Please Help

[Everyday Anarchy]

Hey all. There's a new kid at my school and we've hit it off pretty well. However, I just recently found out that he's a Nazi. He despises other races and Jews.
He's really nice and I've never heard him get political so far, but another one of my friends have asked him if he's a Nazi and he confirmed it. He said he hates "spics, niggers, sand niggers, and jews."


Does anyone have any ideas on how to approach this? He really is a great guy, at least to me. I want to help correct his ideas so he can be an overall better person than he is now.

[Comrade Marcel]

Don't bother. Walk away and have nothing to do with him. In fact, it's your duty to kick his ass if he ever even thinks about physically hurting someone.

[Nemichka]

Don't try and confront him... You might want to ask him why he has these views. Don't try and make it seem like your views are superior, but just explain to him why you disagree. That's the first step, I think.
I can't imagine why he would be a nazi unless his parents force-fed the ideas to him, and in this case, you, as a friend, might be able to help him out. Everyone loves rebelling against their parents anyway :P

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Don't judge him badly right away, he is most likely indoctrinated by his environment and doesn't know any better. Ask him why he feels that way, what reasons he has for hating them, what they've done wrong according to him, and counter his "arguments" (if he can come up with any). You know you're right and he's in the wrong, don't forget that. So basically there is nothing to be afraid of. I don't know how your debating skills are, but if they're decent you might bring hm to the insight that he's just been indoctrinated and only repeats what others have told him. If he has any selfrespect, he'll realise he's just being used and he'll be thankful for pointing it out to him. If he's dumb, he'll just ignore your counterarguments and to be honest, it's not worth hanging out with him (or at least, that's how I feel about it). I know the feeling, I've had friends that I later found out are racists, I convinced a few and they felt dumb for believing in racism (all of them were parentally fed the nonsense). Some wouldn't listen to reason, so I told them to fuck off.
Good luck!

[seraphim]

There's not alot you can do except take a stand tell him that no matter how much you get along you can't be associated with anyone holding or expressing a racist view. If that doesn't work lynch him so he knows what it feels like :D

[An archist]

Most racists are racist because they are looking for an easy scapegoat for their (or the nation's) problems or because they feel the need to be part of a group. The best thing you can do is explain him the way society really works and the fact that 'race' doesn't play a part in capitalism. Capitalists don't care what a person looks like (unless they are in a represantative function), they only care for profits, and thta's exactly what's causing most problems in the world today.
If he's a real nazi however, this might be a problem, those people are just sick.

[Question everything]

I know how you are feel I have a friend, he's not a Nazi but He admits to being both a "Conservative" and an "Asshole" (not to hard to find a combination of the two, now is it?) he stereotypes, and is pretty rude about it, he says he stereotypes (racial and non-racial) for because he is stereotyped (as a nerd, though he argues he's not), I have argued and argued with him over the fact that all this is pointless, he doesn't listen he just calls me a hippie and sometimes a commie (this started long before I adopted much of my leftist view). I say that these people are the people with the shit that the capitalist elite shove down their throats. I know how hard it is to argue with them, just try to stop them before they turn in to accual Nazis, these people are more happy with the statis quo, but perhaps they will be less likely to hate leftist if they had a leftist, don't try to convert him, then he will just get pissed off, but perhaps when he is older he will remember his leftist friend before he starts fighting them, and if you must argue be casual, show him that even though you are white, you have no problem with as he calls them
"spics, niggers, sand niggers, and jews."

[Forward Union]

Engage him in debate and he'll show his true colours. Then you won't have any second thoughts about engaging him physically, or ignoring him.

[Question everything]

I guess it depend on whether this guy is a real skin head :unsure: , if he is then just tell everyone, and see what the minority kid, or as he calls them,
"spics, niggers, sand niggers, and jews." think of his comments, and then either sit back and watch the racist get pummeled ;) , or even join in!!! :D

[Felicia]

hate and racism are things that are next to impossible to justify logically. I recently had a similar experience with people whom I didn't know were neo-nazi's until I ended up at their home.... not a fun experience let me tell you..

The first thing I would suggest is to inquire into his reasons for feeling this way and holding these opinions. Do not be confrontational, when people feel threatened they become defensive. You say he seems nice, so he may be open to casual conversation. Many people hold opinions they they cannot justify to themselves, these most often result from our environment and not conscious choice to believe in certain ideas/concepts. You need to get his mind thinking, thinking about himself, thinking about his environment, thinking about why he's been influenced and thinking about ways to acknowledge these faults in his beliefs and he needs to take action to correct these behaviours, but you can't make him come around he needs to figure these things out on his own, upon self reflection. What you can do is be friendly, warm and open with him. Be open with your ideas in a non-confrontational/non-violent way (ie "the only good nazi is a dead nazi" is an incredibly disgusting thing to say, hate is hate no matter who it's directed towards and only inforces this mindset), allow him to also express his beliefs, let him feel comfortable to do so and when he does so, question him. Don't question him because you hate his opinions, question him because you care about his well-being. We know these ideas are wrong, hateful and repulsive, but they do not' see it that way. I guess just gradually introduce him to leftist ideas, hopefully he'll begin to question his own ideas.

