Chinese sailors’ discovery of the New World

[Pawn Power]

I was told, by a reliable source, that Chinese sailors "discovered" what is now California before 1492. Supposedly this information was mapped and eventually Columbus got his hands on it so he was not "sailing blind," so to speak, but new something was out there.

I was wondering if anyone had other information or sources pertaining to this.

[Demogorgon]

I don't know about this specifically, but don't forget the new world had been come upon before Columbus anyway by other Europeans. So it is likely that he would have known something at least was out there.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Columbus got his hands on it so he was not "sailing blind," so to speak, but new something was out there.

"It has also been claimed that Europeans believed the Earth was flat, and that Columbus proved them wrong. This myth can be traced back to Washington Irving's novel The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus (1828).

"The fact that the Earth is round was evident to most people of Columbus's time, especially other sailors and explorers (Eratosthenes (276-194 BC) had in fact accurately calculated the circumference of the Earth). The only thing in dispute was the distance to the Indies (where Columbus planned to sail).

"Most European sailors and navigators concluded that the Indies were too far away to make sailing to them worth considering. They were right and Columbus was wrong; had he not unexpectedly encountered a previously uncharted continent in mid-travel, he and his crew would have perished from lack of food and water." - Source (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?67)

[Pawn Power]

Well I really wasn't interested in info about the shape of the earth, that was known in the western world since the Greeks.

I was interested about info pertaining to Chinese navigation of the new world.

[Ian]

1492 is a looney book, says theres are dozens of Chinese shipwrecks in New Zealand and that the bogus Mahogany ship of Warnambool is chinese

[rouchambeau]

Damn, I had thought it was the Native Americans who "discovered" it.

[Comrade Castro]

Read the book &#39;1421&#39;. Its pretty new and very interesting. And yeah, the vikings found America around 1000 AD, the Irish may have sailed monks there around 500 AD, mummified caucasian, likely European, bodies have been found in the Amazon jungle dating between the 8th and 14th centuries, the Arabs got here from West Africa throughout the Middle Ages (Arabic artifacts in the Mojave desert, Arabic influence on several native languages, Columbus reporting a mosque on Cuba, and a treaty between Europeans and Cherokee, I think, from the 18th or 17th century, where one of the Cherokee chiefs is named Abdullah Ibn something&#33;) And of course the Native Americans discovered it first....... <_<

[Comrade_Scott]

ive heard so much about this topic that im sick of it. i hear africans found it then the vikings then indians and then the europeans. OK we get it it was found by guess what.. A PERSON&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; now please let it go ;) does it really matter who found the damn hunk of rock lol

[Comrade_Scott]

ok im done with my rant i found this http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa080700a.htm

[Janus]

I watched a documentary on this theory not too long ago and I must say that although it is quite interesting, there are also a lot of holes in Menzies&#39; theory. Since a lot of records of Zheng He&#39;s fleet are no longer available, Menzies had to base his theory on other evidence which are hotly contested such as the Newport lighthouse and the Bimini Road. One thing&#39;s for certain, Menzies definitely needs to get more hard evidence rather than simple "interpretations" of strange phenomenon and records in order to gain greater support for his theory.

[Phalanx]

There&#39;s a significant amount of evidence that shows that the Vikings landed in Newfoundland prior to 1492. I think the estimated date was 1000.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I wouldn&#39;t find it that suprising, considering the technological achievements and general "know-how" of the chinese people, in the maritime field.

A bit off topic, but to illustrate this:


As early as the eight century Liu Yen, the commissioner for salt and iron under T&#39;ang, had over 2,000 boats built for service on the Yangtze alone. Each could carry about ten tons of cargo and in total they were equivalent to a third of the total British merchant fleet a thousand years later. When Marco Polo visited China in the late thirteenth century (after a period of very destructive warfare) he found over 5,000 ships afloat in Yangtze at the one port of I-ching and learnt that there were similarly vast numbers in the other 200 ports.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 29, 2007 02:47 pm
There&#39;s a significant amount of evidence that shows that the Vikings landed in Newfoundland prior to 1492. I think the estimated date was 1000.
I think that is largely agreed upon. But again I am looking for sources of Chinese exploration of the wester coast of the new world.

[chimx]

I don&#39;t know anything about the subject. 1421 is a recent book, but is definately "popular" history. For historians, I think it is important to remember that ultimately the idea of any Chinese discovery should be kept in the realm of East Asian history, because ultimately the alleged voyage did not leave a lasting legacy on American culture.

Obviously other groups discovered it, but it was Columbus&#39;s trip that popularized it, and thus influenced it a great deal.

[Janus]

I wouldn&#39;t find it that suprising, considering the technological achievements and general "know-how" of the chinese people, in the maritime field.
In terms of construction yes but in terms of navigation then no. The Chinese didn&#39;t a lot of experience as deep-sea mariners and had to bring along more experienced personnel. Keep in mind that in the 15th century, the Chinese were still using superstitious, arcane rituals to judge the winds.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

[rebelworker]

I think the point about the winds is important and something I know nothing about, but fr navagation reading the sky is the most important thing for traveling long distances.

I think the Chinese grasp of math and similar sciences, plus the huge vessels and the massive manpower at there disposal makes a good argument for them circumnavigation of the globe.

There have also been finds of what apear to be chinese anchors on the west coast of latin america. i had a archelogist tell me about that about 10 years ago, before the 1421 book, which i incidentally just started to read again aftr putting in down for several years.

The buisness about the vikings is very wide spread in Canada, the govt has even made a comercial about it as part of the"canadian heritage" serries of govt ads.

Apperntly there is a chapter in Colubuses diary that speaks about them passing african ships going east in the middle of the pacific.

There re also alot of evidence that portugese sailors had been west before Columbus.
And there was a potugesse king who wanted to try and find the new world before Columub had left, because he had heard rumors about chinese maps or soemthing of the sort.

All this is humbled collections of info, and i am by no means an expert on the subject, so take it at face value. But I recomend reading 1421 by Menzies. If anything its a very intersting read with some interesting history about China.

[Marukusu]

The chinese did have at least some knowledge about deep-sea travels since admiral Zheng He travelled all the way to Africa with a fleet in the 15th century.
The expedition even brought a giraffe home to the emperor:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/MalindiGiraffe.jpg/294px-MalindiGiraffe.jpg

However, the real evidence of chinese expeditions to the Americas are few, other than wierd theories. Nothing is impossible though.

Edit: wrong century

[Janus]

The chinese did have at least some knowledge about deep-sea travels since admiral Zheng He travelled all the way to Africa with a fleet in the 15th century.
Yes, they gained this knowledge through these voyages rather than before.


but fr navagation reading the sky is the most important thing for traveling long distances.
Currently yes but our knowledge of astronomy was not as advanced back then.

[Invader Zim]

It is pretty much irrelevent who discovered it, what is relevent is that it was the Early Modern period that saw the first major European interaction on the continent and that it was Columbus&#39;s ludicrous dreams of reinventing the Catholic world, with funds made from trade with the Far East, the was the catalyst for this.