Signing Your Class Away ?

[Coggeh]

I hear alot of rumours but is it true that if you join the army or even the reserve army your not allowed to be involved with any political organisation ?

[Question everything]

I heard that in america you can't criticize your commanders, but I don't know about not being able to participate in a political party. But either way joining the army is going into the service of the capitalists, and signing your class away...

[Dante666]

Personally I would rather starve then fight in a meaningless cause like Iraq but ya I think thats just during service so there are no mutiny's.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 12:08 am
I hear alot of rumours but is it true that if you join the army or even the reserve army your not allowed to be involved with any political organisation ?
As far as I know, those rumors are correct. And if you're thinking, even if it's a one in a billion chance, of joining the military, DON'T

[SPK]

Here is one link which describes some of the legal restrictions on political activity by members of the amerikan armed forces: Rights Under the Law (http://appealforredress.org/php/legal.php).

Any law, though, can become a mere formality, if enough people organize and resist. There are an increasing number of enlistees in the amerikan military that are ignoring these restrictions and speaking out against the war in Iraq. The Appeal for Redress – which calls for a withdrawal from Iraq and is more on the BS liberal / patriotic side -- has over a thousand signatories at this point. Groups like Iraq Veterans Against the War, which includes active soldiers are growing, and more people, like Lieutenant Ehren Watada, are refusing to serve and being prosecuted by the Pentagon for it.

At least 8,000 people have deserted from the military, since the invasion of Iraq. Obviously, the brass haven’t chased them all down and tried to put them all trial – that would be impossible. Basically, the folx who are loud and put forth a public, political stance on their opposition are far more likely to have legal action taken against them, as the Watada case indicates. Further building of resistance in the armed forces, and supporting campaigns in defense of these soldiers, will make this more difficult.

The amerikan military during the latter phase of the Vietnam War saw tremendous opposition from enlistees. In many areas, the officers and brass had essentially lost control, and this can – and will, if the current trajectory does not change – happen again. The laws against political activity would be meaningless and unenforceable in that context. :)

[ahab]

you can vote but you cant go to demostrations, protests or any of the sort, you give up a lot of civilian freedom when you join u and if you get busted your tried in seperate courts

[Tower of Bebel]

I'm a reservist and even I can be tried at the court of the military. What you said about politcal parties can be true. I know even Hitler was thrown out of the army when his officers found out he joined the NSDAP. It's possible that armies still hold to these principles.

[lithium]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 12:08 am
I hear alot of rumours but is it true that if you join the army or even the reserve army your not allowed to be involved with any political organisation ?
That's true for the Irish Army and reserves. I'm not sure about other armies.

[Question everything]

I'm a Canadian so Iknow I probably should be complaining about americain problems as if they were my own... but all I ever hear on CNN (don't worry I don't take anything they are saying seriously I just get stuck watching it sometimes) about soldiers protesting war, "is if they should have the right to be defiant to their commanders like that"... those who "protect freedom around the world" in a nation that appearently values free-speech as one of it's greats institutions, aren't given access to that institution... It is hard for me even looking back at all the hypocritical things the U.S. has done in the past to imagine this.

[freakazoid]

When I was choosing between joining the Air Force or joining the Navy one of the questions on a paper that you fill out is if you have been in any group thats goal is to violently over-throw the US government, that question made me smile. :D

[ahab]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 02:58 am
When I was choosing between joining the Air Force or joining the Navy one of the questions on a paper that you fill out is if you have been in any group thats goal is to violently over-throw the US government, that question made me smile. :D
hahaha I remember that and then they put you through that interrogation thing and ask you if you've ever commited any act of terrorism against police or the government

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 12:08 am
I hear alot of rumours but is it true that if you join the army or even the reserve army your not allowed to be involved with any political organisation ?
In Brazil, at least, that's only for people on active service. Once you retire, you can join any political organisation you want.

"Not being allowed" doesn't mean you can't do it; you just have to be discrete.

Then, on the other hand, joining the army of a country that is actually on war (and that seems likely to not come to peace in a predictable future) means that you will be quite probably required to kill people on a regular basis, and to put your own life in harms way in a continual way. So, the ability to join a political organisation seems to me a minor concern.

Luís Henrique

[Janus]

Yeah, the US is pretty tough on this kind of stuff but with the troop shortfall recently, you can probably escape attention if you're careful.

[pandora]

PLEASE SEE VIETNAM Veteran's Against the WAR: http://www.vvaw.org/

There is a huge history on soldier protests over Vietnam, and those were drafted. Do not think just because huge segments of the population are encouraged into the army that you have the right to protest.

The area of chief concern was the African American troops who would not return to the US to fire on their own populations during the Chicago riots.

As a result, prior to the Democratic National Convention, the military brass told African American troops they would meet them to discuss their concerns about firing on their own people, and they should meet in a parking lot.

All that attended were horribly beaten by MP's who came and surrounded the men, and all the troops were arrested.

Get real! Who the fuck you think you're fighting for.
These men had a real concern that their people back home were now the enemy, and Uncle Sam and the military brass recognized that concern as truth and assaulted them for not firing on their own people.

Look at the wars in Central America, where Indigenous boys are pushed into the military, and dehumanized for their native blood until they hate their own skin and then thrown like flaming torches, back onto their own communities.

Wake up!

As far as protesting with your medals on, that is to reduce belief that troops are against the war and lower your visibility. Observe the Vietnam Vet below and his effectiveness to change your mind versus the other vets below if you were a conservative.

[pandora]

His clean cut good looks appeal to Mid-Western values deeply.
There are now many laws to prevent such protest again.

I like the sign :D

[Janus]

US troops plan to attend protests (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070126/ap_on_go_ot/iraq_protest;_ylt=AuV1oHxwckcQEHLyTMQP2CyyFz4D;_yl u=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-)


Cynthia O. Smith, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said members of the Armed Forces can speak out, subject to several restrictions.

They must "not do so in uniform, and must make clear that they do not speak on behalf of their military unit, service or the Department of Defense, unless they are authorized to do so," she said.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23, 2007 01:39 am
Here is one link which describes some of the legal restrictions on political activity by members of the amerikan armed forces: Rights Under the Law (http://appealforredress.org/php/legal.php).

Any law, though, can become a mere formality, if enough people organize and resist.
Absolutely. Also, the military's regulations are not higher than the constitution. Of course, it's necessary to fight to enforce that.

I guess the original poster is in Ireland, where there may be some such rule. I notice the U.S. military's regulations, which you linked, don't even try to prohibit that:


A member on active duty may:
E3.2.1. Register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces.
....
E3.2.3. Join a political club and attend its meetings when not in uniform. See Directive 1334.1 (reference (f)).
E3.2.9. Attend partisan and nonpartisan political meetings or rallies as a spectator when not in uniform.

Probably they had to loosen that up some in response to the movement against the Vietnam War.

On the other hand, they try to prohibit:

E3.3.3. Participate in partisan political management, campaigns, or conventions (except as a spectator when not in uniform), or make public speeches in the course thereof.

But I think they'd have a hard time court-martialing anyone for speaking at an antiwar rally. AFAIK they've never successfully done so, and haven't tried for a long time.

I notice they try to phrase those regulations in order to try to make 'em sound justified by keeping the military neutral in electoral politics and keeping anyone from seeming to imply the military as an institution endorses a cause.

Neither of those is relevant to the kind of politics we're most concerned with....