanist, and introduce new ideas and concepts, while destroying past delusions, via again, a ruffling of feathers manner.

The main and fundamental point of Satanism, is to celebrate and exalt life, and the pleasures it brings, and instead of promising people, spiritual pipe-dreams, and happiness in the hereafter, it&#39;s about giving people tools, to make them more happy in life, and give them more freedom in life, and to liberate man, and reject all spiritual concepts and morality, and put into question all excepted social morals, and concepts, and basically saying, "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die&#33;"

You can&#39;t take anything, like the verses one bellow, as a literal representation of Satanism, it&#39;s symbolic, as most of the concepts discussed in the Satanic Bible are.


There are several more lines implicating the selfish character in the book of satan (The satanic bible is divided into 4 books, the book of satan, belial, lucifer and leviathan).

I know, as stated above, I am well versed in Satanic thought, and again, the book of Satan is more or less satire, and poetry, not literal representations of the philosophy, and infact a lot if not most of the Satanic Bible is symbolism, case in point, psychic vampires, and rituals.


The satanic Reds right? They are at most a marginal group within the broad movement Satanism, having completely nothing to do with Lavey or the COS.

I know, they were just the first visible group that comes to mind, and as seen below, are not truly Socialist, however this doesn&#39;t mean that Satanists can&#39;t be Socialists, Satanists can and often time are concerned with other people, and can have a communalist view point, and fight for equality on every level, as stated above the selfishness, and individualism, is talking about in a religious, personal, emotional, context, not to be extended into one’s social and political area.


It is if you read the Satanic Bible.

As stated above I have read and studied all the works of LaVey, and other associated Satanists, and it shows no signs of misanthropy, and other such bullshit, and really the people, that try to turn it into that, are people, who don&#39;t understand what is being said, and misinterpret LaVey&#39;s writings, it&#39;s no different from idiots who degrade, and misinterpret the works of Nietzche.


Yourself, not your class or your fellows not even your fucking species. The closest it could come to communism would be some kind of individual anarchist shit - it is much more congrous with capitalism.[/b]

No, as stated previously, LaVey wasn&#39;t talking about some extreme form of individualism, and the individualism he was taking about was on a personal, semi-religious, and emotional level, not a socio-political level, which means Satanists can and often do care deeply, about other besides themselves, and humanity, and their class, and is perfectly compatible with any Leftist sect.

This sounds like an oversimplification, and misinterpretation.


Is Satanism not a Christian religion? I.e. to believe in an anti-Christ you must believe in a Christ first of all?

No, Satanism is completely different in everyway from christianity.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

I read the satanic bible. It kind of made sense until it got to part two. Than it started talking about performing rituals and all this wierd shit. Like to perform the ritual you have to face east and all this other bullshit. I threw it in the garbage after that.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by Pow R. Toc [email protected] 30, 2007 10:01 pm
I read the satanic bible. It kind of made sense until it got to part two. Than it started talking about performing rituals and all this wierd shit. Like to perform the ritual you have to face east and all this other bullshit. I threw it in the garbage after that.
You mean parts three and four (book of belial and leviathan), correct? The rituals do have some of the same characteristics as that of old occult books, however there is an extreme difference between the two, in that Satanic rituals are more of self-therapy which is summed up into three main categories, and celebration, and are not to be taken literally or anything.

You also don&#39;t have to do rituals to be a Satanist, they are there at your disposal.