Money

[colorlessman]

What makes money valuable?

What creates value?

What does money produce?

Where does money come from?

Who creates and owns money?

Who controls the supply of money?

Is money more valuable than labour?

Labour for money, is this a fair exchange?

Why does money exist?

Does a money monopoly exist?

How do you get money?

How do you make money if you don't have money?

What are some alternatives to money?

What creates wealth? Labour or money? If I own a lot of money then I can buy the labour of others to produce wealth for me. However, if I do not own money than I have to sell my own labour in-order to make money and maybe one day I will have enough to not sell my labour and join the buying class that buys labour. Now, what I don't understand is where did the buying class or banking class get
their money? Where they once workers who just made their way up to the top of the money ladder?

A lot of questions but just trying to learn.

[MrDoom]

I reccomend this: Technocratic analysis of money (http://www.technocracy.ca/simp/money-money-money.htm)

[redcannon]

this is a very good series of questions. Why does money exist is my favourite. So far as I know, human beings are the only species to use money. There are 55 million other species on this earth that do just fine without it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 11:30 pm
How do you get money?

How do you make money if you don't have money?


stupids questions with a plain answer: Work, get a job! ;)

[redcannon]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 19, 2007 10:49 am--> (knight of cydonia @ January 19, 2007 10:49 am)
[email protected] 19, 2007 11:30 pm
How do you get money?

How do you make money if you don't have money?


stupids questions with a plain answer: Work, get a job! ;) [/b]
so we can become wage slaves? isn't that a bit counter-what we're trying to do?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 01:53 am
so we can become wage slaves? isn't that a bit counter-what we're trying to do?
then how do you think we can get money? <_<
we working and in the same time try not to be a slave, therefore a workers organization and therefore workers action ;)

[redcannon]

i think that he was talking about making money in a much broader sense. How is money created?

[Lamanov]

In short:

What makes money valuable? - Its exchange value. Since money is just a universal commodity, all the money covers for all the commodities.

What creates value? - Only labor creates value, while nature itself can be a source of "done" use-values.

What does money produce? - Money produces nothing. It is "produced" to simplify exchange of commodities.

Where does money come from? - Its paper form rests on gols and precious metals historically determined to play the role of equivalent values, the values acording to which all other are measured, acording to the need of measuring certain exchange value.

Who creates and owns money? - State creates it. Everyone owns it in accordance with their share in the commodity world.

Who controls the supply of money? - State.

Is money more valuable than labour? - Only use-value money has is the exchange value it posseses. Labor&#39;s use value is its ability to create values in general.

Labour for money, is this a fair exchange? - Labor is a commodity and money is commodity. When you sell your labor you are reproducing yourself as a commodity, and money serves for that reprodution. It is always enough to ensure that reprodution, but nothing more.

Why does money exist? - Again, to simplify exchange of commodities.

How do you make money if you don&#39;t have money? - You don&#39;t. You only get money for your sold labor so you could sell it again.

What are some alternatives to money? - The end of commodity production. Conscious prodution for direct satisfaction of needs.

What creates wealth? Labour or money? - Labor and nature.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 02:03 am
i think that he was talking about making money in a much broader sense. How is money created?
so much i know,according to history: money is created to replaced the barter method.and so people make money to make the process of trading so much easier. ;)

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 19, 2007 06:55 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 19, 2007 06:55 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 01:53 am
so we can become wage slaves? isn&#39;t that a bit counter-what we&#39;re trying to do?
then how do you think we can get money? <_<
we working and in the same time try not to be a slave, therefore a workers organization and therefore workers action ;) [/b]
You can&#39;t work in capitalist society and not be a slave.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 02:12 am
You can&#39;t work in capitalist society and not be a slave.
oh yeah?....so that&#39;s why i said to join some workers organization to fight the slavery and in the same time we work to get the money for funding the worker organization, and that money came from capitalist and now we made the money against capitalist ;)

[MrDoom]

Especially today, money is largely an abstract and is created out of nothing.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 06:26 pm
this is a very good series of questions. Why does money exist is my favourite. So far as I know, human beings are the only species to use money. There are 55 million other species on this earth that do just fine without it.
We should do fine too without money, however money exists to give a certain few privilege to exploit the labour of others. This few will do everything in thier power to protect this privilege. Humans need to be self-relient and suffient to be like those other species. Every time one of us sells his labour it empowers those few to get wealthier and more powerful of our collective labour.

