against me!

[redcannon]

they were my favourite band, and its really too bad that they chose money over music.
it was such angry anarcho-punk music that got the blood going. and just the other day they were on MTV. last year, they were the opening band for Green Day, along with Jimmy Eat World.


and myspace records? that's just pathetic

[ihaterockandroll]

They have completly sold out, doesn't mean Reinventing Axl Rose isn't one of the best albums ever though.

[redcannon]

i agree, that's probably my favorite album. It really is truly sad. i for one feel betrayed that i as a fan was traded for a dollar.

[Red October]

i've never really heard their stuff, but it sounds interesting. have they stopped their political activities and music now that they've sold out?

[redcannon]

not entirely, but all of their political stuff now really sucks and its that typical anti-bush shit that we hear way to much of these days.

all of their music sucks now, and their "political" stuff sucks way to much to pay attention to. It reminds me of American Idiot

[chimx]

I'm on the Against Me! webpage in the picture gallery.

[YSR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 11:57 pm
I'm on the Against Me! webpage in the picture gallery.
Kickass.

[Hate Is Art]

I saw play on the Disco Before The Breakdown tour and the Reinventing Axl Rose tour as well, in the back of grimey little pubs in Brigton, UK. I'm glad I've had that experience, they even released a music video for Don't Lose Touch, which is disgusting.

I'm interested in getting the 'we're never going home' DVD, as it apparently has footage of them talking to record labels and such. And I didn't know they supported Green Day, that's just worse then disgusting. For a band who wrote a song so anthemic about DIY Punk like Reinventing Axl Rose, so sell out in such a way just makes me angry. They were even good enough to get HUGE without selling out.

RIP.

[chimx]

I saw them eons ago at a small bar show before they hit the big time. I chatted with their singer about how the band felt about moving to bigger labels. He didn't strike me as having dollar bills in his eyes, just wanting to play for a wider audience.

Also, my friends band, ass-end offend, toured eastern europe like two years ago. against me had been playing with green day, but they stopped and played some shows with AEO in polish anarchist squats. I certainly doubt that greenday or jimmie eats world does that. I don't think they have lost touched with their fan base, so much as their fan base has lost touch with them for trying to evolve and experiment artistically.

My 2 pence.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 11:59 am
I don't think they have lost touched with their fan base, so much as their fan base has lost touch with them for trying to evolve and experiment artistically.

My 2 pence.
you're the first to suggest that joining mainstream pop-punk is experimenting artistically

[chimx]

Well from my talks with him, and my friends talks with him, it is my understanding that they are way into a certain country production quality. Before The Eternal Cowboy album came out, they mentioned to us how they were quite purposeful in their selection of recording studios--wanting the best country-style recording to go with their tunes. (I can't remember where, probably Nashville. A buddy of mine used to work recording studios in that city, mixed the dixie chicks. he said it sucked)

Having a bigger budget from a record label made that possible for them. While you as a fan may think of against me solely in terms of "their energy" or "stage performance", or what-have-you, I think they were quite serious about their band as an artistic endeavour and more than just poorly recording pub songs recorded on a 4-track.

[redcannon]

heres my standpoint:

yes, they kept that country-style sound going, but thats about it. Compare Reinventing Axl Rose to Searching For a Former Clarity, and just try to convince me that they had the same "artistic" intentions.

[chimx]

I never listened to Clarity, so I can't even say.

Let me ask you: if their intentions changed and they are only about the benjamins now, playing with greenday, etc. why are they still doing shows in polish squats? Here is a picture of 'em from my friend's band site:

Against me:
http://poisonedcandy.com/photos/033-AgainstMe.jpg

This is the building they are playing in:
http://poisonedcandy.com/photos/027-Fabryka,Warsaw,PL.jpg

Of course, that was in summer 2005. Have they changed in the past year and a half? Fuck if I know.

[redcannon]

dude, listen to Searching for a Former Clarity.

don't buy it, download it or something.

its fucking pathetic.

[Hate Is Art]

Well yeah they have, signed to a major label, doing all the thing they set out against doing in the song re-inventing axl rose.


While you as a fan may think of against me solely in terms of "their energy" or "stage performance", or what-have-you, I think they were quite serious about their band as an artistic endeavour and more than just poorly recording pub songs recorded on a 4-track.

But those poorly recorded songs on a 4-track where what the band was about, not supporting Green Day.

[redcannon]

listening to to Reinventing is funny because they did in fact go entirely against that. A part of me laughs, a part of me cries.


oh well.

[chimx]

nobody answered my question.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 06:34 pm
dude, listen to Searching for a Former Clarity.

don't buy it, download it or something.

its fucking pathetic.
Not playing the same style of music isn't the same as selling out. So they don't play the same shit as they did on RAR? Get over it, bands evolve musically over time.