[Red Menace]

My friend said he was a nazi, and he continues to this day, claiming he is one. I really don't believe him though, I think he is just looking for attention.

Back to your situation, I would normally say kick his ass. But Honestly, in my opinion, many would disagree with it. Just go with it, be his friend, don't even bring up politics. If it gets to it though, like where he's bringing up that nazi shit unprovoked, I say open-season.

I have alot of republican friends. I debate em, and shit, and we will always disagree. But they aren't dicks about it usually. I don't mean to compare republicans to Nazi's but thats as close to your situation that i can relate to, that and my pseudo nazi friend.

[ahab]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 26, 2007 04:16 am
Don't bother. Walk away and have nothing to do with him. In fact, it's your duty to kick his ass if he ever even thinks about physically hurting someone.
I agree 100% kick this his ass, its useless debating and trying to change these fuckers minds. I dont know how great of a guy he could be if he's a nazi, the best way to deal with him would be to pound his face into the ground :)

[metalero]

I understand you; I just recently realized how rightist an old time friend of mine is, showing anti communism, and some racism. We have engaged in hard debates about politics, and despite I don't consider him a fascist, he's a neo-conservative, who might go further to the extreme right. Since we had the last "rough talk" he hasn't shown his petty racist views in front of me, neither his disgusting support for the "war on terror". I can tolerate his right wing politics but never fascism. Of course this has affected our friendship, to the point that I don't trust him enough to be a friend anymore, but a mere acquaintance for hanging out. I advice you to debate respectfully with him about politics, but if after some time he keeps his views and doesn't even moderate in front of you, show him that you won't tolerate his crap and ignore him. Don't ever hold your disgust when he says something racist.

[EwokUtopia]

If your in high school, its probably just an immature ego trip. There are alot of confused white males who are looking for an identity to cling to, and Nazism makes them stronger/smarter/better than they actually are by way of race, so frustrated kids turn to it. Id say just tell him where he's wrong and let him grow out of it.

[Fawkes]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to approach this?
Murder him.

I think you should attempt to engage him in a debate and try to sway him to your side but as soon as it looks like he won't budge, don't waste your energy on him anymore.

[Cyanide Suicide]

Not too long ago I became aware of a Nazi that goes to my school. In fact, before I started driving to school he rode my bus. Anyway, I came across his myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=44424648) one time and it was decked out in all this nazi/hitler stuff. I was pissed so I sent him a message calling him scum, but then you could say we debated. At first I was shocked by the way he presented himself, he's in 8th grade (age 12 or 13 probably), but the way he typed made him seem much older and intelligent. So we're debating, and then he starts making this false claims about Jews, blacks, etc, so I just told him to fuck off. If I had to see him on a daily basis I'd probably have to kick his ass.

[Fawkes]

You should have asked him to provide proof for his claims.

[EwokUtopia]

I think people need to take a more tolerant approach to young kids who are caught up in the nazi shit. Its a phase, and phases end, plus their probably just running their mouths and not actually harming anyone physically. You need to educate them, not threaten or physically harm them, that will do nothing but solidify their fucked up beliefs. These are mostly frustrated angst ridden kids who are pissed off at the same system we are, but have had their minds warped by online propaganda. we need to liberate them from their hate and make leftists of them, not attack them and drive them further into Hitlerian beliefs. Their beliefs, however intelligently they present them, are fucked up and wrong, and if they are in fact intelligent it is very possibly to show them how and why they are wrong, and when they grow out of that phase, they will likely become avid anti-nazi's. If this kid is in grade 8 as you said, you should NOT kick his ass or anything of the sort. He is the product of a fear ridden culture, and Nazism is the height of paranoid fear and angst. These people need to be helped, not harmed. Cured, not destroyed. It is possible, and it is necessary. a low minded assault based approach to young Nazi's will only add to their fear and fuel the conflagration of their ideals, this must be avoided, no matter how annoyed/pissed off you may be. Remember that they are just dumb teens who still need to sort out their lives and beliefs. A good example is George Burdi, a former lead singer in the racist band RaHoWa, Burdi has since renounced Nazism, Racism, and hatred and become a member of a multiracial band called Novacosm.

Redemption is possible and infinately better than destruction.

Of course this does not apply to the older nazi's who are warping their minds, they are truly scumbags who do not deserve the time of day.

[Cyanide Suicide]

Well, I did try to reason with this kid, I stayed calm and didn't attack him really. He resisted though, and kept going on about how we have to "preserve our white history" and "not mix with other cultures for that will completely wipe away our history." But he comes from a Nazi family though, which is why I see little help for him.

