ANIMAL FARM

[Freiheit]

i just finished reading 'animal farm' by george orwell. orwell is a democratic socialist with sympathy for trozky (he wasnt a trozkyist), and he was totally against totalitarianism (stalinism).
'animal farm' is the most famous by far of all twentieth-century political allegories. the story talks about the betrayed promise of the russian revolution.
'animal farm' is about revolting animals who kick the humans out and create animalism (humans are enemies and every animal is equal). it is an awsome book. read it.

i think:

Old Major = Karl Marx
Napoleon = Stalin
Snowball = Trozky
Pigs = Communist Party
Dogs = Red Army

does anyone know who (person or group) Boxer and Benjamin are standing for? or other similarities?

[Freiheit]

i forgot:

Moses = Religion
Humans = Capitalists (the class)

[libereco]

oh it was a long time since i read it.......

wasn't boxer the horse?
well i think the horse was the proletarian who really believed in the revelution and gave everything to make it work, but was just used by the pigs.

benjamin was the donkey?
i'm not sure who he would have been....the critical russians who didn't trust the revelution maybe.

and one more thing i remember is that the two neighbars represented hitler and churchhill or somehting, but i'm not sure anymore. :/

[El Commandante]

The two neighbouring humans did represent Hitler and Churchill and how Stalin attempted to make pacts. I cant remember the name of one of the pigs but he represented Molotov, the propaganda minister.

And Freiheit Orwell was a Trotskyite, he fought in the Spanish Civil War with the Trotskyites and he fled with them across country when Stalin's regiments tried to kill them.

[libereco]

another little bit of info about orwell:


Except for a brief period during the early 1930s, George Orwell did not regard himself as an anarchist, thought he was a libertarian socialist. In Spain he fought in the militia of the dissident Marxist POUM movement, but during the May days of 1937 in Barcelona this brought him into the fighting on the side of the anarchists against the Communists, and partly for this reason his writing on the anarchist aspects of Spain during the Civil War is both informed and sympathetic.

[Freiheit]

the foreword of the animal farm (at least my version), written by orwell's friend, reads that he liked trozky, but he was not a trozkyist.

anyway, he was a good man and animal farm is a fantastic book.

[El Commandante]

Oh well, I my copy of 1984 he writes an introduction for the book to be published in the Ukraine and it talks about his fight alongside the trotskyite, maybe his views changed? Who knows?

Any way he was a great man and the books that he had written are superb.

[Moskitto]

I always thought the Orwel was a Trot.

Snowball in Animal Farm is a lot better that Trotsky (Kronstadt) was in real life so that might be something to point towards him being a Trot.

Sorry I just read you post Freiheit and I think i'd have to agree with you.

(Edited by Moskitto at 12:29 am on Dec. 20, 2001)

[Freiheit]

i really like the idea how he wrote it. you can feel and see it so good.

[Italian Commie]

Phenomenal book, but it's very difficult sometimes to persuede people that it was NOT written against Communism per se, but rather against a sort of state-fascism (i.e. Stalinism) that developed in the Soviet Union after the death of Lenin (and some might argue before even), and also as a warning against the possibility of that happening everywhere that socialism was rising.

It is a wonderful piece of literature, that along with the other great book 1984. Those two together should be on everyone's "to read" list. :)

[Freiheit]

the town (trade etc.) symbolizes the western world, i guess and the windmill stand for stalin's 5 years plans.

[ArgueEverything]

orwell was not a trotskyist. he called himself a 'democratic socialist' and was a member of the british Independent Labor Party, which was moderately marxist. he DID fight alongside trotskyists and anarchists in the spanish civil war(the POUM militia, it was called) but that was a loose federation. he leaned towards anarchism at that time in his life, as you can see if u read his book 'homage to catalonia'. but he was never a trotskyist.

in fact if you read animal farm closely, you will find that he criticises snowball quite a bit, though less subtly than he does napoleon. dont he and the other pigs take the milk away and use it for themselves?