And if I could get paid to do what I love and not have to work a shitty job, even if it meant alienating a bunch of snobby elitist "punks," you can sure as hell bet I would.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by black coffee black [email protected] 16, 2007 04:54 pm


And if I could get paid to do what I love and not have to work a shitty job, even if it meant alienating a bunch of snobby elitist "punks," you can sure as hell bet I would.
the central purpose of some of their work was how they would never want to sell out an disrespected bands that did so

quote (from Reinventing Axl Rose):


We want a band that plays loud and hard every night
That doesn't care how many people are counted at the door
That would travel one million miles
and ask for nothing more than a plate of food and a place to rest
They'd strike chords that cut like a knife
It would mean so much more than t-shirts or a ticket stub...

[chimx]

I repeat: how is playing for a bunch of squatters in poland contradictory to those song lyrics?

[redcannon]

you act like playing some free shows does them justice.
would i say hitler was a good sumeritan if instead of killing himself he helped an old jewish women across the street?

they don't play for music anymore.
they chose money over fans.
so fuck them

[bcbm]

Originally posted by redcannon+January 16, 2007 06:57 pm--> (redcannon @ January 16, 2007 06:57 pm)
black coffee black [email protected] 16, 2007 04:54 pm


And if I could get paid to do what I love and not have to work a shitty job, even if it meant alienating a bunch of snobby elitist "punks," you can sure as hell bet I would.
the central purpose of some of their work was how they would never want to sell out an disrespected bands that did so

quote (from Reinventing Axl Rose):


We want a band that plays loud and hard every night
That doesn't care how many people are counted at the door
That would travel one million miles
and ask for nothing more than a plate of food and a place to rest
They'd strike chords that cut like a knife
It would mean so much more than t-shirts or a ticket stub... [/b]
Again, just because they changed their musical style and make more money because more people like them doesn't really make them sell-outs, since they obviously aren't in it completely for the money, as proven by their playing of free shows.


they don't play for music anymore.
they chose money over fans.

How the fuck do you know?

[redcannon]

Originally posted by black coffee black [email protected] 16, 2007 05:20 pm

Again, just because they changed their musical style and make more money because more people like them doesn't really make them sell-outs


you know, i'm pretty sure thats exactly what makes them sell outs.

also, they didn't really gain any new fans, they just pissed off their old ones

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by redcannon+January 17, 2007 01:57 am--> (redcannon @ January 17, 2007 01:57 am)
black coffee black [email protected] 16, 2007 04:54 pm


And if I could get paid to do what I love and not have to work a shitty job, even if it meant alienating a bunch of snobby elitist "punks," you can sure as hell bet I would.
the central purpose of some of their work was how they would never want to sell out an disrespected bands that did so

quote (from Reinventing Axl Rose):


We want a band that plays loud and hard every night
That doesn't care how many people are counted at the door
That would travel one million miles
and ask for nothing more than a plate of food and a place to rest
They'd strike chords that cut like a knife
It would mean so much more than t-shirts or a ticket stub... [/b]
You should read my signiture line, it is a quote from the Clash and it is, when it comes to music, nearly always true.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church".

[Pawn Power]

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church".

Is that your own quote? I don't think it is always true but I like the sound of it...the fucking nuns and all. :lol: I will probably borrow it.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 07:43 pm
you know, i'm pretty sure thats exactly what makes them sell outs.

So in order to "not sell out," a band can't evolve musically? They must have sold out well before RAR, since on their first album they played buckets and used a recorder made of twigs and dirt and they actually had a studio and instruments on RAR!

And I'm pretty sure making more money isn't a crime. Being poor and shit might be "punk as fuck," but really poverty is shit and like I said, being able to make a living off of playing music instead of working some dead-end job is something I can't see anybody but the most ****ish elitist opposing.


also, they didn't really gain any new fans, they just pissed off their old ones

If you say so. :rolleyes:

[Hate Is Art]

How can you say they haven't sold out? They have gone against everything they stood for, in order to make money.

Selling Out, From The Oxford English Dictionary.
2: A sale of a business or company. • A betrayal of one's principles

They've sold out. Get over it.

[chimx]

HOW have they "betrayed" their principles?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 17, 2007 11:29 am
How can you say they haven't sold out? They have gone against everything they stood for, in order to make money.
How? They still continue to support leftist-anarchist politics and do what they can to interact with their fan base, including playing free shows. I don't think they ever said they entirely opposed being on a major label.

Every time an anarchist band gets popular, all of the fans throw up their arms and get all frantic, which makes me wonder how they expect anything to happen... will you throw a shit fit if anarchism ever became popular too? :rolleyes:

[Hate Is Art]

HOW have they "betrayed" their principles?