[Auto_anarchy]

You cant reason with an indoctrinated nazi, the fuckers are fully brainwashed, and must be hunted down and bashed everywhere they are seen!

[Felicia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 02:10 am
You cant reason with an indoctrinated nazi, the fuckers are fully brainwashed, and must be hunted down and bashed everywhere they are seen!
just like you can't reason with an indoctrinated leftist?

that's the pot calling the kettle... steel.

[ahab]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 01:48 am
I think people need to take a more tolerant approach to young kids who are caught up in the nazi shit. Its a phase, and phases end, plus their probably just running their mouths and not actually harming anyone physically. You need to educate them, not threaten or physically harm them, that will do nothing but solidify their fucked up beliefs. These are mostly frustrated angst ridden kids who are pissed off at the same system we are, but have had their minds warped by online propaganda. we need to liberate them from their hate and make leftists of them, not attack them and drive them further into Hitlerian beliefs. Their beliefs, however intelligently they present them, are fucked up and wrong, and if they are in fact intelligent it is very possibly to show them how and why they are wrong, and when they grow out of that phase, they will likely become avid anti-nazi's. If this kid is in grade 8 as you said, you should NOT kick his ass or anything of the sort. He is the product of a fear ridden culture, and Nazism is the height of paranoid fear and angst. These people need to be helped, not harmed. Cured, not destroyed. It is possible, and it is necessary. a low minded assault based approach to young Nazi's will only add to their fear and fuel the conflagration of their ideals, this must be avoided, no matter how annoyed/pissed off you may be. Remember that they are just dumb teens who still need to sort out their lives and beliefs. A good example is George Burdi, a former lead singer in the racist band RaHoWa, Burdi has since renounced Nazism, Racism, and hatred and become a member of a multiracial band called Novacosm.

Redemption is possible and infinately better than destruction.

Of course this does not apply to the older nazi's who are warping their minds, they are truly scumbags who do not deserve the time of day.
I see what your saying, but getting your ass kicked can help you stop and think 'hmmm maybe being a racist nazi bastard IS wrong' so a beating is actually a POSITIVE thing lol, theyre nazi's, who fucking cares if theyre going through a phase or not, they still deserve what everyother nazi or fascist deserves, a beating.

[bezdomni]

If he is pretty, there is nothing you can do.

[Auto_anarchy]

Originally posted by Felicia+January 28, 2007 06:39 am--> (Felicia @ January 28, 2007 06:39 am)
[email protected] 28, 2007 02:10 am
You cant reason with an indoctrinated nazi, the fuckers are fully brainwashed, and must be hunted down and bashed everywhere they are seen!
just like you can't reason with an indoctrinated leftist?

that's the pot calling the kettle... steel. [/b]
Never thought of it that way, i guess my distaste for their views gets the better of me sometimes.... :D

[Felicia]

Originally posted by Auto_anarchy+January 28, 2007 07:33 am--> (Auto_anarchy @ January 28, 2007 07:33 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 06:39 am

[email protected] 28, 2007 02:10 am
You cant reason with an indoctrinated nazi, the fuckers are fully brainwashed, and must be hunted down and bashed everywhere they are seen!
just like you can't reason with an indoctrinated leftist?

that's the pot calling the kettle... steel.
Never thought of it that way, i guess my distaste for their views gets the better of me sometimes.... :D[/b]
yes, yes, it does. I hate to say it but it happens with most leftists cause they're so concerned with being 'leftists' and fighting 'fash' that they stop being intelligent human beings capable of intelligent unbiased thoughts/actions. That's not meant for you directly, I think it's high time we stop being defined by the standard reactions by the majority of leftists, and start letting what we believe and have deduced though analysis and rational thought to revolutionize leftism for the future. It's a new world kids, incase y'all haven't noticed :P

I'm not saying I'm a pacifist, but I believe in getting to the root of why some people hold the ideas and beliefs they do or else we will be fighting an endless battle............... and if that doesn't work, then you boot 'em in the arse, assuming they're threatening you, otherwise it's kind of senceless and sets a bad example and solves notihng except makes them hate us more.

We should not have our beliefs because we are leftists, we should be leftists because of our beliefs.

