Hamas/Fatah

[Lamanov]

It seems as if the violence will only spread. There are mainstream news about people protesting the conflict and calling for an end.

Are there any news on attempts by workers to bypass the two sides and stop the conflict, to grab the guns to secure themselves or anytthing like that?

[Brownfist]

From all the people that I know that have just been to Palestine, or are completely embedded in the Palestinian struggle, there does not seem to be any development of a "third way" on the part of the working class. I mean most people still are deeply invested in either of these two parties (more people in Hamas due to their social programming), but would like the conflict to end. The problem is that the communist parties are small and kind of inconsequential. The real left opposition that could have been provided (i.e the PFLP and DFLP) has been completely co-opted into the governing structures of the PLO, and are unable to see past the Oslo Accords.

[Janus]

Are there any news on attempts by workers to bypass the two sides and stop the conflict, to grab the guns to secure themselves or anytthing like that?
Doubtful not only in terms of the logistics problem behind that but also the political factor. We have yet to see a mass movement develop in Palestine with the necessary supplies and strength to challenge Hamas and Fatah. Most people due to clan politics and religion support one or the other.

[Mikhail Frunze]

Hamas is just a proxy of the Mossad whose aim is to fragment the Palestinian people in what is a manifestation of the divide and conquer tactic. But at the same time, the PLO became discredited with the treachorous Oslo deal. The Palestinian proletariat should settle for nothing less but the complete liberation of their land and the right for their people to return. However, the PFLP today has become largely irrelevant since the early 1990s. The Palestinian people lack a genuinely proletarian vanguard to guide them.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Mikhail [email protected] 29, 2007 07:39 am
Hamas is just a proxy of the Mossad whose aim is to fragment the Palestinian people in what is a manifestation of the divide and conquer tactic. But at the same time, the PLO became discredited with the treachorous Oslo deal. The Palestinian proletariat should settle for nothing less but the complete liberation of their land and the right for their people to return. However, the PFLP today has become largely irrelevant since the early 1990s. The Palestinian people lack a genuinely proletarian vanguard to guide them.


Firstly, "Mossad"'s aim is to entrench political turmoil in the OT, which is why they, and the Western imperialists, are now playing Fatah off against Hamas. The fact is that every group in Palestine has been in bed with Israel, or elements of the Israeli intelligence community, before.

Secondly, the way out of this for the Palestinians is a broad national liberation movement, reformed to include the Islamist liberation fronts - a new PLO. The old PLO has become a decadent bureaucracy.

And there's no such thing as the "Palestinian working class" - Palestine lives off foreign aid, it doesn't have a functioning economy, capitalist or otherwise.

[Janus]

And there's no such thing as the "Palestinian working class" - Palestine lives off foreign aid, it doesn't have a functioning economy, capitalist or otherwise.
Palestine may not have a significant urban proletariat but they do exist even with a 70+% unemployment rate. A simple Google search brought this up:
http://www.counterpunch.org/bergen0722.html

There are those who work in Israel though I suppose that's only a very small minority as Israel only issues a limited number of permits.

[The Grey Blur]

Secondly, the way out of this for the Palestinians is a broad national liberation movement, reformed to include the Islamist liberation fronts - a new PLO. The old PLO has become a decadent bureaucracy.
So basically you're saying the PLO are balls so...we need a new PLO?

:rolleyes:


And there's no such thing as the "Palestinian working class"
Don't be a tool of the bourgeoise. There is a clear and definable Palestinian working-class - just look at the numerous powerful general strikes (the most recent against your beloved Hamas), the support of PFLP in the 80s and the fact that a small elite of Palestinians are living extremely comfortably while the rest descend deeper into atrocious poverty.

There have been general strikes recently in Israel & Palestine! - The solution there is a working-class one!

[Lamanov]

Originally posted by YKTMX+--> (YKTMX)Secondly, the way out of this for the Palestinians is a broad national liberation movement, reformed to include the Islamist liberation fronts - a new PLO. The old PLO has become a decadent bureaucracy.[/b]

After 60 years of national liberation perspective you can only suggest that the way out is... national liberation?

So the "new" PLO would be... refreshed future decadent bureaucracy? Only now Islamist. Nice. :rolleyes:


YKTMX
And there's no such thing as the "Palestinian working class" - Palestine lives off foreign aid, it doesn't have a functioning economy, capitalist or otherwise.

:mellow:

I'm sorry, but 3,3 million people surely do not live "off foreign aid" just like that, and even if all of their material sources rest on that aid, its distribution, due to hierarchy of state organization and jobs, causes it to flow through labor exploitation. That exploitation - further on - ensures the existence of bureaucracy, private enterprize (whatever its size) and state appartus itslef.

[Guerrilla22]

Again, this is precisely what Israel wanted to happen.

[Brownfist]

There definitely is a Palestinian working class. These are the people that "fortunate" enough to have work visa's in Israel. There is also an economy within Palestine that is not completely independent of aid, is not completely dependent on aid, and has numerous people employed in it. Furthermore, just because an economy is funded by aid, and there is a high level of unemployment, does not mean that there is not a working class, rather, it speaks to the specific conditions in which the working class are required to exist. As someone has mentioned above, there are numerous unions and strikes that have occurred.

Unfortunately, there is no left alternative left in Palestine. The PFLP and DFLP have little popular support and are completely within the PLO structures. There are numerous smaller communist parties however, they are currently largely inconsequential. I mean this is due to the consistent attacks on them by the Israelis, and due to the limitations of being a party residing in Palestine. It is interesting to note that the PFLP was seen by the Israeli's as a real threat to their security and were thus targeted especially by the Israelis. At the same time Hamas was initially funded and allowed to expand by the Israeli's so that they could always legitimize an Israeli presence in the Gaza and West Bank (I support a one-state solution so I refuse to use the term occupied territories). However, like many beasts, it soon got out of the control of the Israeli's.