Feudalism or capitalism? - which is better

[Kez]

If we have no option for socialism, and had to choose between feudalism and capitalism, then capitalism would be the one to choose wouldnt it, because then you can advance into communism
capitalism is needed for communism to topple it
what do u think?

comrade kamo

[Moskitto]

I'd choose capitalism.

Under Fuedelism you can be whipped if you have things which your class isn't allowed to have.

[peaccenicked]

I suggest you get a copy of Engel's "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State". It is a difficult read first time, I used to do classes in it ,so I have read it more than once. If you have difficulties with it , don't hesitate to message or e mail me or even if you think it is approppiate pose it as a question for this site to answer.
To give a brief answer, you are basically correct, but you pose the qustion in a ahistorical manner. One of the most basic ways of seeing a process is that it has a beginning, a middle and an end. For Marx and Engels
who worked in close collaboration on this topic especially. The beginning is primitive communism (A category I have defended on my website in an essay,
'Is Marxism a Science? 'against attacks from modern social science), then Feudalism, then capitalism and
then socialism. This is not mechanical, it is a loose description of general development. The basic process
of world history is the movement away from personal
dependency on tribe and state. The serf was very dependent on his lord. The arrival of the proletariat on the world stage was for Marx the arrival of the first universal class capable of taking all of humanity on board to create genuinely independent, and truly free men and women not shackled by the oppression of poverty or the needs of State control. A mode of life
by which 'the free development of each is the condition
for the free development of all'.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 5:46 pm on Jan. 6, 2002)

[Jurhael]

Capitalism definatly. In feudalism, you had NO chance to get out of the class you were born into(god help you if you were born into the lower classes). In Capitalism at least people HAVE somewhat of a chance to get away from what they were born with.

[El Che]

Peacenicken, i might taken you up on that offer if have to much trouble with Das Kapital. I am currently reading the Frist chapter over again and this time im taking notes.... If i have any questions i might drop you a line.

[Dreadnaht1]

But many forms of capitalism can also resemble feudalism. And certain types of feudalism can be capitalistic. For example, American Capitalism resembles feudalism in that each corporation is independant. It owns it's own land, owns it's own people who live on the land and these corporations can generate cash flow through a main-stream market. This of course leaves room for a large class gap. And, at many times, it's very simplistic in it's methods. It seems almost insanely feudalistic.

-Dread

[Incognito]

If you choices are feudalism and capitalism, you must choose capitalism. Feudalism is the next step above slavery, and feudalism will eventually evolve into capitalism with the introduction if an industrial revolution. Capitalism is evil, but it is the better of two evils, and the next step from capitalism is socialism, and then pure communism. If you choose feudalism then capitalism will be between you and socialism. So capitalism is the coice to make

[Dreadnaht1]

I feel in this world with only capitalism and feudalism my true choice would involve some bullets.

-Dread

(Edited by Dreadnaht1 at 7:26 pm on Jan. 18, 2002)

[GenosseM]

I think u only know Marx's and Lenin's view of System-evolution:

Slavery-Feudalism-Capitalism-Socialism-Communism

But u don't know any other views and u also don't think about! I think u all tried to justify your own Scare of breakin out of the capitalistic system!
U're not brave enough!

You have to read "Hagakure - The way of Samurai" the you may be able to choose between Cap.-Feud.!!!

I would choose Feudalism, because it is better to sacrifice your life for your Lord than beeing only Consumer!

[Moskitto]

I thought it went Tribal Communes-Slavery-Fuedelism-Capitalism-Socialism-Communism

[peaccenicked]

The point that gets into this controversy is that of
is called "unilinear evolutionism". This contends that history evolves in a straight line and societies all go through the same stages of development. Many of the arguments about the russian revolution were about could stages of development be skipped. Others have also pointed to the asiatic mode of production which is a centralised caste system. This model of evolution is now
is used by modern anthropology to discredit marx's thought.
For Morgan who founded anthropology and who Marx and Engels base their own evolutionary theory. It is nearly uniform. There is all sorts of theories now cyclic and multilinear evolution.
But I think Marx in the 'Grundisse' shows a richer analyses which connects societies developments organically with note of the remnanants of old societies in the new. For instance the jury system and
its means of selection ie lottery has its roots in ancient greece. The transition between societies is more dynamic than the linear theory. History is knowledge,
it moves like a spiral sometimes dipping into barbaric chaos but moving on to higher levels of previous social relations.

[GenosseM]

Doesn't matter!

Read HAGAKURE!!!

THINK & UNLEARN & RESIST

[peaccenicked]

unlearning also means learning something else

[Fires of History]

Doesn't matter: under both systems you are bound to a lord or employer who in turn in responsible for providing you with what you need to survive.

Both suck ass and both serve the elite.

**ck em both.

Power to the People,
Trance