Capitalism cannot exist without money. Anyone disagree?

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 06:55 pm
then how do you think we can get money?

Why do we need money?

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 19, 2007 07:17 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 19, 2007 07:17 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 02:12 am
You can&#39;t work in capitalist society and not be a slave.
oh yeah?....so that&#39;s why i said to join some workers organization to fight the slavery and in the same time we work to get the money for funding the worker organization, and that money came from capitalist and now we made the money against capitalist ;) [/b]
But you are still a slave to the capitalist system because you have no other choice but to work. Just because you join a workers&#39; organisation and fund it doesn&#39;t mean you are any less a slave, it means you&#39;re a conscious slave.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 04:33 am
But you are still a slave to the capitalist system because you have no other choice but to work. Just because you join a workers&#39; organisation and fund it doesn&#39;t mean you are any less a slave, it means you&#39;re a conscious slave.
Maybe you&#39;re right, but i refer to call us an enemy in disguise for the capitalist :P

we work for them, we be a slave temporaly, and than we bring &#39;em down. i think the good way to fight our enemy, first we have to be friend with our enemy. and then ..... bang&#33;&#33;

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by DJ&#045;[email protected] 19, 2007 07:06 pm
In short:

What makes money valuable? - Its exchange value. Since money is just a universal commodity, all the money covers for all the commodities.

What creates value? - Only labor creates value, while nature itself can be a source of "done" use-values.

What does money produce? - Money produces nothing. It is "produced" to simplify exchange of commodities.

Where does money come from? - Its paper form rests on gols and precious metals historically determined to play the role of equivalent values, the values acording to which all other are measured, acording to the need of measuring certain exchange value.

Who creates and owns money? - State creates it. Everyone owns it in accordance with their share in the commodity world.

Who controls the supply of money? - State.

Is money more valuable than labour? - Only use-value money has is the exchange value it posseses. Labor&#39;s use value is its ability to create values in general.

Labour for money, is this a fair exchange? - Labor is a commodity and money is commodity. When you sell your labor you are reproducing yourself as a commodity, and money serves for that reprodution. It is always enough to ensure that reprodution, but nothing more.

Why does money exist? - Again, to simplify exchange of commodities.

How do you make money if you don&#39;t have money? - You don&#39;t. You only get money for your sold labor so you could sell it again.

What are some alternatives to money? - The end of commodity production. Conscious prodution for direct satisfaction of needs.

What creates wealth? Labour or money? - Labor and nature.
Interesting, and leads to more questions.

Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values? Shouldn&#39;t all labours be wealthy?

Who owns and control the state? Whoever does controls all.
How does the state increase and decrease the money supply?
How is new money created?
How does money increase and decrease in value?

If we divided all the money in circulation in America by population, each American would have 30,000 thousand dollars. Those who own more dollars control the lives of those with less. All in all money is slavery to those who do not have it and power for those that have it.

You can exchange money for everything and labour for money but not wealth. My ability to labour does not entitle me to land.

