Ishmael

[Abbigail]

Amazing book, I think.

Any thoughts? I don't even know where to get started.

[Nemichka]

Hey... I know you... :D

What is Ishmael about, exactly? I looked for a copy in our school library, but they don&#39;t carry it <_<

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 03:48 am
Hey... I know you... :D

What is Ishmael about, exactly? I looked for a copy in our school library, but they don&#39;t carry it <_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_%28novel%29

Fun book to read, along with Beyond Civilization.

Basically primitivism. And I don&#39;t mean agriarian-communism, Quinn argues that competition and the ruin of man kind began with the agrarian revolution, not industrial. He is basically calling for some sort of neo hunter-gatherer society and a take/create as needed mode of production.

[Nemichka]

Thanks&#33; I&#39;ll try and see if our local second-hand bookstore has it or something.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+January 25, 2007 10:20 pm--> (Comrade Marcel @ January 25, 2007 10:20 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 03:48 am
Hey... I know you... :D

What is Ishmael about, exactly? I looked for a copy in our school library, but they don&#39;t carry it <_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_%28novel%29

Fun book to read, along with Beyond Civilization.

Basically primitivism. And I don&#39;t mean agriarian-communism, Quinn argues that competition and the ruin of man kind began with the agrarian revolution, not industrial. He is basically calling for some sort of neo hunter-gatherer society and a take/create as needed mode of production. [/b]
I thought he made it pretty clear in Beyond Civilization that he isn&#39;t advocating primitivism, but rather a modern society based more on tribal forms of organization.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+January 26, 2007 05:09 pm--> (black coffee black metal @ January 26, 2007 05:09 pm)
Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 25, 2007 10:20 pm

[email protected] 26, 2007 03:48 am
Hey... I know you... :D

What is Ishmael about, exactly? I looked for a copy in our school library, but they don&#39;t carry it <_<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_%28novel%29

Fun book to read, along with Beyond Civilization.

Basically primitivism. And I don&#39;t mean agriarian-communism, Quinn argues that competition and the ruin of man kind began with the agrarian revolution, not industrial. He is basically calling for some sort of neo hunter-gatherer society and a take/create as needed mode of production.
I thought he made it pretty clear in Beyond Civilization that he isn&#39;t advocating primitivism, but rather a modern society based more on tribal forms of organization. [/b]
"Tribalism"... That&#39;s primitivism... You can call it whatever you want, "hunter-gatherer", "primitive communism", "tribalism".

Whatever you prefer... the bottom line is it won&#39;t work.

[Abbigail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 03:48 am
Hey... I know you... :D
you do?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 26, 2007 06:48 pm
"Tribalism"... That&#39;s primitivism... You can call it whatever you want, "hunter-gatherer", "primitive communism", "tribalism".
No, "tribalism" is something very different from "hunter-gatherer." One describes a form of social organization, the other a method of food production.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by black coffee black metal+February 07, 2007 03:33 am--> (black coffee black metal &#064; February 07, 2007 03:33 am)
Comrade [email protected] 26, 2007 06:48 pm
"Tribalism"... That&#39;s primitivism... You can call it whatever you want, "hunter-gatherer", "primitive communism", "tribalism".
No, "tribalism" is something very different from "hunter-gatherer." One describes a form of social organization, the other a method of food production. [/b]
Explain how a hunter gather society can exist without the tribal social organization.

My point is that the Tribal organization is the class that drove the hunter gatherer or primitive communist society.

[bcbm]

Explain how a hunter gather society can exist without the tribal social organization.

Some hunter-gatherer (gatherer-hunter, more correctly) societies were organizd on semi-feudal lines, with positions of authority and a loose "class" structure of ruling elites, non-ruling members of the society, and even slaves in some cases. The tribal structure was more beneficial than this in such a society for obvious reasons, but other systems developed. I would hypothesize that abundance of resources derived from gathering and hunting plays some part in this, but I haven&#39;t looked in to it so its pure conjecture.


My point is that the Tribal organization is the class that drove the hunter gatherer or primitive communist society

Not always, and it doesn&#39;t mean that it is the only situation in which tribal organization is applicable. Quinn talks a good bit about this in BC, didn&#39;t you read it? ;)

[Comrade Marcel]

Ok, I see what you mean.

It was about 2 years ago that I read Ishmael and I read BC shortly after; I actually found it at a Value Village for &#036;0.99. :)

[bcbm]

Worth every penny&#33; ;-) Yeah, it is getting to be awhile since I read it. I was actually talking about it with Felicia the other night and realized his argument was pretty full of shit.

[Comrade Marcel]

Apparently there is a film based on Ish, though I have had no luck getting it on torrent sites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct_%28film%29

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 08, 2007 06:30 am
Apparently there is a film based on Ish, though I have had no luck getting it on torrent sites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct_%28film%29
I saw it in TV some months back. That movie is really fantastic. But I thought that it was based on Environmentalism and psychology not on Primitivism or Tribalism or whatever it is.No luck in fining in torrents though.