Nelson Mandela

[Rage Against Right]

I always knew abit about nelson madela and what he did for south africa but I've just started reading "in his own words" which a compilation of his speeches and writings etc.

This made me wonder what fellow comrades would think of this man, i for one put him high on my revoluntionary list for his elimination of white supremacy in south africa and his beliefs system. He is in favour of democracy but still mentions his socialistist view points and described his politcal belief system as mainly socialism with a touch of western and eastern politcs. He mentions his affinity with marxist classless society.

I think he is an incredible man with amazing forsight and inspirational ability, and though not declaring himself a communist i think he is a great leader of a system that my beliefs don't particularly lie in. His efforts to turn a nation around are phenominal and his words insprirational.

What are peoples opinions, ideas, or critisms of this man and his beliefs?

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

The guy is fearless, he made huge strides in what was once a post-colonial nightmare ruled by backwards whites.

[Brownfist]

Nelson Mandela is a very interesting character in-so-far that the common depiction of him is completely disconnected with his actual political activities. Thus, numerous people believe that he believed in non-violent struggle (like Gandi), and completely ignore the fact that he was the leader of the armed wing of the ANC called the "Spear of the Nation". I think that he like some in the ANC was definitely influenced by socialist views, however, spent very little putting them in action. I know people who actually personally know him, and feel that he was a great leader, but fear that history will judge him poorly because of his policies whilst in government.

It is important to note that under Mandela, South Africa saw the privitizing of housing, water and electricity, all things that were supposed to be available to all South Africans according to the Freedom Charter. This was a complete blow for the working class, especially blacks, of South Africa who had hoped that there would be some kind of equality post-apartheid. However, as most critical commentators have noted, political apartheid ended in 1991, but economic apartheid did not. Thus, we do not see any kind of real re-distribution of wealth under Mandela.

One cannot take away the fact that he fought courageously to end apartheid, and sacrificed much, but that could be said for numerous South Africans. The issue lies that at the end of apartheid, Mandela as the first president of post-apartheid South Africa dealt some serious blows to the working class and black communities of South Africa.

[Pirate Utopian]

even though he's not a communist, but a "half-marxist" as he says.
he is a important figure in the african struggle against colonialism and a socialist.
he deserves our respect

[Brownfist]

Big Manifesto,
I do not think that anyone would disagree with that sentiment. However, I think that we need to be more critical of him, especially in the context of the post-apartheid political strategies and policies that he implemented as president of that country. I think often, we are inclined not to critique inspirational characters like Mandela due to the importance of their work, and the real victories that they have won and that can be detrimental. Thus, what about the privitization of basic services, and the effects that has had on the black population that has been systematically oppressed economically and socially. However, having said that we should not fall into the polemics that some people on this board have adopted in which if someone has not followed the "perfect politics" they should be denounced and completely rejected (see for example the Gandhi thread for evidence of this).

[WUOrevolt]

He does deserve our respect for his part in the revoltuionary armed struggle to drive apartheid out of South Africa. And for that he has my respect. But, and i may be wrong, but i believe he has a neo-liberal economic policy.

[Guerrilla22]

He was an extremely brave individual, its too bad the ANC abandoned its marxist roots and adopted neo-liberalism once they came to power, even if their hand was forced by the old apartheid regime during negociations to end apartheid.

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh when Mandella was leader of the ANC he certianly talked the talk and was prepaired to struggle with arms and go to prison. However once released the ANC just implemented what the South African ruling class wanted, apartheid with a black face. Just because political control of south africa is rubber stamped with a black face doesn't mean that apartheid for all real economic and social purposes isnt in place.

[Brownfist]

As numerous anarchist and communist critics in South Africa have noted (and I am not thinking of the SACP in this instance) have noted that political apartheid had ended, but economic apartheid had not. This is due to the right opportunist tendencies within the SACP (which had turned revisionist much earlier) and the COSATU. However, in recent years numerous groups including the Anti-Privitization Forum (which includes the leftist elements of the SACP who left) have sprung up and have tried to develop and organize mass movements and organizations which attack neo-liberalization.

[Kia]

A friend (Markist) and I have a running joke: Mandela for 08!

Frankly as a political force and symbol in the world he is one of the most powerful out there. His work in ending political apartheid is impressive and deserves our respect.
Brownfist I'm interested to know if you have link to his policies related to privitization and such..I know very little about the subject and would greatly appreciate learning more. I find it interesting that he is critized for ignoring the AIDS epidemic in S. Africa but Im glad to find out that he agrees that he was wrong to not have paid more attention and now is an important figure in working towards fighting AIDS. Frankly I think he is intelligent enough to realize the mistakes he made and admits to them..something most politicians have tremendous problems doing.


I found this on wikipedia:
"As a member of the United States House of Representatives, Dick Cheney voted against a congressional resolution calling for Mandela's release from prison."
Wikipedia: Nelson Mandela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela#Political_activity)

SICK FUCK is all i can say about Cheney. May he die of ebola.

[Brownfist]

I do not have direct links to his policy documents. However, if you just google water privitization and South Africa you will find tons of material. Also, the American documentary, "The Fourth World War" by Big Noise Films has a good section about the APF and the anti-privitization movement in South Africa.

[Red October]

he's a very complicated figure, but hes certainly not the perfect person many portray him to be. many of his policies have major flaws, but i think he is deserving of our respect for his work in ending political apartheid, if not economic apartheid.

[Brownfist]

I agree, it is interesting that his relationship with the SACP has been generally downplayed by both Western media sources and the ANC itself. Indeed, several of the ANC leaders are ex-communists or are currently members of the SACP (the SACP operates as a faction within the ANC).