Money buys wealth
Labour buys useless money, which is exchanged for goods and services created by labours themsevles, so in result they are selling and buying thier own values (labour power) without notiching. They gain nothing and lose their labour and time. The money masters profit from this exchange and our need for money.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by Makaveli+January 19, 2007 09:33 pm--> (Makaveli @ January 19, 2007 09:33 pm)
Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 07:17 pm

[email protected] 20, 2007 02:12 am
You can&#39;t work in capitalist society and not be a slave.
oh yeah?....so that&#39;s why i said to join some workers organization to fight the slavery and in the same time we work to get the money for funding the worker organization, and that money came from capitalist and now we made the money against capitalist ;)
But you are still a slave to the capitalist system because you have no other choice but to work. Just because you join a workers&#39; organisation and fund it doesn&#39;t mean you are any less a slave, it means you&#39;re a conscious slave. [/b]
"conscious slave".
:lol:

[colorlessman]

Whatever, labours gain can be bought and small business if they become to successful can also be forced to sell. Artificial market control.

Masters the exploiters, and slaves the exploited.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 05:41 am
"conscious slave".
:lol:
who&#39;s you&#39;re laughing at????? <_<

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 19, 2007 10:53 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 19, 2007 10:53 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 05:41 am
"conscious slave".
:lol:
who&#39;s you&#39;re laughing at????? <_< [/b]
no one, just found "conscious slave" to be funny because most of us on here are and most of us are obedient ones too. Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 06:02 am
Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power.
Maybe it&#39;s right... :)

but don&#39;t forget that in the same time, we are increasing the power of oppressed worker that hate so much with the capitalist system and the slavery.and like i said before,when the time&#39;s right...then let us bring the system down ;)

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 19, 2007 11:07 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 19, 2007 11:07 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 06:02 am
Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power.
Maybe it&#39;s right... :)

but don&#39;t forget that in the same time, we are increasing the power of oppressed worker that hate so much with the capitalist system and the slavery.and like i said before,when the time&#39;s right...then let us bring the system down ;) [/b]
Not really, the oppressed workers need to drop out and form their own many small communities and invest their labour and time there instead of selling their precious labour.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 06:16 am
Not really, the oppressed workers need to drop out and form their own many small communities and invest their labour and time there instead of selling their precious labour.
don&#39;t have to :)
usually,and fortunately the oppressed worker can work their rebellion from the inside, that&#39;s why i mention the enemy in disguise.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by colorlessman+January 19, 2007 11:02 pm--> (colorlessman @ January 19, 2007 11:02 pm)
Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 10:53 pm

[email protected] 20, 2007 05:41 am
"conscious slave".
:lol:
who&#39;s you&#39;re laughing at????? <_<
no one, just found "conscious slave" to be funny because most of us on here are and most of us are obedient ones too. Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power. [/b]
We have no other choice but to sell our labour in order to survive in a capitalist system. Please don&#39;t be so patronising of the working-class.


Not really, the oppressed workers need to drop out and form their own many small communities and invest their labour and time there instead of selling their precious labour.

No, what we need is revolution, not formation of hippy communes.

[ComradeRed]

Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values?

Because the value of labor is equal to the value of the commodities necessary to reproduce labor, not the value created by the labor. This is elementary Marxist economics.

Shouldn&#39;t all labours be wealthy?

No, because they are exploited and the surplus value, that is the difference between the value created by the labor and the value of the labor, goes to the bourgeoisie.

Who owns and control the state? Whoever does controls all.

The bourgeoisie controls the state; it&#39;s the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie after all.

How does the state increase and decrease the money supply?

Well, the money supply is divisible into several scopes:


Originally posted by Wikipedia
* M0: The total of all physical currency, plus accounts at the central bank which can be exchanged for physical currency.
* M1: M0 + the amount in demand accounts ("checking" or "current" accounts).
* M2: M1 + most savings accounts, money market accounts, and certificate of deposit accounts (CDs) of under &#036;100,000.
* M3: M2 + all other CDs, deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements.
So which money supply are you referring to?

How does money increase and decrease in value?

See Marx&#39;s Das Kapital (http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/YPDBooks/Marx/mrxCpA3.html).

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 10:39 pm
Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values? Shouldn&#39;t all labours be wealthy?
Who said it is the cheapest commodity?


How does the state increase and decrease the money supply?