GARH. I have nothing against them experimenting a new musical direction away from Folk Punk towards a more generic rock sound, but by signing to a major label, supporting Green Day and recording a music video for myspace (urgh.) They have changed from their earlier days when they'd travel 'one million miles and ask for nothing more then a plate of food and a place to rest'

[cumbia]

For the record Im an acquitance of Aganist me! and they have always been about DO it yourself culture, and its out of their hands people are all over them. They didnt sell out, they became popular. Also, considering their roots fromm tom being a broke drugged out anarcho-punk squatting and being homeless to having a stable life and making money and being out to support himself and the rest of the band its a good thing. Also, when you have big timees ceos throwing money millions of dollars at you and turning it down..thats not selling out. I think they still live in their same houses in gainesville and still go to shows as well, its not like their bathing in gold and coke. Give-em a break..Also, "selling out"? what are you in 8th grade?

[chimx]

Also, "selling out"? what are you in 8th grade?

I was guessing 9th.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 01:08 pm
"selling out"? what are you in 8th grade?
would you please provide a better term?

[chimx]

how about "making a living with what they love to do"

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 06:26 pm
how about "making a living with what they love to do"
Poser!

[Hate Is Art]

I'm not in the 9th grade, it just pisses me off when a band, who I thought were going to act differently from all those other bands who traded in their original fanbase for big dollars, even said they would. Have gone and done it.

I'd love it if they became huge, they were on their way to becoming huge, and could have still done it playing small shows and signed to a Independent label.

[chimx]

as i have already shown, they still do play small shows for their original fan base. they travel half way around the world to play anarcho-squats. obviously the only thing you have a problem with is that they are on a major label.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 04:26 pm
how about "making a living with what they love to do"
just like greenday and AFI are "making a living with what they love to do"?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 18, 2007 10:53 am
traded in their original fanbase for big dollars, even said they would. Have gone and done it.
They didn't trade them, its just that the "original fanbase" consisted of elitist punk ****s who can't stand a band they like being popular and so abandoned the band, and proceeded to talk a great deal of shit.


I'd love it if they became huge, they were on their way to becoming huge, and could have still done it playing small shows and signed to a Independent label.

Most independent labels have deals with the majors anyway, and probably could not afford to have a higher profile band.

And how can a "huge" band with lots of fans play small shows? Think about it. :rolleyes:

[redcannon]

Originally posted by black coffee black [email protected] 18, 2007 03:40 pm


And how can a "huge" band with lots of fans play small shows? Think about it. :rolleyes:
how can you say that a band on MyspaceRecords and opened for Greenday last year didn't sell out. Think about it. :rolleyes:

[Comeback Kid]

They opened. OPENED, Meaning they are a still a support band, not the main act.

[analfilth]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 17, 2007 06:48 pm

HOW have they "betrayed" their principles?

GARH. I have nothing against them experimenting a new musical direction away from Folk Punk towards a more generic rock sound, but by signing to a major label, supporting Green Day and recording a music video for myspace (urgh.) They have changed from their earlier days when they'd travel 'one million miles and ask for nothing more then a plate of food and a place to rest'
I must say personally that I don't like the idea of them "selling out" either but how do you know that they have changed from their earlier days of travelling 'one million miles and asking for nothing more then a plate of food and a place to rest'? Just because they signed to a major label and support Green Day doesn't make them bad people or a bad band. They're just trying to make a living. With the price of fucking petrol these days (and then everything else), it's not easy travelling a million miles and playing cheap shows! I'd love to see all you do it, for the next 10 years or so. And honestly, as SHIT as Green Day are, what's so bad about Against Me supporting them? If they're getting more fans, who they can convey a message to, I don't see what the big problem is.
I reckon people should just quit their whining and remember a great band.

[redcannon]

the big thing here is the principle. they are no longer making music for music. they are making music for money. thus, selling out.


have any of you heard Searching for a Former Clarity? you'll see what i mean.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:33 am
they were my favourite band, and its really too bad that they chose money over music.
it was such angry anarcho-punk music that got the blood going. and just the other day they were on MTV. last year, they were the opening band for Green Day, along with Jimmy Eat World.


and myspace records? that's just pathetic
i met those guys. they actually just finished their new album at the studio I work at.

[redcannon]

go ahead, tell me that this is the revolutionary anarch-punk band that we all know and love.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=X9iTNNi8Gh0


this song is absolute shit, and if they didn't sell out then they have maybe 1/1000000 of the talent they had a few years ago.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 12:14 am
the big thing here is the principle. they are no longer making music for music. they are making music for money. thus, selling out.
How the fuck do you know?


this song is absolute shit, and if they didn't sell out then they have maybe 1/1000000 of the talent they had a few years ago.

