Would you consider these fascist?

[Revalation]

I was arguing with a friend of mine yesterday because he believes that the black panthers wer'nt a racist organisation but surly the way they blamed there problems mainly on the white man and the fact that they would not admit any1 to the party who was'nt black is enuff to call them racists in my book they do what alot of white power claims to do not so much want rid of other races just to look after their own. And people in here have the rap group dead prez pegged as leftist hip hop when they are infact also racist using words like cracker and uncle tom what is the diffrence between that and Ian Stuart including the word nigger in his song? Can you look over these things if they seem to tick all other box's required for an anti-captialist? because I cant. While these people mentioned above claim to be countering racism they are infact just plain old counter racist. What is every1 elses view on this?

[Pirate Utopian]

the black panthers were not racist, Huey P. Newton even spoke against people who blame everything on whites
Huey P. Newton Interview 1968 (http://www.hippy.com/php/article.php?sid=76)

Originally posted by Huey P. Newton
You can see that in statements until recently black people who haven't been enlightened have defined the white man by calling him the "MAN". "The Man" is making this decision, "The Man" this and "The Man" that.
The Black Panthers also worked with mostly non-black groups like the Yippies, Gay Liberation Front, Young Lords Party and SDS.
Dead Prez uses the term Crackers in the case of oppresor it comes from the time of slavery where the whips where cracked against blacks, this became a negative term towards whites because the whipcrackers were white, but i dont think DP uses it that way.

[Comrade Marcel]

To be a racist one has to insist their are biological differences that can categorize people of different ethnicities, nationalities, skin colour or whatever as a race.

Black Panthers simply pointed out white's as the oppressor. That is not racism. Only allowing Blacks to join is called community organizing.

[EwokUtopia]

Also one must remember that these are African-American perspectives, and the USA has a comparatively radical take on race than other places in the world. When I visit the US, or even watch American news, I am shocked to see how much of a racial divide is present in the US. If you see a really expensive car in the states, you can bet the driver is white. White Americans have little shame conversing about their fears of Blacks "Whom they delicately reffer to as African-Americans while making their racist paranoia's apparent". This is not to say that racism is not a problem in Canada, it is a very large problem which we must deal with as soon as possible, but it is so much more blatant and the disparity of races is so much greater in the US.

I am not trying to say my country is perfect, or even good, we have huge problems about the way we treat the indigenous people here, but as bad as it is here, I am still shocked by its blatantness just a few hundred km to the south. I am not trying to negate the problems of Canada by saying the Americans are worse, I recognize a huge amount of Canadian problems we must deal with, but the Black Panthers are a quintessentially American Party, dealing with the racist issues of the US, which are different, and comparatively more severe than much of the rest of the world. For instance, watching CNN one day I heard people broadcasting on international television that "The blacks are the racists, you wont find WET on TV, and all victims of modern racism are white". First of all, Holy Shit, this is on National TV, you dont see this on Canadian news ever, not to say Canadian news is perfect, or, again, even good. Secondly, white people had better be thankful that there is no white equivelant to BET, because a WET would be owned by blacks and continually perpetuating negative stereotypes of whites, pretty well the exact reverse of the white owned BET.

Also, definitions of white/black colour-coded race do not exist everywhere (though they certainly do in Canada, the US, and much of the west). Take for instance Malcolm X's travel to Makkah. When Youtube is working (its being a sketchbag right now) there is a video of him describing how race was not viewed as relevant in Makkah, and how people who in the US would be defined, and define themselves as White or Black, simply saw themselves as humans. Race is not universal, many people in Brazil who are identified as White there would be viewed as Black in the US. Part of the problem of American racism is that it is very puritan in its definitions. But I suppose thats what happened when people made race up 5 centuries ago.

Such engrained myths are hard to rid ourselves [all humanity] of, but the effort must be made. Simply ignoring race wont make it go away unless you can get everyone to do it for at least one generation. That being said, I wonder if thats possible......But until the unlikely and utopian event that that happens, we need to work while recognizing race in order to close the gaps of disparity.

[Jude]

I cannot agree with you on the admission of members based on race, Comrade Marcel. I believe that this 'community organising' is just a means of sugar-coating racial segregation.

[Pirate Utopian]

racial segragation?, please!.....
they worked with mostly white groups and latino groups.
the black panthers focused on issues concerning black communities wich is why only blacks joined

[Jude]

Actually I was refering to racial and religious segregation in Nazi Germany, USA, South Africa under Apartheid...

This 'community organising' bullshit is just another 'Seperate but Equal' phrase. And we all know how 'Equal' the Hedge of Bitter Almonds was...

[Pirate Utopian]

how is that related to the panthers?
if you read thier article on wiki you'll see that they later did allow whites and other non-black to join

[RASHskins]

He backed it up well about the alliances with other party's but if a serious revolution is too take place we need one unified party alliances can be broken alot easier. The part about the black man regaining is mind a nd the white revolutionary striving to regain his bdoy is ana amazing anology brilliant.

[RASHskins]

I liked huey's comment on before we can join in one party with other races we need to solve the unity problem in the black community. How very true that is jsut think of today with all the rap stars that glorify violence, and basically stand against everythign th black panthers stand for. I also don't think that the interview had very good questions. So many of the questions were just how will this affect the white people or white revolutionary's. The question's were so focused on that you could tell that huey was getting annoyed.

[RNK]

Those typifying racial segregation and the superiority of their race did not do so because of any credible oppression of the other race in question. It's different if blacks create a black-only Party, because they are not doing so in an attempt to further oppress white people. They are doing it as a reaction to the very specific oppression their race has felt for hundreds of years.

[Chrisso]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 17, 2007 05:59 pm

Black Panthers simply pointed out white's as the oppressor. That is not racism. Only allowing Blacks to join is called community organizing.
Don't wanna tread a line here; but when Whites create White only orgs. it's defined as racialism? I see the difference between the NAACP and the KKK of course, but not all White groups are racist. For example Schools often hold heritage days, but Whites are selected as the only ones who may NOT host a stand.

Being proud of European culture isn't racist in any way, just as being proud of African, Asian, Native American or Hispanic traditions isn't.

[fashbash]

If you've not already, read Malcom X's autobiography. Undoubtedly a great man, but a hateful racist. And though he was charismatic and intelligent, he was quite naive in many ways.

[RNK]

Being proud of your culture is fine. But using that pride as an excuse to oppress, exploit or subject other cultures to discrimination is not fine. And like I said it is completely dependant on the historical facts of the situation. For instance, when a university comes along with a tuition offer only available to blacks, they are doing so because it is a historic fact that blacks have a much harder time getting into university than whites. When a university comes along and offers a special tuition to whites, you have to ask, why? Is it hard for whites to get a scholarship? No. The vast majority of scholarships already go to whites. Is it because the education system is biased against whites? No.

If an organization creates a policy of only allowing blacks to join, is it because they want to discriminate against whites? No. It is because there are already countless whites-only organizations, or organizations which are heavily skewed in the favour of whites, and by creating a black-only organization, it allows them the freedom of expressing their culture without the fear of some whites coming along and enforcing their pro-white ideology on them. For most blacks, organizations like the BPP are the only way they can create cultural unity.

But when whites create a white-only organization, are they doing it to defend against a society with an overwhelming non-white majority? No. Are they doing it because there is an anti-white bias in their country? No.

Lastly, was the BET created to discriminate against whites, or was it created because the rest of the media is overwhelmingly white-oriented?

You have to look at the historical conditions and facts of the situation surrounding these types of people, groups, or organizations.