Short film regarding race

[chimx]

Here is an interesting news story regarding a young film maker's documentary. It deals with asking young black children which doll they prefer when given the choice between a white and block one. Its a little on the sad side:

http://www.komoradio.com/home/video/500185...l?video=pop&t=a (http://www.komoradio.com/home/video/5001856.html?video=pop&t=a)

Obviously the questions asked are a little biased. They imply that there is a "good" doll and a "bad" doll, leaving no room for a "null" option. Still interesting what most of them choose.

[Revalation]

It's the kids right to chose what doll they want but even so this film choked me up somthin bad

[R_P_A_S]

i think is crazy... how kids at such young age already automatically see white as good! and black as bad. How is this possible?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 09:59 pm
i think is crazy... how kids at such young age already automatically see white as good! and black as bad. How is this possible?
Well, white represents 'light', which in turn is associated with warmth and so forth - it usually represents 'good'. Black on the other hand represents an absence of light, thus cold and dark - black often is a representation of 'evil'. Note that this trend exists outside of the specturm of race relations and is visible in numerous other social events and attudes. For example, the bride in a wedding typically wears a white dress, at a funeral people wear black. To take a further example, in mythology the grim-reaper is always depicted with a pitch black cloak and cape, an angel on the other hand white robes and bright white light.

While refusing to make any, even tentative, conclusions, this is perhaps something to consider in addition to the other more obvious implications of the experiments results.

[An archist]

Think about how many children's stories have black people that are nice.
Light is good, Dark is bad. It's like that in almost every fairytale and children story.
Although I do remember a Brazilian song about 'the white devil'

[Global_Justice]

btw you can watch the actual documentary on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjy9q8VekmE

[Invader Zim]

Think about how many children's stories have black people that are nice.

Black people, or people represented with darkness? Consider that.


It's like that in almost every fairytale and children story.

Ah, but most of these Northen European mythologies and legends on which children's storys are based develop from a period in which contact with Africans and Africa would be limited if it even existed. With the exception of those from the most northerly parts of Africa, Africans would have been a completely unheard of uncontacted unit which the vast majority of Europeans would not know even existed. It was not until the Portuguese set up trading posts in Africa that a greater level of contact would have been initated between Europeans and Africans in the Medieval period.

yet, despite this lack of contact, the idea of darnkess being a thing to fear (I suspect it is a reflection on the cycles of the sun, daytime being bright and warm, night being cold and dark). To take example the Black Knight of Arthurian legend encapsulates the anti-hero of Chivalric culture. The typical enemy, the knight to be feared or faced, the knight who lacks many of the features of chivalric behaviour (Largesse, Justice, Faith, etc), but still retaining the other features (Prowess, nobility, etc).

Yet the Black knight, is not a knight with black skin, but a white man in black armour.

This trend of black being bad and good being white trancends a simple racial context.

[Hampton]

It's a shame that 60 years later Dr. Kenneth Clark's doll test is still ringing true.


In the "doll test," psychologists Kenneth and Mamie Clark used four plastic, diaper-clad dolls, identical except for color. They showed the dolls to black children between the ages of three and seven and asked them questions to determine racial perception and preference. Almost all of the children readily identified the race of the dolls. However, when asked which they preferred, the majority selected the white doll and attributed positive characteristics to it. The Clarks also gave the children outline drawings of a boy and girl and asked them to color the figures the same color as themselves. Many of the children with dark complexions colored the figures with a white or yellow crayon. The Clarks concluded that "prejudice, discrimination, and segregation" caused black children to develop a sense of inferiority and self-hatred. This photograph was taken by Gordon Parks for a 1947 issue of Ebony magazine.

[chimx]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 25, 2007 09:49 pm

Think about how many children's stories have black people that are nice.

Black people, or people represented with darkness? Consider that.


It's like that in almost every fairytale and children story.