[Comrade_Scott]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 01:19 pm
If your in high school, its probably just an immature ego trip.
it probably is so beat it out of him :P then talk if that dont work walk away and dont ever talk to him again

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2007 05:10 am
You cant reason with an indoctrinated nazi, the fuckers are fully brainwashed, and must be hunted down and bashed everywhere they are seen!
No, that just makes you a thug and no better than they are. Violent words do not require violent actions, especially if they are comming out of the mouths of teen angst ridden youths. I have read much of what the online far-right is pushing down the throats of pissed off white males, and it says that leftists are violent thugs. Being a violent thug will proove in their minds that what theyve read is true, and this is one thing that must be avoided. Violent action is only necessary when they are being violent or verbally abusive. For instance, if they call a black person a "nigger" to their face, then punch the shit out of them. If they use the word "nigger" in their fractured political rantings, fight words with words. Such inflammitory words deem inflammitory words in responce, but not violence. The dangerous thing about the far right is they do use rhetoric which on the surface may seem to be positive, for instance, fascists I know are vehemountly anti-capitalist. Of course their notions of capitalism and its evils are rooted in anti-semitic lies, but their disdain for capitalism is a bridge to which we can reach them. If we tell them why their anti-capitalism completely misses the point, and the true nature of the system they hate, they may possibly be reached, even if we get pissed off at them and leave talks with them before our words sink into their hearts. reforming a single fascist is far far greater than beating a hundred, this is the goal and this is what must be done.

We are not talking about aggressive skinheads, we are talking about a 12 year old boy who has himself mixed up with terrible thoughts. I would NEVER support violent action against a 12 year old unless it is in defence of someone he is attacking. I realize that many of you are in your high school years and see these people as your peerage, but you must remember that high school sucks. It is filled with angst, depression, and the need for an ego to fill. That is what brought nearly all the stormfronters fascism, and that is, I suspect, what brought some of the more immature people on this forum (you know who you are) to skeward forms of poorly understood leftism. High school ends, and if these people have enough positive influences in their adolescence, fascism can end with it.

As hard as it may seem, I ask you to actually help your friend yourself. Become his friend, become a positive influence on his life. Show him that the bullshit he sees on BET is not reflective of the black community at all. Introduce him to non-white friends of yours. If he is at heart a good kid, then he will be redeemed. If not, then at least you did your best, and dont use violence against him unless his actions warrant such a response. Teenage fascism is an ego booster, and our enemies enlist new recruits to this bullshit by catering to their quest for a strong, delusional ego. The only way to combat this is by recognizing their lies for what they are: propaganda aimed at frustrated white kids. Remember that these are kids we are talking about, and they need to be treated as such. They are going through a stupid phase in their lives, the difference between them and the emo's and gangsta kids is that they have been fed this extremely dangerous idealogical fad by sick older bastards on the internet.

Show your friend Louis and the Nazi's (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1009039898277591286&q=louis+and+the+nazi) so he can better understand the roots of the delusional ideas he subscribes to. Education is the strongest weapon against contemporary fascism, not fists. The last thing we need is martyrs-of-sorts to neofascism. The younger the nazi, the more essential the absense of violence is when dealing with them. These are frustrated kids who need and deserve our help, they will be happier with love than they will with hate, beating them up will only fill them with hate and fear, which are the two primary weapons in the neonazi arsenal.

Violent action will only solidify their beliefs and should be reserved as a responce to violent action on their part.

[An archist]

Thanks Ewok, for talking sense. :)

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by EwokUtopia
Violent action will only solidify their beliefs and should be reserved as a responce to violent action on their part.

That's your opinion.

Have you actually done a study to confirm this, i.e. do you have the study to back this up, statistics, ect.? Do you have sociological evidence that the crusades, colonialism, slavery, Bonapartism, Fascism, Nazism, etc. would have been stopped much more effecively if "they where just reasoned with"? Are you a psychologist/psychiatrist who has interviewed neo-nazis and have significantly reviewed their behaviour enough to make this assertion? Have you worked in the anti-fascist / anti-racist movement for a significant period of time, and have confronted/talked to neo-nazis and have tried different tactics that lead you to your conclusion?

If you can't answer yes to atleast one of these, might I suggest your opinion is nothing more than baseless and not very useful?

I can answer yes to at least the last one, and I would rather see violence used in premeptive self defense in order to prevent nazis from organizing anything at all. Just attempting a conversation with a neo-nazi is a security/safety risk and I would seriously question the experience and intelligence of anyone who tells you otherwise.

[EwokUtopia]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+January 29, 2007 10:39 pm--> (Comrade Marcel @ January 29, 2007 10:39 pm)
EwokUtopia
Violent action will only solidify their beliefs and should be reserved as a responce to violent action on their part.

That's your opinion.

Have you actually done a study to confirm this, i.e. do you have the study to back this up, statistics, ect.? Do you have sociological evidence that the crusades, colonialism, slavery, Bonapartism, Fascism, Nazism, etc. would have been stopped much more effecively if "they where just reasoned with"? Are you a psychologist/psychiatrist who has interviewed neo-nazis and have significantly reviewed their behaviour enough to make this assertion? Have you worked in the anti-fascist / anti-racist movement for a significant period of time, and have confronted/talked to neo-nazis and have tried different tactics that lead you to your conclusion?

If you can't answer yes to atleast one of these, might I suggest your opinion is nothing more than baseless and not very useful?

