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Karl Marx's Camel
14th January 2007, 19:17
Chavez builds 'socialist cities'

Nick Foster in Caracas and Tony Allen-Mills



IN a controversial attempt to turn Venezuela into a socialist utopia, President Hugo Chavez is planning to build a network of egalitarian communities without mayors or municipal governments. He declared last week that his new “socialist cities” would be run by “people power”.
Chavez told the Venezuelan national assembly that vast tracts of the country’s largely unpopulated interior would be used for the construction of new cities, each covering up to 100 square kilometres (38.6 square miles).



He gave few other details at swearing-in ceremonies after his recent re-election other than to advise his critics: “Those of you who want to know what type of socialism I have planned for Venezuela should read Marx and Lenin.”

The president’s plan was denounced by political rivals as a ploy to reduce the power of state governments that provide the main source of opposition to his increasingly autocratic regime. The new cities would be self-governing and beyond the jurisdiction of provincial governors.

The plan was also dismissed as a deluded attempt to re-create the socialist paradises promised by despotic regimes in the 20th century, with pitiful results.

“Chavez’s plan is to introduce a system similar to Pol Pot (the Cambodian Khmer Rouge leader),” warned Carlos Raul Hernandez, a political scientist. “When Chavez talks about people power, he means doing away with elected institutions and replacing them with groups of fanatics.”

Chavez was sworn in for a six-year term on Wednesday amid signs that he intends to cement his grasp on power with a series of constitutional changes and international alliances that are sure to aggravate his already strained relations with Washington.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran arrived in Caracas yesterday for discussions with Chavez on their deepening economic, political and military relationship. While some analysts have characterised Iran-Venezuela contacts as primarily intended to annoy President George W Bush, one Washington source said the White House was concerned at the potential for Iranian-backed terrorist groups to obtain a foothold in Latin America.

Washington is also worried that attempts to impose economic sanctions on Iran over its clandestine nuclear programme may be subverted by Venezuela, the world’s fifth largest oil producer.

“While Bush has been busy trying to take over the Middle East, America’s enemies have been moving their chips to our south,” said a former US military intelligence officer.

However, as oil prices remain high enough for Chavez to be insulated from the economic difficulties that afflict much of Latin America, profits have begun to fall in recent months.

“Chavez’s self-confidence has outgrown his momentary good fortune (from high oil prices),” said Michael Shifter of the Inter-American Dialogue policy group. “These latest moves may accelerate the implosion of a political system whose vulnerabilities are increasingly exposed.”


Additional reporting: Martin Arostegui

Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2546080,00.html)

loveme4whoiam
14th January 2007, 21:52
“While Bush has been busy trying to take over the Middle East, America’s enemies have been moving their chips to our south,” said a former US military intelligence officer.
Yet more evidence that the US still considers Latin America "their backyard". While I worry about any ties between a "socialist" country and an Islamic one, at the same time anything that further separates Latin America from the imperialists to their north is a good thing.

These "socialist cities" sound... interesting.

Karl Marx's Camel
14th January 2007, 21:58
Yes... Interesting..

AmerGuerilla
14th January 2007, 23:42
“Those of you who want to know what type of socialism I have planned for Venezuela should read Marx and Lenin.”

:ph34r: awesome :ph34r:

Phalanx
15th January 2007, 00:26
The only problem is if these cities are built over the ruins of rainforest. Creating a better society includes taking care of the environment.

Red October
15th January 2007, 00:39
hmm...who thinks these will succeed? they arent giving out details on how these will be run, but if they do succeed it sounds pretty sweet.

Nothing Human Is Alien
15th January 2007, 02:12
Sounds something like the "communes" of China.. we'll see how they look in practice, if they are formed..


one Washington source said the White House was concerned at the potential for Iranian-backed terrorist groups to obtain a foothold in Latin America.

:lol: Who was the "source"? Pat Roberston?? LOL

"[Chavez is] going to make Venezuela a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent" - Pat Roberston.

More Fire for the People
15th January 2007, 03:41
This is the stuff of the utopian socialists who came before Marx. However, I'm actually kind of interested in seeing how these will turn out. They may help to justify our cause in proving that communes are succesful in the same way that the Pacific Northwest cooperatives (http://www.amazon.com/Worker-Participation-Lessons-Workers-Northwest/dp/0871546566/ref=cm_lm_fullview_prod_8/002-7173897-0568807) proves the efficiency of cooperative production.

AmerGuerilla
15th January 2007, 03:54
hmm...who thinks these will succeed? they arent giving out details on how these will be run, but if they do succeed it sounds pretty sweet.

“Those of you who want to know what type of socialism I have planned for Venezuela should read Marx and Lenin.”