By minting, by ruling how much credit the banks can concede, by borrowing money, by fixing the interest rate.


How is new money created?

It is minted/printed.


How does money increase and decrease in value?

Money does not increase and decrease in value, it varies its exchange rate to other commodities. As any other commodity, it is more expensive when it is rare, cheaper when common. So prices (of other commodities, expressed in money) rise when the State mints more money than new commodities are created in production, and fall when the opposite is true.


If we divided all the money in circulation in America by population, each American would have 30,000 thousand dollars. Those who own more dollars control the lives of those with less.

This is nonsense.

The guy who owns &#036;30,000.01 does not control the life of the guy who owns &#036;29,999.99.


All in all money is slavery to those who do not have it and power for those that have it.

No, that is not true. Money is only one of the forms social wealth takes during the process of its production/reproduction. When I earn my wage, I have no more power than when I have already spent it (otherwise class struggle would have a monthly cycle, with the workers stronger in the beggining of the month, and the bourgeoisie stronger in its last days.


You can exchange money for everything and labour for money but not wealth.

That&#39;s only because money is the universal equivalent; its function is to be exchangeable. It makes no difference at all: you can only exchange labour for money, but the money you earn in exchange for labour can be exchanged for any commodity.


Labour buys useless money,

Money isn&#39;t useless, its use is as a means of exchange.


which is exchanged for goods and services created by labours themsevles,

In the big picture, yes, but if I am a baker, I do not create shoes, I create bread - more bread than I can eat; if I am a shoemaker, I do not create bread, I create shoes - more shoes than I can wear.

Luís Henrique

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by Makaveli+January 20, 2007 12:04 am--> (Makaveli @ January 20, 2007 12:04 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 11:02 pm

Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 10:53 pm

[email protected] 20, 2007 05:41 am
"conscious slave".
:lol:
who&#39;s you&#39;re laughing at????? <_<
no one, just found "conscious slave" to be funny because most of us on here are and most of us are obedient ones too. Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power.
We have no other choice but to sell our labour in order to survive in a capitalist system. Please don&#39;t be so patronising of the working-class.


Not really, the oppressed workers need to drop out and form their own many small communities and invest their labour and time there instead of selling their precious labour.

No, what we need is revolution, not formation of hippy communes. [/b]
Those hippy communes are a great way to challenge the system because it shows people they don&#39;t have to sell their labour in order to live and survive.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by ComradeRed+January 20, 2007 12:23 am--> (ComradeRed @ January 20, 2007 12:23 am) Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values?

Because the value of labor is equal to the value of the commodities necessary to reproduce labor, not the value created by the labor. This is elementary Marxist economics.

Shouldn&#39;t all labours be wealthy?

No, because they are exploited and the surplus value, that is the difference between the value created by the labor and the value of the labor, goes to the bourgeoisie.

Who owns and control the state? Whoever does controls all.

The bourgeoisie controls the state; it&#39;s the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie after all.

How does the state increase and decrease the money supply?

Well, the money supply is divisible into several scopes:


Wikipedia
* M0: The total of all physical currency, plus accounts at the central bank which can be exchanged for physical currency.
* M1: M0 + the amount in demand accounts ("checking" or "current" accounts).
* M2: M1 + most savings accounts, money market accounts, and certificate of deposit accounts (CDs) of under &#036;100,000.
* M3: M2 + all other CDs, deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements.
So which money supply are you referring to?

How does money increase and decrease in value?

See Marx&#39;s Das Kapital (http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/YPDBooks/Marx/mrxCpA3.html). [/b]
What are some good Marxist economic books or websites to read?

By money supply, I meant how does the state increase and decrease the money in circulation.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+January 20, 2007 12:39 am--> (Luís Henrique @ January 20, 2007 12:39 am)
[email protected] 19, 2007 10:39 pm
Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values? Shouldn&#39;t all labours be wealthy?
Who said it is the cheapest commodity?