I can answer yes to at least the last one, and I would rather see violence used in premeptive self defense in order to prevent nazis from organizing anything at all. Just attempting a conversation with a neo-nazi is a security/safety risk and I would seriously question the experience and intelligence of anyone who tells you otherwise. [/b]
Dude! We're talking about kids here! You cited the Crusades, last time I checked, the Childrens crusade didnt do much more than to fuck over the kids involved. That is essentially what kids involved in neofascism are doing to themselves. It is our duty as human beings to help these kids.

An organized party comprised of adults is one thing, but my posts, if you read clearly, are concerning kids caught up in neonazi phases, if you suggest beating these kids up, you are clearly a sick minded individual.

But perhaps you're only a kid yourself, in which case your immature fetish of violence is an understandable result of adolescence.

[Comrade Marcel]

Ewok, don't put words in my mouth.

Let's get things right. We are not talking about "kids" if we are talking about high school. Kids are like under 14. Anyone under 14 is very rare to be a nazi, commie, or anything else unless they have been indoctrined by their parents, or in a very extremely rare case on their own. Obviously no adult is going to go and beat an underage kid (without a really good reason).

I cited the crusades because it is something that has a historical connection to white supremacism and I highly doubt the people leading them could be talked to rationally. I don't think there was many kids involved that chose to take up the crusades on their own, especially against their parents will. Most where indotrined by their parents, while many of these rare cases of "kids" or youth are nazis against the wishes of their parents. Times are different.

I don't give a fuck about someone else's kids who want to beat up my kids because they are not aryan. I have no fucking duty to help these kids. I'll break their fucking face if they fuck with my family though, and I'll be sastified I did so even though I would go to jail for it. You can think it's juvenile if you want, but I think your talking like a stupid hippy so you can kiss my ass. ;) If you want to act differently that's your choice.

High school is more violent than most adults everyday situation. How often are you bullied at work? How many "cliques" are there at your work place? In fact, younger kids are facing more and more violence at school these days. My kids talk about more shit going down at school in one week then I think ever happened to me in the average year at school. The oldest is 10.

I chalk this up to the general attitude caused by commodity fetishism, lack of after-school programs and other things; but if there was racism put in the picture I would basically slap the fucker's kids myself and then out the fucking parents while I'm at it.

Nazism isn't a phase like wearing a hat tilted to the left, or pokeman cards. It's a political ideology and if you are mature enough to come to conclusions as such you may face certain consequences.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Nevermind us being friends. I've had enough. I did a little digging on him... he's on probation right now-- charged with hate crime. Before he came to my school, him and three friends (all who had just recently shaved their heads) went into a Jewish center around here and called one of the ladies there a kike. He was also suspected of vandalism (ruining a pool table in the center) earlier. His myspace includes a video about a neo-nazi playing the victim in society and explains what he believes (one reason to hate blacks is because "they smell bad" [another has to do with whites having a 15% larger frontal lobe in the brain, can anyone confirm this?]).
He also has a scar on his leg of a swastika.

Today in class, we were writing on a piece of paper doodling and I wrote "Fuck Nazis" and he laughed and said that he feels like that might have been targeted at him.



Publication date:Aug 29, 2006
Weekday:Tuesday
Page Number:A-3
Editions:1 star
Kick:County courts
Headline:Teen to be sentenced next month for racist remark
Writer:By [censor]

[city] — A 16-year-old [city] boy who scared a woman at the Hillel
Foundation on campus by making a disparaging remark about Jews will be
sentenced in [city] County Circuit Court next month.
The youth pleaded guilty Monday in juvenile court before Judge [name]
to a charge of hate crime, admitting that on May 4, as he was leaving the
Jewish student center at [snip address], he uttered a remark that
alarmed and disturbed a woman who heard it. [Judge] set sentencing for Sept.
29.
In exchange for the plea, the prosecutor agreed to dismiss other charges
of burglary and institutional vandalism accusing him of damaging property
at the foundation in April.
State's Attorney [name] said when the youth was arrested, he told
police he considers himself a ´skinhead´ who does not like Jews.
The 16 year old is this boy. By the way, I snipped out city names or addresses for paranoia reasons.

[Cyanide Suicide]

What a ****, good job on deciding to leave that ***** behind.

[ahab]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 30, 2007 06:37 am
You can think it's juvenile if you want, but I think your talking like a stupid hippy so you can kiss my ass. ;)
lmfao!

Seriously, you cant debate or have an intelligent conversation with those fuckers, they are to brainwashed and set in their ways. It wouldnt make much sense to beat up a little kid, but like comrade marcel said, their arent very many kid nazi's, unless brought up that way. Im still in high school and can tell you from experiance that the skinheads that live around me wouldnt give a shit if you were 5 years old and a jew or black or mexican, they still would start shit with you, for that reason I see it the same way, as long as their not to young I dont mind beating their asses. Violence is effective too, there was a whole group of nazi's, probably near 40 people when I first moved here, after getting together with kids from other schools and mine we made a kind of antifa, ARA group and have pretty much taken care of the nazi problem here, he destroyed their club houses and their numbers are greatly smaller, there are none (at least none brave enough to admit it) at my school and we harass the older ones enough that if there group is still around they are to scared to make it public.

