Armenian Journalist Murdered in Istanbul

[Leo]

Hrant Dink, the editor of an İstanbul Armenian language newspaper was shot dead today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6279241.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink

There were demonstrations today in Istanbul and Ankara today, protesters clashed with the police in Ankara. There will be a bigger demonstration in Ankara tomorrow.

[powertothepeople]

the killer has been found and juctice will be served

[Comrade_Scott]

dude im amazed they (the public) did not beat him (the killer) shitless the way they went on yesterday i thought that they would put on a civillian manhunt for him and lynch him. Anyway hopefully justice will be served and the killer will pay for killing a man who preached reconciliation and not the usual blame game.

[Janus]

I think that this assassination shows the kind of intolerance that exists in Turkey surrounding the ethnic tensions. Hopefully, this incident will help to unite more people and provide greater tolerance in Turkey.

[Leo]

The killer is a 17 year old middle school gratitude from a city far from Istanbul. It is highly suspicious how this boy from a small city in northeastern Turkey managed to find a gun, go to Istanbul which is a huge city, find where Hrant Dink worked and kill him. It&#39;s some justice being served <_<

[cumbia]

I live in Istanbul, The journalist lived in the same working class neighborhood as my friends. He told me the pigs has the place surrounded right when he was killed.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

He told me the pigs has the place surrounded right when he was killed.

He... Is "he" your friends, or the journalist?

[Devrim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 01:52 am
dude im amazed they (the public) did not beat him (the killer) shitless the way they went on yesterday i thought that they would put on a civillian manhunt for him and lynch him. Anyway hopefully justice will be served and the killer will pay for killing a man who preached reconciliation and not the usual blame game.
I am surprised that the public didn&#39;t carry him around Taksim on their shoulders cheering him. Do you have any idea what you are talking about here? To a certain extent despite the outrage on the left, this is a popular murder. Most &#39;decent&#39; people although they would have been quite shocked by the idea of shooting someone down on the street, would have considered the man a traitor.

Devrim

[Mikhail Frunze]

The Kemalist ideology is fascist, chauvinist, and reactionary. While the Kemalists deserve praise for resisting a partition by the Entente in post-WWI and for subsequently removing the barbaric religious customs from government and public life, there has still been persecution of Kurds and even denial of their identity. The Kemalist regime regularly white washes the crimes of the feudal Ottoman monarchy particularly the genocide against the Armenians. This is rather bewildering because the Kemalists and Ottomans were adversaries following the first world war.

This murder is not especially surprising considering the persecution minorities in Turkey have faced in the past. In 1955, a pogrom in Istanbul was unleashed against Greeks. Fascist thugs murdered Greeks and raped Greek women. Thousands of Greek controlled schools, pharmacies, businesses and churches were damaged.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 09:23 pm
the killer has been found and juctice will be served
You do realize that the Turkish state had previously attacked Dink&#39;s reputation and credibility for his heavy criticism of the Ottoman&#39;s role in the Armenian genocide
Justice can never be served under capitalism, let alone under such a nationalist and reactionary government as the Turkish one

Sad really


To a certain extent despite the outrage on the left, this is a popular murder. Most &#39;decent&#39; people although they would have been quite shocked by the idea of shooting someone down on the street, would have considered the man a traitor.


Popular where?
And what exactly do u mean or refer to when u say "most decent ppl?"
You sound like an apologist for these ultranationalist fucks

[Resistencia]

I heard this news yesterday from a MSN contact from Istanbul. He also told me that nationalists in Turkey are far more dangerous than nazis&#33;

It quite sad to hear alternate voices are slowly being silenced. :(

[Devrim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 02:37 am

To a certain extent despite the outrage on the left, this is a popular murder. Most &#39;decent&#39; people although they would have been quite shocked by the idea of shooting someone down on the street, would have considered the man a traitor.


Popular where?
And what exactly do u mean or refer to when u say "most decent ppl?"
You sound like an apologist for these ultranationalist fucks
I don&#39;t think that pointing out what the situation actually is is an apology for the ultranationalists. When I said popular murder, I meant of course in Turkey. I think if you compare the size of the demonstrations in Ankara against this murder (hundreds), and the murder of a Judge by Islamicists last year (tens of thousands), you get a very basic idea of the public reaction to this event. I don&#39;t think that it is helpful in any way to lie to ourselves about what the situation really is. The fact is that the majority of the population in Turkey are deeply nationalistic. That is where we must start from.

Leaflet produced by Turkish internationalists on the shooting: http://eks.internationalist-forum.org/tr/node/33

Devrim

[Devrim]

While the Kemalists deserve praise for resisting a partition by the Entente in post-WWI and for subsequently removing the barbaric religious customs from government and public life, there has still been persecution of Kurds and even denial of their identity.

Can others see the contradictions that this point raises?