Ah, but most of these Northen European mythologies and legends on which children's storys are based develop from a period in which contact with Africans and Africa would be limited if it even existed. With the exception of those from the most northerly parts of Africa, Africans would have been a completely unheard of uncontacted unit which the vast majority of Europeans would not know even existed. It was not until the Portuguese set up trading posts in Africa that a greater level of contact would have been initated between Europeans and Africans in the Medieval period.

yet, despite this lack of contact, the idea of darnkess being a thing to fear (I suspect it is a reflection on the cycles of the sun, daytime being bright and warm, night being cold and dark). To take example the Black Knight of Arthurian legend encapsulates the anti-hero of Chivalric culture. The typical enemy, the knight to be feared or faced, the knight who lacks many of the features of chivalric behaviour (Largesse, Justice, Faith, etc), but still retaining the other features (Prowess, nobility, etc).

Yet the Black knight, is not a knight with black skin, but a white man in black armour.

This trend of black being bad and good being white trancends a simple racial context.
Generally I agree with what you are saying, but the question is whether or not the children viewed the doll as an anthroporphized symbol of themselves, or simply an inanimate object where ethnic judgements did not apply because they lacked the necessary symbology. If it is the second, than I think the cultural bias you are speaking of would have far more influence on the study, but if the first, it could be far more damning.

But again, the experiment seems slightly rigged to begin with. The questions are given with the assumption that one child can be preferred over the other. This was true today just as it was when it was given 50 years ago. If the child was asked to pick a doll to "play house" with, and children tended to opt for the white one, I would be more convinced.

[Boriznov]

I think this just comes from because they grow up with white kids, in there school are white kids everywhere. If this question was asked in Africa itself where there is a place with mostly black kids, they would choose the black doll.

[Raúl Duke]

For example, the bride in a wedding typically wears a white dress, at a funeral people wear black. To take a further example, in mythology the grim-reaper is always depicted with a pitch black cloak and cape, an angel on the other hand white robes and bright white light.


I think this just comes from because they grow up with white kids, in there school are white kids everywhere. If this question was asked in Africa itself where there is a place with mostly black kids, they would choose the black doll.

I believe these color preferences are based on cultural aspects (like wingsomega is alluding to).
For example in Japan white I think is the color of death.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Invader [email protected] 26, 2007 08:49 am

Think about how many children's stories have black people that are nice.

Black people, or people represented with darkness? Consider that.


It's like that in almost every fairytale and children story.

Ah, but most of these Northen European mythologies and legends on which children's storys are based develop from a period in which contact with Africans and Africa would be limited if it even existed. With the exception of those from the most northerly parts of Africa, Africans would have been a completely unheard of uncontacted unit which the vast majority of Europeans would not know even existed. It was not until the Portuguese set up trading posts in Africa that a greater level of contact would have been initated between Europeans and Africans in the Medieval period.

yet, despite this lack of contact, the idea of darnkess being a thing to fear (I suspect it is a reflection on the cycles of the sun, daytime being bright and warm, night being cold and dark). To take example the Black Knight of Arthurian legend encapsulates the anti-hero of Chivalric culture. The typical enemy, the knight to be feared or faced, the knight who lacks many of the features of chivalric behaviour (Largesse, Justice, Faith, etc), but still retaining the other features (Prowess, nobility, etc).

Yet the Black knight, is not a knight with black skin, but a white man in black armour.

This trend of black being bad and good being white trancends a simple racial context.
See it is interesting because in Diablo 2 the Paladin is a Black man.

Check out this comment in youtube.


This is so sad, because black women are so beautiful and exotic. It's so ironic, because MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people want to look like us. People go tanning and risk developing all types of different skin cancers so that they can have darker skin. People inject collagen into their lips so that they can have full lips. People get butt implants and breast implants so they can have curvy figures like a lot of ethnic women have naturally.

Even when some people try not to be racist, they still fuck up.

[Invader Zim]

See it is interesting because in Diablo 2 the Paladin is a Black man.

Perhaps, but Diablo 2 is a modern game, reflecting modern attitudes and social dynamics, while being set in a fantacy world mirrored upon many modern ideals of medieval society. You will not find any references to a black knight, as in a knight of say African ethnicity, in Eschenbach's Parzival or say Chretien De Troyes romances.

I am afraid to say, that Chivalry and medieval fictional/mythical literature and their impact and reflections upon medieval society is what I am actually writing my dissertation on, so i have actually forced my self to read these works, lol.