Point being the passive approach to things is, although sometimes effective, overall ineffective.




Nevermind us being friends. I've had enough. I did a little digging on him... he's on probation right now-- charged with hate crime. Before he came to my school, him and three friends (all who had just recently shaved their heads) went into a Jewish center around here and called one of the ladies there a kike. He was also suspected of vandalism (ruining a pool table in the center) earlier. His myspace includes a video about a neo-nazi playing the victim in society and explains what he believes (one reason to hate blacks is because "they smell bad" [another has to do with whites having a 15% larger frontal lobe in the brain, can anyone confirm this?]).
He also has a scar on his leg of a swastika.

Today in class, we were writing on a piece of paper doodling and I wrote "Fuck Nazis" and he laughed and said that he feels like that might have been targeted at him.



Publication date:Aug 29, 2006
Weekday:Tuesday
Page Number:A-3
Editions:1 star
Kick:County courts
Headline:Teen to be sentenced next month for racist remark
Writer:By [censor]

[city] — A 16-year-old [city] boy who scared a woman at the Hillel
Foundation on campus by making a disparaging remark about Jews will be
sentenced in [city] County Circuit Court next month.
The youth pleaded guilty Monday in juvenile court before Judge [name]
to a charge of hate crime, admitting that on May 4, as he was leaving the
Jewish student center at [snip address], he uttered a remark that
alarmed and disturbed a woman who heard it. [Judge] set sentencing for Sept.
29.
In exchange for the plea, the prosecutor agreed to dismiss other charges
of burglary and institutional vandalism accusing him of damaging property
at the foundation in April.
State's Attorney [name] said when the youth was arrested, he told
police he considers himself a ´skinhead´ who does not like Jews.

The 16 year old is this boy. By the way, I snipped out city names or addresses for paranoia reasons.

confront this muthafucker, BEAT the shit out of him, he sounds militant enough, knock his teeth out! I would suggest more, but i've already been warned about advising weapons use, hopefully you'll pick up that hint lol

[EwokUtopia]

High school kids are still kids. They may have adult bodies and capabilities, and if they are commiting hate crimes, thats a completely different story, but if they are running their mouths, one must remember that people that age are still quite immature for the most part and need to do some growing up. For me to attack one of these kids would not be right, considering the age difference, unless under extreme provocation. Nazism can be a fad, because it is often inspired by hate-rock, and the music brings most young nazi's to the idealogy, that is a very common starting place. I've no doubt in my mind that some of you were brought to leftism by Rage Against the Machine and Anti-Flag and such bands, consider the effects of Skrewdriver on young impressionable and frustrated kids (largely white males, but there are a few exceptions to this, remember the Red Lake massacre.)

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, and attacking these kids will cure nothing. It will at best make them shut up and keep their beliefs inward to fester, and at worst make them martyrs-of-sorts. I think people here place too much faith on the rationalizing capabilities of adolescent mindsets. High school is for many people a difficult time of great confusion and frustration, and people do or say things in this period of their lives that they will later come to regret. Take the example of gay teenagers who go through high school being militantly anti-gay. I know plenty of these people, and Im sure many people here know such cases as well.

Nazism is a cult of hyper-masculinity, and Ive no doubt in my mind that many kids who profess nazism in their youths do so out of insecurity and trying to proove themselves to be macho. There are other ways of doing this of course, but some impressionable kids who stumble across the wrong bands or websites do take this path to proove their so-called masculinity.

When talking about young nazi's, you have to consider the causes. Impressionability is a huge cause, so is gender roles, and so is, in probably most cases, inferiority complexes.

Your assuming that these kids are actively violent skinheads, and that may be the case, in that case its a bit different, but in my experiance, the fascists I have dealt with are all theory and rhetoric and no violence. In fact, Im not sure that theyve even been in a fight. The thing about this type of fascist, which I can guarentee is the large majority of neofascists, is that they love to debate, and this gives us a channel to refute their broken logic, and perhaps in time turn them away from the path theyre on. Using violence against words is a horrible strategy that will only harm the situation, wouldnt you agree? Suppose you were in a debate with a neoconservative, and he punched you in the face and kicked your ass (you also make the assumption that you are going to win in a fight against the neofascists), would it make you shut up, or would it make you speak louder?


Id like to hear what you people would actually hope to achieve by using violence against these kids (in cases where they arent being actively violent to begin with). What do you think this will accomplish, aside from making you feel big and right about your actions? Have you considered the possible repercussions? The fact that you have likely solidified their views? Do you even care about that? Your tactics seem to me to be flawed at best, and at worst just another manifestation of egotistical hyper-masculinity.