How does the state increase and decrease the money supply?

By minting, by ruling how much credit the banks can concede, by borrowing money, by fixing the interest rate.


How is new money created?

It is minted/printed.


How does money increase and decrease in value?

Money does not increase and decrease in value, it varies its exchange rate to other commodities. As any other commodity, it is more expensive when it is rare, cheaper when common. So prices (of other commodities, expressed in money) rise when the State mints more money than new commodities are created in production, and fall when the opposite is true.


If we divided all the money in circulation in America by population, each American would have 30,000 thousand dollars. Those who own more dollars control the lives of those with less.

This is nonsense.

The guy who owns &#036;30,000.01 does not control the life of the guy who owns &#036;29,999.99.


All in all money is slavery to those who do not have it and power for those that have it.

No, that is not true. Money is only one of the forms social wealth takes during the process of its production/reproduction. When I earn my wage, I have no more power than when I have already spent it (otherwise class struggle would have a monthly cycle, with the workers stronger in the beggining of the month, and the bourgeoisie stronger in its last days.


You can exchange money for everything and labour for money but not wealth.

That&#39;s only because money is the universal equivalent; its function is to be exchangeable. It makes no difference at all: you can only exchange labour for money, but the money you earn in exchange for labour can be exchanged for any commodity.


Labour buys useless money,

Money isn&#39;t useless, its use is as a means of exchange.


which is exchanged for goods and services created by labours themsevles,

In the big picture, yes, but if I am a baker, I do not create shoes, I create bread - more bread than I can eat; if I am a shoemaker, I do not create bread, I create shoes - more shoes than I can wear.

Luís Henrique [/b]
Well, obviously to create new money it needs to be minted and printed. The question was who decides when new money should be created and how.


&#036;30,000.01 does not control the life of the guy who owns &#036;29,999.99.

However, the guy with more would have more power and influence. Just like now the wealthy who have money have more control and influence over the state. They control everyone through the state.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 10:10 pm
Those hippy communes are a great way to challenge the system because it shows people they don&#39;t have to sell their labour in order to live and survive.
and did you have the proof that this hippy communes success in challenging the system?

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by colorlessman+January 20, 2007 03:10 pm--> (colorlessman @ January 20, 2007 03:10 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 12:04 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 11:02 pm

Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 19, 2007 10:53 pm

[email protected] 20, 2007 05:41 am
"conscious slave".
:lol:
who&#39;s you&#39;re laughing at????? <_<
no one, just found "conscious slave" to be funny because most of us on here are and most of us are obedient ones too. Every time we participate in the system we just increase it is power.
We have no other choice but to sell our labour in order to survive in a capitalist system. Please don&#39;t be so patronising of the working-class.


Not really, the oppressed workers need to drop out and form their own many small communities and invest their labour and time there instead of selling their precious labour.

No, what we need is revolution, not formation of hippy communes.
Those hippy communes are a great way to challenge the system because it shows people they don&#39;t have to sell their labour in order to live and survive. [/b]
We shouldn&#39;t have to retreat from society, we should be running society.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 20, 2007 05:32 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 20, 2007 05:32 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 10:10 pm
Those hippy communes are a great way to challenge the system because it shows people they don&#39;t have to sell their labour in order to live and survive.
and did you have the proof that this hippy communes success in challenging the system? [/b]
There are many hippy communes across the world, and most of them are very successful in living free, being self-reliant, self-independent and be self-sufficient. These communes have very little need for money to operate. They grow their own food, and produce most of their needs from the land.

[Janus]

There are many hippy communes across the world, and most of them are very successful in living free, being self-reliant, self-independent and be self-sufficient.
It doesn&#39;t prove that they&#39;re actually challenging the system only that they have withdrawn from it.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:32 pm
We shouldn&#39;t have to retreat from society, we should be running society.
I wouldn&#39;t call it retreat, it is just being smart. You can accomplish a lot from outside the system than within.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 09:05 pm

There are many hippy communes across the world, and most of them are very successful in living free, being self-reliant, self-independent and be self-sufficient.
It doesn&#39;t prove that they&#39;re actually challenging the system only that they have withdrawn from it.
It proves you can live without the system, if we all withdraw and live outside the system than society becomes us.