Devrim

[Tekun]

Originally posted by devrimankara+January 22, 2007 08:55 am--> (devrimankara @ January 22, 2007 08:55 am)
[email protected] 22, 2007 02:37 am

To a certain extent despite the outrage on the left, this is a popular murder. Most &#39;decent&#39; people although they would have been quite shocked by the idea of shooting someone down on the street, would have considered the man a traitor.


Popular where?
And what exactly do u mean or refer to when u say "most decent ppl?"
You sound like an apologist for these ultranationalist fucks
I don&#39;t think that pointing out what the situation actually is is an apology for the ultranationalists. When I said popular murder, I meant of course in Turkey. I think if you compare the size of the demonstrations in Ankara against this murder (hundreds), and the murder of a Judge by Islamicists last year (tens of thousands), you get a very basic idea of the public reaction to this event. I don&#39;t think that it is helpful in any way to lie to ourselves about what the situation really is. The fact is that the majority of the population in Turkey are deeply nationalistic. That is where we must start from.

Leaflet produced by Turkish internationalists on the shooting: http://eks.internationalist-forum.org/tr/node/33

Devrim [/b]
As long as u don&#39;t agree with it, its cool
I noticed you used very specific words, to describe the situation
And when u included words like "decent" and "popular" I got the impression that u somehow made yourself out to be part of those who saw this murder as a "popular" move on behalf of ultranationalists

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 19, 2007 09:27 pm
Hrant Dink, the editor of an İstanbul Armenian language newspaper was shot dead today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6279241.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink

There were demonstrations today in Istanbul and Ankara today, protesters clashed with the police in Ankara. There will be a bigger demonstration in Ankara tomorrow.
Leo, is the murderer affiliated to some right-wing organisation, or was he used by some such organisation, or was an isolated act of a fanatic?

Which organisation would have Hrant Dink murdered?

What is your opinion on Hrant Dink? Was he a leftist, a progressist? (devrim linked to a pamphlet, but I am completely unable to understand Turk.)

Luís Henrique

[Devrim]

As long as u don&#39;t agree with it, its cool
I noticed you used very specific words, to describe the situation
And when u included words like "decent" and "popular" I got the impression that u somehow made yourself out to be part of those who saw this murder as a "popular" move on behalf of ultranationalists
I used &#39;decent&#39; people in inverted commas to express what I see popular borgoise public opinion as.
I used &#39;popular&#39;, as I think there is a feeling that people like Dink are traitors. Remember that most Hitler, and Mussolini were popular too.


Leo, is the murderer affiliated to some right-wing organisation, or was he used by some such organisation, or was an isolated act of a fanatic?

I think that Leo is busy with some political stuff, and off the internet for a few days, so I will answer for him.

It is not clear about the killer yet. Here is a link to a Turkish newspaper (in English this time :blush: ) with the latest reports. I think he was probably connected to a nationalist gang. Certainly from the report he was given the gun, and told to shot him: http://www.thenewanatolian.com/tna-21663.html


Which organisation would have Hrant Dink murdered?

Maybe you are asking the wrong question here. Try "who wouldn&#39;t have murdered him?" On speaking to a friend immediatly afterwards, her reaction was "nationalists, the MHP (a far right nationalist/fascist party), the İsçi Partesi (an ex-Maoist party, which has become so nationalistic that they are co-operating with the fascists, and in my opinion are nearly indestinguishable from them). My reaction was "well, that just about covers everyone then".


What is your opinion on Hrant Dink? Was he a leftist, a progressist? (devrim linked to a pamphlet, but I am completely unable to understand Turk.)

He was shot for &#39;insulting Turkishness&#39;. Yes, he was a leftist, but he was shot because he said that the Turkish state murdered 1,500,000 Armenians in the first world war. The rest of his politics are incidental to that fact.





Devrim

[ComradeR]

He was shot for &#39;insulting Turkishness&#39;. Yes, he was a leftist, but he was shot because he said that the Turkish state murdered 1,500,000 Armenians in the first world war. The rest of his politics are incidental to that fact.
Yes that&#39;s true but i&#39;ll bet the fact that he was a leftist didn&#39;t exactly go over well with the fascists.

[Leo]

Sorry I haven&#39;t been able to write before, as Dev said I was very busy with some political stuff - in fact I didn&#39;t had time to turn on the computer.


Leo, is the murderer affiliated to some right-wing organisation, or was he used by some such organisation, or was an isolated act of a fanatic?

It turned out that the killer had connections to the paramilitary squad of a legal party called Grand Unity Party, a splinter fraction from the fascist Greywolves with an ideology that mixes ultra-nationalism and Islam. Over the years they got more and more isolated and radicalized, now they have probably became the most violent fascist group here.

[Janus]

Obviously this kid wasn&#39;t operating on his own. It looks like much of the operation was planned by others, more experienced folk.

Article (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5817478.asp?gid=74)

And it looks like these people have threatened some more Turkish writers.

[Leo]

Yes, to my knowledge they threatened Orhan Pamuk... I know that they were also involved with the murder of a priest in Trabzon.