[Guest]

Although I enjoyed Animal Farm emmensly, it did much more harm then good, because it is interpreted as being against Communism, and used as ammunition by the morons I argue with.

My idiot friends who say that Communism "doesnt work" always use Animal Farm as a refrence, even though they have no idea what their arguing about. Fools.

[Guest]

Although I enjoyed Animal Farm emmensly, it did much more harm then good, because it is interpreted as being against Communism, and used as ammunition by the morons I argue with.

My idiot friends who say that Communism "doesnt work" always use Animal Farm as a refrence, even though they have no idea what their arguing about. Fools.

[Conghaileach]

I've always believed that Animal Farm was criticism of turning away from Socialism, not Socialism itself.

I actually had the bad luck of originally reading the book in school. The teacher just made it seem completely boring, but when I read it again alone I enjoyed it more. I still love 1984 more though.

Has anyone read Orwell's "Homage To Catalonia"? I haven't myself, but heard that it's good.

[Freiheit]

animal farm was written against stalinism and to support democratic socialism.
orwell as a strong socialist, did not really think that you can be agaisnt the ideals of socialism.

[Kez]

Old Major=Lenin
Snowball=Trot
Napoleon=stalin
Pigs=comsomol (sp)
Dogs = secret service
Neighbours = Hitler and Churchill
Boxer=worker
Benjamin= intelligensia, original communists
Moses=religion
Humans=capitalist
Thats saleperson guy=?

comrade kamo

[Taj]

I just started to read the book and think it's pretty good!

[Kez]

Burmese days is a pretty good read
Homage to Catalonia was a brilliant book

comrade kamo

[Freiheit]

Quote: from Guest on 7:32 am on Dec. 20, 2001
Although I enjoyed Animal Farm emmensly, it did much more harm then good, because it is interpreted as being against Communism, and used as ammunition by the morons I argue with.

My idiot friends who say that Communism "doesnt work" always use Animal Farm as a refrence, even though they have no idea what their arguing about. Fools.


animal farm is against capitalism as well, then it shows how unfair the farm under the control of the humans (capitalists).
if a capitalist argues with animal, he says that capitalism sucks and he is right for once.

[Supreme Regime]

We recently read animal farm in my english class, the whole class just laughed, they didnt look at the true meaning of it

[El Commandante]

Luckily my english class didn't read it, it would have really annoyed me if we did. It would have been disected and mutilated, I read it on my own and managed to get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

[Kez]

Ive read it 3 times, and everytime i learn summit new of life

comrade kamo

[Zippy]

To add to the list of characters, Molly (the horse) is a prostitute. A very crude use of satire - she looks pretty and takes lumps of sugar as payment so the humans can ride on her.

A very, very clever of use representation though.

Zippy.

[CimSaint]

We read Animal Farm in English last year, and the teacher did a good job not mutilating the message and bringing out what Orwell was trying to say. Of course, the class didn't give a flying fuck since it didn't have anything to do with the GAP, Abercrombie, pot, or the football game that week, but at least we went through it.

Anyway, the book is spectacular. He wanted to show people what the USSR was like long before the Cold War, and he did so perfectly. The guy was a hell of a writer and one of the few good, decent human beings that lived this century.

[Zippy]

Quote: from CimSaint on 9:26 am on Dec. 27, 2001
The guy was ... one of the few good, decent human beings that lived this century.
*whispers* Its 2001. */whispers*

Zippy.

[El Commandante]

Good one Zippy, I hadn't noticed that before you pointed it out. Hehehe.

[CimSaint]

uh, the last century then... and I thought I was anal.

[CimSaint]

uh, the last century then... and I thought I was anal.

[Zippy]

Quote: from CimSaint on 7:02 am on Dec. 29, 2001
... and I thought I was anal.
I wasnt being anal, i was just picking out people's small mistakes to make myself look big and clever.
Did it work ?

Zippy.

[Kez]

of course comrade zippy

LONG LIVE ZIPPY

FANTASTICOLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

comrade kamo

[Zippy]

Are you patronising me ?

If so, i will put you in a truck and send you to the glue factory.

Zippy. :)