[EwokUtopia]

By the way, my response: send that hate-crime commiting kid to a mental institute, not a hospital.

[Comrade Marcel]

Ewok, what your saying is not bad or incorrect, and I don't completely disagree with you, but you are assuming that one powerful dominant force (for example, a strong white male communist) is going to be enforcing a less powerful persyn (the young, niave teenage neo-nazi).

The case may more likely be that people of the same age group are going to be battling it out. The chances are likely that it is going to turn violent. It may be Black Vs. White, and there may be some people on one side or the other simply because they are Black or White and no real scientific/political reasons.

My point is, that if you are going to be using political arguments, your energy and time should be used to influence others to join your side in nothing more than the supression of the neo-nazi(s). The nazis have to be left to come around on their own, or at the very least no more than one attempt from the anti-side.

[ahab]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31, 2007 02:02 am
High school kids are still kids. They may have adult bodies and capabilities, and if they are commiting hate crimes, thats a completely different story, but if they are running their mouths, one must remember that people that age are still quite immature for the most part and need to do some growing up. For me to attack one of these kids would not be right, considering the age difference, unless under extreme provocation. Nazism can be a fad, because it is often inspired by hate-rock, and the music brings most young nazi's to the idealogy, that is a very common starting place. I've no doubt in my mind that some of you were brought to leftism by Rage Against the Machine and Anti-Flag and such bands, consider the effects of Skrewdriver on young impressionable and frustrated kids (largely white males, but there are a few exceptions to this, remember the Red Lake massacre.)

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, and attacking these kids will cure nothing. It will at best make them shut up and keep their beliefs inward to fester, and at worst make them martyrs-of-sorts. I think people here place too much faith on the rationalizing capabilities of adolescent mindsets. High school is for many people a difficult time of great confusion and frustration, and people do or say things in this period of their lives that they will later come to regret. Take the example of gay teenagers who go through high school being militantly anti-gay. I know plenty of these people, and Im sure many people here know such cases as well.

Nazism is a cult of hyper-masculinity, and Ive no doubt in my mind that many kids who profess nazism in their youths do so out of insecurity and trying to proove themselves to be macho. There are other ways of doing this of course, but some impressionable kids who stumble across the wrong bands or websites do take this path to proove their so-called masculinity.

When talking about young nazi's, you have to consider the causes. Impressionability is a huge cause, so is gender roles, and so is, in probably most cases, inferiority complexes.

Your assuming that these kids are actively violent skinheads, and that may be the case, in that case its a bit different, but in my experiance, the fascists I have dealt with are all theory and rhetoric and no violence. In fact, Im not sure that theyve even been in a fight. The thing about this type of fascist, which I can guarentee is the large majority of neofascists, is that they love to debate, and this gives us a channel to refute their broken logic, and perhaps in time turn them away from the path theyre on. Using violence against words is a horrible strategy that will only harm the situation, wouldnt you agree? Suppose you were in a debate with a neoconservative, and he punched you in the face and kicked your ass (you also make the assumption that you are going to win in a fight against the neofascists), would it make you shut up, or would it make you speak louder?


Id like to hear what you people would actually hope to achieve by using violence against these kids (in cases where they arent being actively violent to begin with). What do you think this will accomplish, aside from making you feel big and right about your actions? Have you considered the possible repercussions? The fact that you have likely solidified their views? Do you even care about that? Your tactics seem to me to be flawed at best, and at worst just another manifestation of egotistical hyper-masculinity.
most the nazi's I've dealt with are the ones I've either seen walkin down the street, in the mall, or have come and interrupted our shows just to fight. I would agree that a lot of these skinheads just do it either for attention or to feel they belong, but that doesnt mean they wont go do things that are fucked up. They are pressured by older nazi's to fight us (the local antifa and other leftists) and harass the gay and miniroty community. Its not so bad anymore cuz like I said we've pretty much cleaned the streets around here, also this is a large mormon community and they dont usually tolerate that shit either. Some of those 'kids' your talking about have stabbed my friends, raped young leftists that I kno and are responsible for the death of a young gay man that they were never charged for. These fuckers are a threat, whether kid or not, im not just going to stand by and debate with them.

What do I hope to achieve? I want to wipe out any remnant of that fucker hitlers ideology, I want to show any racist, sexist, anti-semitist, red-neck, etc. that their believes are not welcome. I believe the government uses nazi and fascist groups to terrorize the left and so I hope to stop that too. I want those nazi's to see that there is no room for their hate and racism and that if they choose to believe that way there are people who will stand up to them.

In cases where they arent being violent, I will usually start the fight because I know if I try and debate with them thats where its gonna end up anyway.

I also dont do it to act 'big', that has nothing to do with it, I just know that if we dont stand up to them they will walk all over the community, they will continue to grow and recruit MORE young people, and so fighting them and shutting them down stops that.