They changed musical styles. That isn't selling out. Furthermore, just because you don't like it doesn't make it objectively bad.

[redcannon]

Originally posted by black coffee black [email protected] 29, 2007 08:31 pm


this song is absolute shit, and if they didn't sell out then they have maybe 1/1000000 of the talent they had a few years ago.

They changed musical styles. That isn't selling out. Furthermore, just because you don't like it doesn't make it objectively bad.
Are you saying that Dont Lose Touch was a good song? because i think Walking is Still Honest is a tad bit more charged a just a tad bit more meaningful. don't lose touch is about absolutely nothing and, as i said just before, if they did change their music style then it changed for the worst, and i don't think any band that truly cared about their music (and not their bank accounts) would make that decision.


they're trying to appeal to a market that doesnt believe in their old songs but for some reason loves their new stuff.


sounds to me like they sold out.

[bcbm]

Okay, so you don't like their new sound. Do you have any actual evidence, or are you just shit-talking based on that fact alone?

[redcannon]

how bout the fact that they were on MTV?

[bcbm]

That means they don't love making music?

[redcannon]

that means there using pop-punk shit to make money.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 08:12 am
that means there using pop-punk shit to make money.
Or that they were asked to go on and thought "Why the hell not?" And um, yes, they are using pop-punk shit to make money: making music is their JOB.

Or is going on TV not punx enuf lolz?!/

[redcannon]

music shouldn't be for bringing in an income, and even if it was they were doing well enough to support themselves.

[bcbm]

No, many things shouldn't, but that's the world we live in and are trying to change. In the mean time, we all need to make money to survive and I'd rather do it making music I enjoy than as a fucking wage-slave.

And you know their finance situation? DIY punk tours don't make shit.

[redcannon]

i'm not implying that they should be wage slaves, but what they're doing now is usually the very system they are against, and so they may as well be agreeing with it.

and in any case, no amount of money is worth changing your music or music style

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:18 pm
i'm not implying that they should be wage slaves, but what they're doing now is usually the very system they are against, and so they may as well be agreeing with it.

and in any case, no amount of money is worth changing your music or music style
You still are operating under the assumption they changed their music for money. Their style was evolving before they became popular. :rolleyes:

[redcannon]

well, in any case, it evolved for the worst. in my opinion, they suck now and they should have stuck with the hard, fast, politically charged stuff they had.


this whole thing is just stupid, let's just let this thread die.

[bcbm]

I'm not saying it is good, just that I do not think they did it for money.

[redcannon]

and i suppose, comrade, that this is where you and i seperate in opinions. but can we agree, though, that in the end it really is just one band, and in the grand scheme of things many bands will turn out like them, whether they sold out or they just suck, and so it is not really worth arguing about?

i know that i'm the one who started this thread, but i was just pissed off and was blowing off steam. now i think its a dead topic, because neither of us will convince the other.

[Janus]

They used to be pretty good but then they sold out and the quality of their music started declining. Just check out their last album.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 11:47 pm
They used to be pretty good but then they sold out and the quality of their music started declining. Just check out their last album.
Read the thread dude, lolz.

[Janus]

Read the thread dude, lolz.
I read it.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 10:07 am
music shouldn't be for bringing in an income, and even if it was they were doing well enough to support themselves.
Ahh shit really? Maybe I should stop being a musician and audio engineer right now. So people can't make money playing music or they are sellouts?

I really hate when "punks" get all pissy when a band signs with a major. I am against myself signing with a major label. Not because of some stupid punk morals(I am not a punk). I don't want to sign with a major because I can make more money making my albums myself. If it costs me $1 to make each cd I can sell them for $10 and make a profit. With a major I would be getting a fraction of a dollar for every album sold. That said if they can sell enough albums to make money under a major good for them.

You see you are saying that they are sellouts.... as if you are not. You must realize that we are all hypocrites. All leftists or anarchists living under capitalism are hypocrites. We are perpetuating the system we oppose. I work at an oil distribution center and I indirectly perpetuate wars for oil, oil companies and capitalism. We are all wage slaves and against me! are no different. Just because they have found a way to get more out of the system does not make them what you refer to as "sellouts".

"Sellouts"? Please take off your studded jacket, dock martins and spike bracelet. It isn't amusing.

[redcannon]

i don't consider myself a punk, i just wear docs cause they suit me. punk kids piss me off to, thinking they can stop the system by ripping up their shirts, especially since they're a bunch of whitey middle class kids anyway who think they're being fucked over by someone even though they don't have jobs