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by colorlessman+January 20, 2007 09:08 pm--> (colorlessman @ January 20, 2007 09:08 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 07:32 pm
We shouldn&#39;t have to retreat from society, we should be running society.
I wouldn&#39;t call it retreat, it is just being smart. You can accomplish a lot from outside the system than within. [/b]
What have the commune-hippies accomplished besides smoking incredulous amounts of reefer?


It proves you can live without the system, if we all withdraw and live outside the system than society becomes us.

Yes, the whole of society is going to voluntarily lower its living standard by lowering both consumption and production in some rural, deindustrialized commune. :rolleyes:

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by colorlessman+January 20, 2007 09:11 pm--> (colorlessman @ January 20, 2007 09:11 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 09:05 pm

There are many hippy communes across the world, and most of them are very successful in living free, being self-reliant, self-independent and be self-sufficient.
It doesn&#39;t prove that they&#39;re actually challenging the system only that they have withdrawn from it.
It proves you can live without the system, if we all withdraw and live outside the system than society becomes us. [/b]
And technology? What do said hippy communes do when they want technology?

[Janus]

if we all withdraw and live outside the system than society becomes us.
Communes are only going to appeal and will only be viable for certain people. Not everyone is going to withdraw themselves from society, in fact it&#39;s quite rare which explains the massive failures behind the commmunes in history.

[colorlessman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 09:39 pm

And technology? What do said hippy communes do when they want technology?
What kind of technology?

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by colorlessman+January 21, 2007 05:14 pm--> (colorlessman @ January 21, 2007 05:14 pm)
[email protected] 20, 2007 09:39 pm

And technology? What do said hippy communes do when they want technology?
What kind of technology? [/b]
Should it matter?

Given the choice of lowering their standard of living or not, people are going to choose not to.

[Dewolfemann]

Wow. There are some really good questions being asked although I would like to correct some things that have been said:


Where does money come from? - Its paper form rests on gols and precious metals historically determined to play the role of equivalent values, the values acording to which all other are measured, acording to the need of measuring certain exchange value.

Most countries do not base their currency on the gold standard anymore but rather base their currency on a reserve of a foreign currency.


Who creates and owns money? - State creates it. Everyone owns it in accordance with their share in the commodity world.

This used to be the case, however as a previous reply pointed out, most of the money supply is created by banks who provide loans through partial reserve system.

IE: Start with &#036;100 dollars printed by the state. This money goes into a bank deposit. The bank lends out &#036;95 dollars as a loan. Now we have one &#036;100 bank deposit plus one &#036;95 loan in another bank deposit or &#036;195


Is money more valuable than labour? - Only use-value money has is the exchange value it posseses. Labor&#39;s use value is its ability to create values in general.

One is not more &#39;valuable&#39; than another as WAGES are merely Labour Power expressed in the form of money. But the previous post is correct in suggesting that money and labour power have different use values


Labour for money, is this a fair exchange? - Labor is a commodity and money is commodity. When you sell your labor you are reproducing yourself as a commodity, and money serves for that reprodution. It is always enough to ensure that reprodution, but nothing more.

Labour and Labour power are two different things. This is where Marx was able to take the analysis of Ricardo and Smith to the next level. The exchange of money for labour power (the commodity representing the ability to work) is assumed to be traded at value under perfect competition. (under situations of monopoly, its possible for unequal exchange to occur) Profit doesn&#39;t arise from paying workers below value for their labour power, but rather the fact that the price of labour power is less than the value generated by their labour. This difference is appropriated by the capitalist as surplus value.


Why does money exist? - Again, to simplify exchange of commodities.