Hopefully

Jesus Christ!
15th January 2007, 06:14
I hate to say it but I think this is just a huge political move as the article accused. If he trusts " people power" so much to run things why doesn't he himself step down? This looks like a move to remove his enemies and take more power under the federal wing.

Janus
15th January 2007, 08:44
Hmm...we need more information about the structure and extent of these "cities" in order to really judge their effectiveness. If it's just going to consist of a few "communes" on an experiment level, then it's going to have very little effect whatsoever.


If he trusts " people power" so much to run things why doesn't he himself step down?
It seems to be an experiment, I doubt it's going to be effected on a massive scale.

Demogorgon
15th January 2007, 13:30
This sounds like a good thing to me. The trouble is a physical one though. There is a reason Venezuala's interior is largely uninhabited. It is very hard to build on. If they can get around that, that seems like a good thing to me.

This shows the Venezualan opposition for what it is though. Fearing popular sovereignty over their monopoly on political power and beureacracy.

Ol' Dirty
15th January 2007, 16:50
There's not much point in speculating what will happen with these new cities. We must wait for the idea to come to fruition and then judge.

An archist
15th January 2007, 20:24
One thing is weird though, why build new cities?
Why not simply remove authority city by city or town by town?
Unless, he's indeed trying to make camps for people that'll follow him without questioning.
But we'll see what the future brings, I'm still sceptical.

Dimentio
15th January 2007, 20:28
The Venus Project (http://www.thevenusproject.com)

Maybe Chavez should hire Jacque Fresco as his chief architect?

Louis Pio
15th January 2007, 21:54
Why not simply remove authority city by city or town by town?

Don't really know. But it could be because the current cities are not wellplaned and suffering from pollution.
Some of my friends passed out in a cab in Caracas because of the smog coming into the car, kinda nasty.

UndergroundConnexion
15th January 2007, 22:08
Chavez also said he considers himself in the Trotsky line.

1984
15th January 2007, 22:54
Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 15, 2007 12:39 am
hmm...who thinks these will succeed? they arent giving out details on how these will be run, but if they do succeed it sounds pretty sweet.
Well, once closed factories in Venezuela are now collectively owned by the workers, aren't they...?

which doctor
16th January 2007, 00:58
Originally posted by An [email protected] 15, 2007 03:24 pm
One thing is weird though, why build new cities?
Why not simply remove authority city by city or town by town?
Unless, he's indeed trying to make camps for people that'll follow him without questioning.
But we'll see what the future brings, I'm still sceptical.
Haha, if Chavez were to remove authorities and make things more democratic, then he would be the first one to go! I don't see that happening anytime soon.

bezdomni
16th January 2007, 02:19
IN a controversial attempt to turn Venezuela into a socialist utopia

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


What a joke of an article!

poetofrageX
16th January 2007, 02:19
this sounds nice, but i'm gonna maintain some skepticism until i get some more details on the exact stucture of these cities. sounds promising though

Red October
16th January 2007, 04:17
when are these supposed to be built and completed?

Luís Henrique
16th January 2007, 11:47
I don't think anything good can come out of such idea. Artificial cities aren't usually a good idea. Artificial ideological cities tend to be somewhat worse.

But I could be wrong, and it would be only the 342,985th time.

Luís Henrique

dogwoodlover
16th January 2007, 22:33
The essential point that will determine the success of this 'socialist revolution' is whether Chavez maintains his control over it (which I think he will), or whether the masses of working people take control of the revolution.

One will produce despotism, the other, liberation.

Ander
17th January 2007, 00:13
I'm certain many of you will jump down my throat for this but I am liking what I'm hearing from Venezuela. In my opinion, at the moment Chavez needs to continue to hold some form of control or else his "revolution" is going to go nowhere. He can guide it for the time being but he must let go when it is on a solid path and before there is a personality cult created around him.

piet11111
17th January 2007, 02:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2007 12:13 am
I'm certain many of you will jump down my throat for this but I am liking what I'm hearing from Venezuela. In my opinion, at the moment Chavez needs to continue to hold some form of control or else his "revolution" is going to go nowhere. He can guide it for the time being but he must let go when it is on a solid path and before there is a personality cult created around him.
indeed venezuela's swing to the left would be almost instantly defeated by the rightists as soon as chavez creates an opportunity (like stepping down) so that the rightists can step back in.

the things he does are promising but i am highly dubious that chavez is really a socialist.
for that he appeases the religious and capitalists too much but then again he might be doing that to prevent them from fighting him or leaving with venezuela's riches.

Orange Juche
17th January 2007, 05:10
I'm way more optimistic than I should be. But hey, it doesn't hurt anyone to be optimistic... at least, in this situation.