Ok so it may solidify some of their views of us, but who cares, theyre going to be against us anyway, at least let them know not to fuck with us.

How is fighting egotistical hyper-masculinity? Violence is necessary, whether you think that or not.

[which doctor]

Just ignore him. There's no point in beating him just for the sake of beating up a nazi. To be honest, I've never really met a "real nazi." The nazi ideology has almost no potential for growth within America.

Don't bother with him unless he starts really fucking with you or other kids at school.

[Jude]

Seriously think about this...

Go over to his house, and introduce yourself as something like Jerry Finklestein. Depending on his family's reaction, debate, run, or throw a gas bomb!

[EwokUtopia]

The only Neofascists (I wouldnt go so far as to call them nazi's as they are a tad more toned down than that) I have ever dealt with use rhetoric instead of violence, but the rapist ones you cited, yeah, completely different situation. I have never in my life seen violent skinhead Nazi punks, but I was never talking about that to begin with. I was talking about the young rhetoric driven kid which is far more common than the violent hardcore skinhead. Then again, we dont have very much violence in my university...back at high school we had rednecks who got drunk and brawled, but that was non-idealogical idiocy. I have never been in a situation where I had to physically fight, nor do I want to be in that situation unless it is absolutely needed. But you need to make the distinction between a skinhead who is beating up black and jewish people and the crazy loudmouthed kid who likes to doodle swastikas and constantly play the Germans on Red Orchestra (any other players of this game are well aquainted with this type of Nazi...fun targets at least).

my ballpark estimate: 80-90% of Nazi's in high school are little more than loud-mouthed history buffs who havnt learned up to 1945 yet, or frustrated kids who get caught up on bad sites before they had a good introduction to the left (I think the far right has a slight advantage over us in cyberspace...Stormfront boasts far more members than we do, if Im not mistaken, and thats scary and sad). Point is, most nazi's are probably geeks with swastikas. They just dont make as loud an impact as the violent ones, so we dont really notice the shit they believe, but we can reach these kids, and we should.


If you think Im wrong, just look at some of the Stormfront kids avatars, they look like something from bloody fucking world of warcraft with white nationalism minced in. Or listen to some nazi music that is little more than a cheap racist knock-off of dragonforce.

There is a huge difference between the 1337 /\/421'5 and violent skinheads, and I really would not want to go about beating up a potentially good kid who doesnt know what the fuck he's getting himself into for a namesake. I am not a fan of gratuitous violence, and I dont believe violence should be used unless as a last resort, or in defence of people being attacked, or if they did something fucked up enough to warrant it, and doodling little swastika's and spouting poorly understood racist rhetoric is fucked up enough to demand a whole slew of argumentation in return, or isolation if hes annoying enough, but not an ass kicking.

[Question everything]

Call an exorcist!!! :lol:

but seriously, we are pretty much all saying the same thing, talk to the kid, try to reason with him... but if he is too arrogant to listen beat him shitless...

[Everyday Anarchy]

Sorry to bring back a nearly dead thread, but I just wanted to post an update for all of you. Myself and a small tight group of friends (with the potential to grow larger) are going to launch an "antifascist campaign" at our school. The nazi kid has been talking to others and unfortunately some people are finding the idea of being a nazi as 'fucking cool.'

The campaign will consist of fliers around the school, homemade t-shirts for anyone who wants one, discussing antifascism with others, calling the new kid on his bullshit, and exposing fascism for what it truly is.
We expect either two reactions, we'll be met militantly which we can confront with equal force. Or we may be able to at least get this nazi and any others who may be hidden in our school to begin to question their beliefs and/or realize we're keeping an eye on them.

[bcbm]

Good luck.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

This really isn't my normal reaction, and I'd normally side with Ewok, but if the guy is having any kind of success at persuading kids to nazism, you need to use violence. Don't hospitalise him, yet, just punish him for it. If you look like you could have hurt him much more, he'll be too scared to carry on I'd bet.

If he carries on you'll have to get more serious. :ph34r:

-Alex

[BurnTheOliveTree]

I'd also be tempted to trust Marcel's experience with the fuckers. If anyone knows what they're talking about with how to deal with them, it's probably him.

-Alex

[Question everything]

any one notice how nazis really are like scum? If you don't get rid of them quick they start multiplying?

[RASHskins]

i jsut give them one warning i have a talk with them discuss why they are nazi's try to influence them and give them the ultimattum. "if i see you again with that nazi patch on im gonna beat the fuck outa you". of course this is meant to fail i dotn expect them to change their beliefs but at least i gave them a chance. It usually wont work to that poitn even. violence will probably set in your first encounter.

[carpetcommie]

If you really like this guy try and reason with him, but if he's one of those real nazis dont bother even if you make the most valid point or proof they wont listen to you.