Thats part of the answer. With the development of commodity production and specialization, barter no longer was effective, money was required to facilitate the exchange.


Why is labour the cheapest commodity if labor creates values?

Because the value of labor is equal to the value of the commodities necessary to reproduce labor, not the value created by the labor. This is elementary Marxist economics.

Thats sort of close. The value of LABOUR POWER (not labour) is equal to the value of commodities necessary to reproduce the labouring class, not the value created by labour.

[Dewolfemann]

Seems to be some confusion about the difference between labour and labour power and the functions of money


From Activist&#39;s Guide to Political Economy (http://www.activistsguide.com)
What is Labour Power

Unless you lay on the beach all day receiving dividend cheques in the mail,
chances are you are one of the majority of people who have to work to survive.
People have always preformed labour. But only under capitalism did the ability to
work itself become a commodity that can be bought and sold.

Labour power then, is the commodity which represents the capacity or ability to
work.

Exchange Value of Labour Power
Labour power (capacity to work) like every commodity, has exchange value and a
price and the price of labour power known as a wage.

A workers ability to perform labour (labour power) can be sold by the hour for
hourly paid workers, or by the month or year for those paid on a salary or by the
task those paid on a piece rate.

And like all other commodities, the value of labour power is determined by the
amount of socially necessary labour time required to produce it.

What goes into producing a worker? To produce labour power requires
commodities to keep workers in a capacity to work, produce a future generation
of workers and provide necessary training required for the job.

These are items like food, shelter, clothing and expenses related to raising and
educating children. What is considered necessary varies according to the level of
class struggle. What is considered necessary in one country may be considered a
luxury in another.

Use Value of Labour Power
Not only do all commodities, have exchange value, they also have use value.
Labour power is no exception.

As for Money


From Activist&#39;s Guide to Political Economy (http://www.activistsguide.com)

What is Money?

Origin of money

Money has not always existed. There was a time when people had no use for
money at all&#33; Simple barter was used for most of human history before money.
Barter is the exchange for one good directly for another. You probably did this
on the playground as a child exchanging your milk for someone’s apple juice.
Barter is not very effective.

If you want to trade milk for someone’s apple juice, it only works if the people
with apple juice wants good that you are offering.

Barter works ok in primitive communal societies with few types of commodities,
but with the development of commodity production and specialization, barter no
longer was effective, money was required to facilitate the exchange.

Functions of Money
In capitalist society money serves the following functions:
1. Measure of value
2. Medium of exchange
3. Means of payment
4. Means of accumulation
1. Measure of Value

Walking through a grocery store it’s very unlikely you will see signs advertising
how much socially necessary labour time was used to produce the fruit and
vegetables.

Before a commodity can be bought or sold its value must be measured and
expressed in money.

Price is just the exchange value of a commodity in terms of money. Every
commodity has a price because every commodity has an exchange value.

2. Money as a Medium of Exchange
If you owned a lemonade stand on the side of the road, you would not be selling
lemonade just to get green paper, but to purchase either more lemons or maybe
the latest comic book.

Money is not the final goal in this case; it’s just a link between the sale of
lemonade and a later purchase.

Start with Lemonade-Get Money-Purchase a Comic Book

or in general

Commodity-Money-Commodity

3. Money as a Means of Payment

It is possible to buy a commodity without any cash available. Commodities are
often purchased or sold on credit. If a purchase is made that the buyer will pay
for later, money serves as the means of payment for this repayment.

Rather than being directly involved in the transaction, money is used later as a
means of repayment. Personal cheques work in this way as do most financial
loan transactions and credit cards.

4. Means of Accumulation

You can accumulate wealth in any commodity but money serves as the most
effective way to accumulate wealth.

It’s easier to accumulate wealth in money rather than another commodity, such
as salmon. It should be obvious why salmon is not a good commodity to
accumulate wealth in. Over time, salmon rapidly deteriorates in value and smells
absolutely terrible.